[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
facing the same “can’t win the big one” labels that Peyton Mannig has (unfairly) dealt with his entire career. [/quote]
I’d say… It’s very fair to mention that. Without question.[/quote]
I’m not sure how it’s unfair either. It’s a pretty accurate assessment I think. [/quote]
I mean dude is a lock Hall of Fame’r no question. One of the best of all time, without question. Got his ring…
However to ignore his playoff record or say it is unfair… No way. Particularly the last two years, he had stud teams.
Best “football player” is LT. Fuck all those offensive players.*
*Dion Sanders didn’t like tackling people, so you just can’t call him the best “football player.” You just can’t.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
When you start talking about greatest player every I think you have to look at the talent gap between them and the next best person at their position. And Good Lord at guy saying Jerry Rice doesn’t count and then picking Elway. WTF.
Brady finally winning a Superbowl as more than a game manager this year and Peyton blowing one with a good D is starting to sway me on that conversation a little bit. But I would still probably pick Johnny U because of his ability in his era as my best qb. And the biggest gap between a position and the next best player at that position would be Reggie White.
Reggie White is my GOAT player, with Johnny U and Jim Brown getting honorable mentions. [/quote]
Thread should be best player since 2000. A lot of the members here probably have no real idea about how good Unitas, White, Butkus, or Brown were. People talk about Staubach but how many really watched him? I always ask “real” Cowboy fans if they know who got the safety when they beat Detroit 5-0 in the playoffs? Only real fans know.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
Butkus[/quote]
Now he was a football player. If he had the same physical tools LT had, he’d be my pick.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
facing the same “can’t win the big one” labels that Peyton Mannig has (unfairly) dealt with his entire career. [/quote]
I’d say… It’s very fair to mention that. Without question.[/quote]
I’m not sure how it’s unfair either. It’s a pretty accurate assessment I think. [/quote]
I mean dude is a lock Hall of Fame’r no question. One of the best of all time, without question. Got his ring…
However to ignore his playoff record or say it is unfair… No way. Particularly the last two years, he had stud teams. [/quote]
Agreed. Something that should be taken into consideration (and I have no idea how you’d do this really) would be to determining how many of those playoff losses he should shoulder. For example, the year the Ravens beat Denver and ended up winning the Super Bowl, a bone head play by a CB allowed the Raven’s to win that game. It wasn’t Manning’s fault at all. Really he had done enough to win that game, but it counts against him anyway. However, did he make a mistake earlier in the game that had he not made they would of won? I’ve no idea, point being it’s convenient to pin the blame for losses on a qb, but harder to really pin it to them in most cases.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[/quote]
Not even that many 15 yarders in today’s NFL on that reel. Dude was a monster.
I bet Belichick had a hardon every single day driving to work during those Giant’s years.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
facing the same “can’t win the big one” labels that Peyton Mannig has (unfairly) dealt with his entire career. [/quote]
I’d say… It’s very fair to mention that. Without question.[/quote]
I’m not sure how it’s unfair either. It’s a pretty accurate assessment I think. [/quote]
I mean dude is a lock Hall of Fame’r no question. One of the best of all time, without question. Got his ring…
However to ignore his playoff record or say it is unfair… No way. Particularly the last two years, he had stud teams. [/quote]
Agreed. Something that should be taken into consideration (and I have no idea how you’d do this really) would be to determining how many of those playoff losses he should shoulder. For example, the year the Ravens beat Denver and ended up winning the Super Bowl, a bone head play by a CB allowed the Raven’s to win that game. It wasn’t Manning’s fault at all. Really he had done enough to win that game, but it counts against him anyway. However, did he make a mistake earlier in the game that had he not made they would of won? I’ve no idea, point being it’s convenient to pin the blame for losses on a qb, but harder to really pin it to them in most cases. [/quote]
Just like POTUS. You get the glory when you win, eat the shit when you lose. It’s part of the position. Anyone that wants to bitch about it, should play Wideout or Safety.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
facing the same “can’t win the big one” labels that Peyton Mannig has (unfairly) dealt with his entire career. [/quote]
I’d say… It’s very fair to mention that. Without question.[/quote]
I’m not sure how it’s unfair either. It’s a pretty accurate assessment I think. [/quote]
I mean dude is a lock Hall of Fame’r no question. One of the best of all time, without question. Got his ring…
However to ignore his playoff record or say it is unfair… No way. Particularly the last two years, he had stud teams. [/quote]
Agreed. Something that should be taken into consideration (and I have no idea how you’d do this really) would be to determining how many of those playoff losses he should shoulder. For example, the year the Ravens beat Denver and ended up winning the Super Bowl, a bone head play by a CB allowed the Raven’s to win that game. It wasn’t Manning’s fault at all. Really he had done enough to win that game, but it counts against him anyway. However, did he make a mistake earlier in the game that had he not made they would of won? I’ve no idea, point being it’s convenient to pin the blame for losses on a qb, but harder to really pin it to them in most cases. [/quote]
Just like POTUS. You get the glory when you win, eat the shit when you lose. It’s part of the position. Anyone that wants to bitch about it, should play Wideout or Safety. [/quote]
Of course, completely agree.
