And what was shown in that video was “movie martial arts” not reality martial arts; so if you aren’t advocating it, then don’t post videos that showcase movie martial arts as proof of what works.[/quote]
That’s EXACTLY what I was thinking. That Jackie Chan bullshit is useless.[/quote]
I would be pretty impressed if I saw a guy fight like Jackie Chan did in Legend of Drunken Master. That movie had some amazing fight scenes.[/quote]
The guy he fights in the end (the one in the white suit in the foundry) had some of the most impressive balance and leg speed/leg dexterity that I’ve ever seen.
Chan could do some crazy acrobatic moves in his prime and his pure athleticism was very impressive. I also think that being able to scale buildings, fences and pretty much any obstacle that was in his way like he does in the chase scenes in movies like “Rumble In The Bronx” or “Mr. Nice Guy” would be very valuable skills to have if you had to escape a bad situation. I also really respect his use (and creativity) in terms of using “improvised” weapons.
But that doesn’t mean that I’d suggest people try to emulate most of what he does if they were training for self defense.
[quote]sardines12 wrote:
I was listening to Joe Rogan podcast where he brought this video up and he had some really good points. You’re a tool if you’re training any combat sport or martial art for self defense. Most people will never get into a fight and the easiest thing to do is to avoid being in bad situations and bad places. [/quote]
With all due respect to Rogan, that’s a pretty stupid mindset to have. I’m all for avoiding bad situations, places and people and agree that that’s going to drastically cut down your chances of needing to defend yourself. But, that’s a very privileged standpoint he’s coming from since many people live in bad areas and pretty much find it impossible to not find themselves in bad situations or places from time to time.
And even if someone does a good job of avoidance, there is still the possibility of trouble finding you. Then you’ve gotta be able to do some conflict resolution, or yes even be able to physically defend yourself.
Rogan’s comment would be like me saying, “buying fire extinguishers, alarms, and insurance are stupid wastes of money. Most people will never have a fire in their home, and simply not leaving dangerous appliances on and unattended, not smoking cigarettes indoors, and not lighting candles are the easiest ways to avoid fires.” Which is all well and good, until someone actually does have a fire. Then they’re gonna wish that they had spent that money on those saftey measures. At best they may have lost some money that they’ll need to spend on repairs, at worst they may have lost invaluable things (like their own or a loved one’s life).
If other people want to take those kinds of risks, then that’s of course their choice and no one should try to force them into taking those precautions. But calling them “tools” for doing so is just a bunch of self righteous crap.
I for one would rather be safe than sorry. Others can do as they please.
And Rogan’s comments are pretty much entirely male oriented.
Does Rogan realize that the majority of rapes that occur in this country are date rapes or rapes performed by an acquaintance of the victim? Does he expect women to not date at all, or to completely isolate themselves in order to avoid the possibility of being raped?
So are women who take martial arts or combat arts to defend themselves “tools” for doing so?
I realized about a year ago that Joe Rogan is both hypocritical and a dumbass. Don’t take anything he says seriously.
As for the topic of the “usefulness of kicks” in a “street” fight, I’m on the fence. On one hand, even a intermediate in kickboxing can deliver a fairly devastating low kick (if it’s not checked - and we’ll assume that the typical assailant you’ll encounter doesn’t know how to check) that could potentially deter or end a conflict.
On the other hand, high kicks are very high on risk vs reward. Most encounters don’t really have enough room to set it up properly, and if it get’s caught, you’re probably going to get spiked onto the ground. At such a range, why not just throw a solid set of punches to their jaw?
A good push kick might work to really send someone back and distance yourself but flying super ninja kicks are gonna get you killed. Plus like I said in an earlier thread mid kicks are the most dangerous kick for you to throw yourself. If it gets caught you are in some deep trouble.
if you want nasty try krav maga. if you want to really hurt him try escrima or arnis. you learn with knives and sticks then move to empty hand.
for immediate results get a brass knuckle belt buckle and carry it with you. when you hit him in the face or anywhere else twist your hand so you rip the flesh and tear muscle.
get a twine ring. it is a ring that the workers in textile mills used to wear to cut the string that was used to tie the rolls. get the type that is is worn facing toward the palm. it has a short(@1") hooked razorsharp blade. if you have to grapple with him it will slice him wherever you grab him.
you can find both at a decent size flea market.
the only pic I could find is the type worn like a regular ring.
You keep putting up vids of people doing bullshit things showing off so your last sentence doesnt add up. If you dont advocate people do unrealistic moves why keep showing them? That Swat vid had showing off to look good written all over it and the San Shou vid had people doing crazy moves so you are presenting unrealistic moves but then saying you dont do them.
And kicking in any combat situation is not always the best move. If it gets caught or you miss you are fucked. [/quote]
Sanshou is not “Bullshit” its basically kickboxing with takedowns and throws. I find it funny that some people on here are the first to claim Muay Thai as a good self defense practice but say Sanshou is bullshit…where theyre basically the same thing except Sanshou ADDS takedowns and throws. If you call Sanshou “Unrealistic” you might as well say the same for judo, Muay thai and boxing because Sanshou encompasses all those techniques. Except for boxing, Muay thai and judo both evolved from kung fu/sanshou. So your point to me is unwarranted and your just arguing for the sake of arguing. Self Defense is more than just two fists. If your not willing to believe that thats fine. I’ll have to respectively disagree with you and everyone else. Besides this discussion is getting a bit one-sided.
This Post also leads me to believe you didn’t read the previous pages of the thread to see what exactly was posted and said…correct me if im wrong.
You’d have to be a little void of self defense knowledge to say what the Taiwanese police are doing in the vid is perfect for you to do in a self defense situation. There were cameras there for…wait for it…TV. Of course they were showing off and doing things that provided little resistance from the atttacker. They were simply doing what most martial art schools call a DEMO. God forbid you get attacked you go ahead and do a backflip fly kick and you see what happens to you. The posting of the video was to demonstrate that kicking is effective in self-defense and even swat teams around the world employ kicking in their training. If anyone looks at that video and takes away from it that the Taiwanese swat team does backflip fly kicks on raids and rescues I think your problem lies a bit deeper.
Its actually really funny you post this. This clip is from the movie Never Back Down…well which is…A MOVIE…I know some friends who did this movie…it was filmed with a lot of local talent here in Fl.
The effect your going for by posting this flick is understandable, if the case was that I ever suggested doing a butterfly twist, backflips, one arm handstands and fly kicks for self-defense. Since thats not the case however to me this falls flat.
Go back and re-read all my posts. Not one has me suggesting doing movie martial arts to defend yourself. Don’t worry I won’t wait.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
if you want nasty try krav maga. if you want to really hurt him try escrima or arnis. you learn with knives and sticks then move to empty hand.
for immediate results get a brass knuckle belt buckle and carry it with you. when you hit him in the face or anywhere else twist your hand so you rip the flesh and tear muscle.
get a twine ring. it is a ring that the workers in textile mills used to wear to cut the string that was used to tie the rolls. get the type that is is worn facing toward the palm. it has a short(@1") hooked razorsharp blade. if you have to grapple with him it will slice him wherever you grab him.
you can find both at a decent size flea market.
the only pic I could find is the type worn like a regular ring.[/quote]
lol why go through all that trouble really…just carry a GUN.
If someone is asking for a whooping bad enough for me to wear that ring…this is probably more than just a one on one street confrontation.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
if you want nasty try krav maga. if you want to really hurt him try escrima or arnis. you learn with knives and sticks then move to empty hand.
for immediate results get a brass knuckle belt buckle and carry it with you. when you hit him in the face or anywhere else twist your hand so you rip the flesh and tear muscle.
get a twine ring. it is a ring that the workers in textile mills used to wear to cut the string that was used to tie the rolls. get the type that is is worn facing toward the palm. it has a short(@1") hooked razorsharp blade. if you have to grapple with him it will slice him wherever you grab him.
you can find both at a decent size flea market.
the only pic I could find is the type worn like a regular ring.[/quote]
lol why go through all that trouble really…just carry a GUN.
If someone is asking for a whooping bad enough for me to wear that ring…this is probably more than just a one on one street confrontation.[/quote]
most people that carry a gun have never killed anyone and will hesitate before using it and may fumble while getting it into position. you do that and you’ll most likely end up dead.
the ring and brass knuckles are also easier to conceal and fall into the nature of a fight easier. you grab and swing. if someone grabs you from behind in a choke the ring will split the back of an arm open easily. most brass knuckles have a side bump that can be used to rake or hammer.
even steel toed shoes give you an advantage. when I was younger and worked as a bouncer I broke up a lot of fights by simply kicking the idiots in the ankle or shin. if you feel that you may have to fight you go in to win. if I have to fight someone on the street it is a life or death situation. I will use or do whatever it takes to win.
I also find that capoeira gets a bad rap. Many people see the “art” form before they see the practical and discount it as a valid martial art. However, Capoeira at its base was a pretty brutal form of self-defense that marooned slaves used to escape their masters in Brazil. The dancing employed was simply triangle steps to establish moving to your own rythm…which confused slave owners. They also mainly attack with Kicks, sweeps, takedowns and headbutts because slaves were usually shackled at the wrists.
The commercialized art form is pretty flamboyant, but strip that and get down to its pratical base and it’s pretty useful. That bullshit in movies like Never Back Down is what the art is depicted as…but its orginal purpose got the job done. The flamboyance was a means to cover the art as a dance and not a means of self-defense…after a while the slave owners caught on but it proved to be effective in hiding their training.
Capoeira Contemporânea or Modern Regional is the style thats the most popular…which consists of the acrobatics and what not. The Orginal Capoeira called Regional Capoeira familarized by Reis Machado is more akin to the slavery style.
I too thought that Capoeira was just for movies. But when I studied it in College in my History of The Carribean and International Politics of Africa classes it was quite intriguing. It was cool how they used what they had at the time to defend themselves…which was mostly their feet.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
if you want nasty try krav maga. if you want to really hurt him try escrima or arnis. you learn with knives and sticks then move to empty hand.
for immediate results get a brass knuckle belt buckle and carry it with you. when you hit him in the face or anywhere else twist your hand so you rip the flesh and tear muscle.
get a twine ring. it is a ring that the workers in textile mills used to wear to cut the string that was used to tie the rolls. get the type that is is worn facing toward the palm. it has a short(@1") hooked razorsharp blade. if you have to grapple with him it will slice him wherever you grab him.
you can find both at a decent size flea market.
the only pic I could find is the type worn like a regular ring.[/quote]
lol why go through all that trouble really…just carry a GUN.
If someone is asking for a whooping bad enough for me to wear that ring…this is probably more than just a one on one street confrontation.[/quote]
most people that carry a gun have never killed anyone and will hesitate before using it and may fumble while getting it into position. you do that and you’ll most likely end up dead.
the ring and brass knuckles are also easier to conceal and fall into the nature of a fight easier. you grab and swing. if someone grabs you from behind in a choke the ring will split the back of an arm open easily. most brass knuckles have a side bump that can be used to rake or hammer.
even steel toed shoes give you an advantage. when I was younger and worked as a bouncer I broke up a lot of fights by simply kicking the idiots in the ankle or shin. if you feel that you may have to fight you go in to win. if I have to fight someone on the street it is a life or death situation. I will use or do whatever it takes to win.[/quote]
Wow I def agree with this…Although Brass Knuckles are illegal nationwide I think
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Sanshou is not “Bullshit” its basically kickboxing with takedowns and throws. I find it funny that some people on here are the first to claim Muay Thai as a good self defense practice but say Sanshou is bullshit…where theyre basically the same thing except Sanshou ADDS takedowns and throws. If you call Sanshou “Unrealistic” you might as well say the same for judo, Muay thai and boxing because Sanshou encompasses all those techniques. Except for boxing, Muay thai and judo both evolved from kung fu/sanshou. So your point to me is unwarranted and your just arguing for the sake of arguing. Self Defense is more than just two fists. If your not willing to believe that thats fine. I’ll have to respectively disagree with you and everyone else. Besides this discussion is getting a bit one-sided.
This Post also leads me to believe you didn’t read the previous pages of the thread to see what exactly was posted and said…correct me if im wrong.[/quote]
I dont recall saying San shou is bullshit. I havnt insulted any system all I said was that you showed flashy vids but then say that you dont think they work. That is a confusing thing. Why show moves that dont work to show the legitimacy of a style. Wouldn’t showing vids of highly effective moves be better?
You are wrong I think I have been in this thread since it started. I am aware that you dont like that everyone isnt bowing down to San Shou saying its gods gift to self defense. you take this internet thing a little to personal.
I disagree. I never said anything to anyone about bowing down and accepting Sanshou as God’s gift to self-defense. I merely stated to the Op “This is what I currently practice give it a shot if you like it.” I defend the art I practice or have practiced. I think everyone is pretty much the same with that. Especially since the main tone of this thread has pretty much been boxing’s all you need. So no everyone isnt bowing down to Sanshou and they shouldnt be…I just want people to respect what it has to offer…just like any other martial art.
If someone says that something is disfunctional that I think is functional…im going to take up the other side of the debate cause I like intelligent conversation and debating…I think its cool. Trust me…this thread doesn’t keep me up at night. lol So no…Im not wearing my heart on my sleeve with this…I just like a good hearty debate.
Previously in the thread I also said that im open to whatever techniques and or styles that I can learn. I also said previously in the thread that after Sanshou/Wushu that I would move to learning Hapkido, and Pen chak Silat and possible more krav. Ive been the one saying this whole time for everyone to broaden their horizons and be open to all forms of self defense…so I don’t get where you think im raising one art above all others. You can learn from any art or form of althelticism to help yourself. This is also why I said you didnt read the thread.
The only Video that I posted of something that wasn’t practical at face value was the Tawianese Swat vid. You reference “VIDS” like I posted a bunch of videos with Jackie Chan in them or something. Every other video i posted was on pratical self-defense techniques that delt with Kickboxing or Street-defense.
Your plural use of Bullshit Vids implicates that the videos I posted of Kickboxing and Sanshou were Bullshit and impractical. Thas why I made the claim that Sanshou wasnt bullshit. Again, the only video I posted of “movie style martial arts” was the Swat video and that was to make a totally different point. So what Im saying is everything I posted was of stuff I thought of as practical at face value and the Tawianese vid was to make a point.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
if you want nasty try krav maga. if you want to really hurt him try escrima or arnis. you learn with knives and sticks then move to empty hand.
for immediate results get a brass knuckle belt buckle and carry it with you. when you hit him in the face or anywhere else twist your hand so you rip the flesh and tear muscle.
get a twine ring. it is a ring that the workers in textile mills used to wear to cut the string that was used to tie the rolls. get the type that is is worn facing toward the palm. it has a short(@1") hooked razorsharp blade. if you have to grapple with him it will slice him wherever you grab him.
you can find both at a decent size flea market.
the only pic I could find is the type worn like a regular ring.[/quote]
lol why go through all that trouble really…just carry a GUN.
If someone is asking for a whooping bad enough for me to wear that ring…this is probably more than just a one on one street confrontation.[/quote]
most people that carry a gun have never killed anyone and will hesitate before using it and may fumble while getting it into position. you do that and you’ll most likely end up dead.
the ring and brass knuckles are also easier to conceal and fall into the nature of a fight easier. you grab and swing. if someone grabs you from behind in a choke the ring will split the back of an arm open easily. most brass knuckles have a side bump that can be used to rake or hammer.
even steel toed shoes give you an advantage. when I was younger and worked as a bouncer I broke up a lot of fights by simply kicking the idiots in the ankle or shin. if you feel that you may have to fight you go in to win. if I have to fight someone on the street it is a life or death situation. I will use or do whatever it takes to win.[/quote]
Wow I def agree with this…Although Brass Knuckles are illegal nationwide I think[/quote]
not as a belt buckle. there are ways around things. straight razors might be illegal to carry but a hair trimming razor with a removable guard isn’t. that’s why I tell all the women I know to have one in their purse and show them how to hold it.
Hey man everyone is entitled to their own opinion…I am in know way twisting anyones arm. But if I can respectively state my point and at least get people to think about things from my point of view, I think thats a good start.
[quote]silverblood wrote:
if you want nasty try krav maga. if you want to really hurt him try escrima or arnis. you learn with knives and sticks then move to empty hand.
for immediate results get a brass knuckle belt buckle and carry it with you. when you hit him in the face or anywhere else twist your hand so you rip the flesh and tear muscle.
get a twine ring. it is a ring that the workers in textile mills used to wear to cut the string that was used to tie the rolls. get the type that is is worn facing toward the palm. it has a short(@1") hooked razorsharp blade. if you have to grapple with him it will slice him wherever you grab him.
you can find both at a decent size flea market.
the only pic I could find is the type worn like a regular ring.[/quote]
lol why go through all that trouble really…just carry a GUN.
If someone is asking for a whooping bad enough for me to wear that ring…this is probably more than just a one on one street confrontation.[/quote]
most people that carry a gun have never killed anyone and will hesitate before using it and may fumble while getting it into position. you do that and you’ll most likely end up dead.
the ring and brass knuckles are also easier to conceal and fall into the nature of a fight easier. you grab and swing. if someone grabs you from behind in a choke the ring will split the back of an arm open easily. most brass knuckles have a side bump that can be used to rake or hammer.
even steel toed shoes give you an advantage. when I was younger and worked as a bouncer I broke up a lot of fights by simply kicking the idiots in the ankle or shin. if you feel that you may have to fight you go in to win. if I have to fight someone on the street it is a life or death situation. I will use or do whatever it takes to win.[/quote]
Wow I def agree with this…Although Brass Knuckles are illegal nationwide I think[/quote]
not as a belt buckle. there are ways around things. straight razors might be illegal to carry but a hair trimming razor with a removable guard isn’t. that’s why I tell all the women I know to have one in their purse and show them how to hold it.[/quote]
Very Interesting! I’ve got cops as friends and family. They know I like brass knuckles and knives…they always warn me not to carry brass knuckles cause its a 3rd degree felony and such
