What is the best bet for a former fat kid trying to add lean mass while minimizing fat gain, or heaven willing, lose bodyfat %?
I’m currently 5’9", 155lbs down from my highest weight of 205. I still have some abdominal fat but small arms and legs (typical skinny fat). My diet is 100% clean, but I still gain fat REALLY fast even on a modest surplus of calories. I lift 4x’s a week and have PT for the Air Force 2x’s a week (a lot of running).
I’ve looked through the Anabolic Diet, Massive Eating, Temporal Nutrition, T-Dawg 2.0, and the new Build and Burn articles, but I can’t really figure out which one would be best.
Just pick one and go with it. Only you will be able to discover which one works best for you. If you’re going to hold out until you analyze it to death, you’ll be a fat boy again.
If you gain fat easily, then play with your carb intake. Dial it down until you don’t gain fat easily. Start with 1.25g/lb. protein, then figure in .5g/lb carbs and the rest from fat.
Cut carbs more on non-lifting days. You’re running a lot so that will kill a lot of calories and eat up some muscle as well. Plan ahead for your running days by carbing up a bit the night before then take it easy the day of.
Only you can really figure this stuff out. Trial and error.
I agree about messing around with carb intake to minimize fat gain… At 155 I would suggest eatting clean (Berardi style.) For starters What did you eat today? By the way I cringed when I read that you weighed 205 and your calling yourself a former fat boy.
Im in the same boat as you, but i hold all my skinny fat-ness in my stomach. you might wanna check out my thread in the bodybuilding section because i am trying to do the same thing as you.
I think it all boils down to knowing yourself best. I used to think a diet higher in fat for me was optimal because I was chubby as a little kid. To make a long story short though, higher fat diets always ran me down and made me feel quite lethargic. It’s taken me a while but I think I’ve personally learned that I’m not very efficient at oxidizing fat, and fat, not carbs for me leads to larger fat gains.
Make sure you correct your prior eating habits before you jump to any conclusions about your somatype.
[quote]jlats wrote:
I agree about messing around with carb intake to minimize fat gain… At 155 I would suggest eatting clean (Berardi style.) For starters What did you eat today? By the way I cringed when I read that you weighed 205 and your calling yourself a former fat boy. [/quote]
Yea I follow his 7 habits pretty much. I have his Metabolism Advantage book.
And trust me, 205-210 was ALL fat for me. I was a weak, lazy teenager. I admit it. VERY poor choices as a kid.
I’ve also read a lot of the stuff by Poliquin and how he recommends a long term low carb diet for the majority of the population. Also a lot of Chris Shugart’s articles (T-Dawg 2.0 and his FFB article). I guess that is the reason I’m stuck. Poliquin and Coach Thibs recommend low-to-no carbs nore more than 20g or so at a time, and Chris says breakfast and workout carbs in high doses.
Thanks to all the replies so far. I really appreciate all the input I can get.
I can tell you that right now I’m on a no/super low carb diet right now (as close as possible to the diet Thibs put Bartl on) and I’ve dropped about 14 pounds of fat/water in less than 2 weeks. Before I get beat up about how it’s not possible w/o losing muscle, my numbers in the gym have gone up on a few lifts and I can see immediate changes in appearance already.
I happen to be extremely insulin resistant (based on the bodyfat storage area analysis thingie) and educated guessing based on how easily I can gain a pound a week with a normal carb intake despite exercise and modest calories.
I’ve been dosing fish oil fairly heavily in hopes that it will, in fact, increase insulin sensitivity in conjunction with making the body more efficient and using stored fat as fuel.
That’s my experience w/ low/no carb and I have to say that I absolutely love it.
[quote]Jeffe wrote:
I can tell you that right now I’m on a no/super low carb diet right now (as close as possible to the diet Thibs put Bartl on) and I’ve dropped about 14 pounds of fat/water in less than 2 weeks. Before I get beat up about how it’s not possible w/o losing muscle, my numbers in the gym have gone up on a few lifts and I can see immediate changes in appearance already.
I happen to be extremely insulin resistant (based on the bodyfat storage area analysis thingie) and educated guessing based on how easily I can gain a pound a week with a normal carb intake despite exercise and modest calories.
I’ve been dosing fish oil fairly heavily in hopes that it will, in fact, increase insulin sensitivity in conjunction with making the body more efficient and using stored fat as fuel.
That’s my experience w/ low/no carb and I have to say that I absolutely love it.
[/quote]
Thank you for your reply.
The only thing I hesitate with about low carb is all the running I do, as Coach Thibs has said that anything above 130bpm is a no-no on low carb diets due to the energy system used. I thought about using a TKD type approach, but with the amount of carbs I’d get, I really wouldn’t be low enough to use fat as fuel during other points in the day.
you’re an athlete man. You need carbs. Cycle them on days you are not working out or doing less strenuous activity and keep them moderately high on other days. Eat good fats and lots of protein and keep your calories in check. Eat fiber and protein with every meal and use proper PWO nutrition.
There’s lots of great articles on this web site, but there’s also no magic formula and I think people get too caught up in the crazes and theories with this stuff. If you wanna put on lean mass and drop that fat skinny look you’re gonna have to eat really well, eat the right amount, and really exercise a ton. It’s challenging but I think it can be fun and rewarding too, you’ve gotta make it a part of your lifestyle.
fyi my situation and workouts are somewhat similar to yours and that’s my plan!
Your sample diet looks pretty solid…
If you are trying to add mass while staying lean I would keep the carbs in your breakfast and postworkout shake … maybe a little in your fist solid meal after you workout as well.
If you are trying to drop bodyfat I would cut out all catbs (except veggies) including the postworkout shake. I’d also lose the bed time cottage cheese.
[quote]shadowmoses wrote:
For a FFB lose the pre-bed Cottage Cheese, get some Metabolic Drive or whey and have that with some flax oil or olive oil.[/quote]
I dont understand the suggestion to lose the cottage cheese. Most have little to no carbs. I actually eat it all the time either with some cashews, or a scoop of met drive mixed in.
Diet does look solid, although I initial thoughts were to the total calories each day. Are you getting enough to make any gains?
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
For a FFB lose the pre-bed Cottage Cheese, get some Metabolic Drive or whey and have that with some flax oil or olive oil.
I dont understand the suggestion to lose the cottage cheese. Most have little to no carbs. I actually eat it all the time either with some cashews, or a scoop of met drive mixed in.
Diet does look solid, although I initial thoughts were to the total calories each day. Are you getting enough to make any gains?
S
[/quote]
I’m wondering about the cottage cheese too. It’s only 10g carbs/cup. I could switch it up to eggs or some meat though no problems. If timing is what you are getting at, I have it about 2 hours before bed.
Total calories are between 2100-2400 depending on if I workout or not.
Cottage cheese is not going to make you fat, going back to your old habits will. I’m a FFB myself and cottage cheese is not the enemy, garbage food and skipping workouts is.
[quote]jlats wrote:
Are you trying to lose fat or put on muscle while staying lean (accepting a little bit of fat gain?)[/quote]
The latter. I’m at 10-12% bodyfat, but it’s all on my abdominal region so I just look skinny fat, so I think if I could just add some size elsewhere, particularly my arms and legs, I’d look much better.
[quote]Jeffe wrote:
I can tell you that right now I’m on a no/super low carb diet right now (as close as possible to the diet Thibs put Bartl on) and I’ve dropped about 14 pounds of fat/water in less than 2 weeks. Before I get beat up about how it’s not possible w/o losing muscle, my numbers in the gym have gone up on a few lifts and I can see immediate changes in appearance already.
I happen to be extremely insulin resistant (based on the bodyfat storage area analysis thingie) and educated guessing based on how easily I can gain a pound a week with a normal carb intake despite exercise and modest calories.
I’ve been dosing fish oil fairly heavily in hopes that it will, in fact, increase insulin sensitivity in conjunction with making the body more efficient and using stored fat as fuel.
That’s my experience w/ low/no carb and I have to say that I absolutely love it.
[/quote]
Where can I find this bf storage anaylasis? Sounds very interesting/