[quote]aliceinchains wrote:
This is my top 5
- Barry Sanders
- Jerry Rice
- Lawrence Taylor
4a. Joe Montana
4b. Tom Brady[/quote]
I might catch shit for this, but Emmitt Smith > Barry Sanders. I know he had a better team, but when it comes down to it. If it’s forth and one, at the goal line to win the SB, given equal lines in front, I’d prefer Smith, and hand it to him before Sanders.
Sanders was an amazing talent, amazing. But he’d lose 5, gain 12 type runner. Smith was smaller and would still take the rock and run down hill into the line if need be.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
If it’s forth and one, at the goal line to win the SB, given equal lines in front, I’d prefer Smith, and hand it to him before Sanders.
[/quote]
What about 2nd and 1.
Fuck.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
If it’s forth and one, at the goal line to win the SB, given equal lines in front, I’d prefer Smith, and hand it to him before Sanders.
[/quote]
What about 2nd and 1.
Fuck. [/quote]
I throw a high percentage pass there, and target the undrafted FA rookie that has been fucking up my passing game since half time.
Well it depends on what line Emmitt smith is running behind cowboys or the lions. Emmitt Smith also had the best blocking fullback ever. If Smith played anywhere else he is just an average player. I wish barry could have gone to another team in 99.
[quote]aliceinchains wrote:
If Smith played anywhere else he is just an average player. I wish barry could have gone to another team in 99.[/quote]
While I think this is a fair thing to assume, Smith didn’t play for anyone else, lol.
Still, all things equal, 4th and 1 to win the biggest game of your career, you handing it to Smith or Sanders? Everyone knows you are running it… Who do you give it to there?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]aliceinchains wrote:
If Smith played anywhere else he is just an average player. I wish barry could have gone to another team in 99.[/quote]
While I think this is a fair thing to assume, Smith didn’t play for anyone else, lol.
Still, all things equal, 4th and 1 to win the biggest game of your career, you handing it to Smith or Sanders? Everyone knows you are running it… Who do you give it to there?[/quote]
Jamaal Lewis 
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]aliceinchains wrote:
If Smith played anywhere else he is just an average player. I wish barry could have gone to another team in 99.[/quote]
While I think this is a fair thing to assume, Smith didn’t play for anyone else, lol.
Still, all things equal, 4th and 1 to win the biggest game of your career, you handing it to Smith or Sanders? Everyone knows you are running it… Who do you give it to there?[/quote]
William “Refrigerator” Perry!
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
facing the same “can’t win the big one” labels that Peyton Mannig has (unfairly) dealt with his entire career. [/quote]
I’d say… It’s very fair to mention that. Without question.[/quote]
I’m not sure how it’s unfair either. It’s a pretty accurate assessment I think. [/quote]
I mean dude is a lock Hall of Fame’r no question. One of the best of all time, without question. Got his ring…
However to ignore his playoff record or say it is unfair… No way. Particularly the last two years, he had stud teams. [/quote]
Agreed. Something that should be taken into consideration (and I have no idea how you’d do this really) would be to determining how many of those playoff losses he should shoulder. For example, the year the Ravens beat Denver and ended up winning the Super Bowl, a bone head play by a CB allowed the Raven’s to win that game. It wasn’t Manning’s fault at all. Really he had done enough to win that game, but it counts against him anyway. However, did he make a mistake earlier in the game that had he not made they would of won? I’ve no idea, point being it’s convenient to pin the blame for losses on a qb, but harder to really pin it to them in most cases. [/quote]
Just like POTUS. You get the glory when you win, eat the shit when you lose. It’s part of the position. Anyone that wants to bitch about it, should play Wideout or Safety. [/quote]
Of course, completely agree. [/quote]
With that said, you put Peyton with the Pats D’s that Brady played with when he won his first 3 at that point in their careers and you probably don’t even have a debate on GOAT.
My evidence:
