Berardi Phone Consultation?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
41

CLaw,
Good post. Investing in education is underrated. I think part of the reason for this in today’s society is the perception that everything is available for free on the internet.

JB,
Ignore Mick, his only intention is to aggravate. He will never back up his statements and will simply try to shift the direction of the discussion to his interests. You will not get a straight answer out of him.

OP,
The PN product will prove valuable in both your professional career and achieving your personal goals.

I’d also like to point out that although quite a bit of JB’s theory and material is available for free here and elsewhere, but the additional resources such as the seminar DVD, audio CDs and the Gourmet Nutrition recipe book alone are more than worth the cost. That doesn’t include the PN forum which also contains plenty of useful information.

42

Sometimes for some people it is reassuring to pay $200 to hear somebody tell them they have been applying their knowledge incorrectly.

43

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Sometimes for some people it is reassuring to pay $200 to hear somebody tell them they have been applying their knowledge incorrectly. [/quote]

Huh?

This statement implies you know your apply the information incorrectly and you are looking to confirm your incorrect application. Is that what you’re saying?

45

[quote]Mick28 wrote:

Like I stated if the poster has some extra money he might want to give the book a try. Otherwise, do a search using the T-Nation search engine.[/quote]

Which part of this sentence from your earlier post encourages the OP to purchase the product?

And don’t worry about aggravating me, I’m only aggravated by people whom I respect or have respect for their abilities/knowledge. You don’t qualify.

47

What you did was give him an uninformed opinion since you admitted to not having the product. If you didn’t like JB’s work I could see your point, but you said you liked JB’s work so your “opinion” makes no sense.

I only gave an opinion because I have the product and I think he could benefit from it.

Don’t worry about the PM, I have no desire to converse with you further.

48

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Sometimes for some people it is reassuring to pay $200 to hear somebody tell them they have been applying their knowledge incorrectly.

Huh?

This statement implies you know your apply the information incorrectly and you are looking to confirm your incorrect application. Is that what you’re saying?[/quote]

Exxxactly…

He might know all the principals of nutrition. I mean for christ sake every site on the internet, book, and tv show says eat 6 times a day blah blah blah. But for whatever mental block reason your eating a big breakfast skipping lunch, too tired to workout try to diet at dinner to compensate for not working out then cry at the end of the week that you haven’t lost weight.

So now you have $200 that you can spend going out, but you look at your stomach and feel your lifetime insecurites resurfacing on your 33" waist wishing it was 28 like Mr. Pitt. Even though you look like Mr. Pitt minus the Baby Oil to everybody else. So you stay in this weekend abstaining from drinking promising to look better next week.

You take that 200 and call Mr. Berardi and complain I am 160 lbs haven’t been drinking and watching what I eat how come I’m not losing weight? He tells you to curb your carbs, increase your green vegatables, have a protein shake, eat 6 times a day, with the most carbs in the morning and you say “Wow thats what i’ve been doing wrong”.

Or you can be of the group that follows 5 different diets at once figuring the more the merrier, he puts you on one diet and it works.

As you get older I’m sure you will come into a few experiences where somebody teaches you something you already know.

49

I bought the precision nutrition program, and I thought it was well worth it. I didn’t think any of the diet information was new or amazing. Everyone knows that veggies are good, etc. What made it worth it was the information on how to incorporate the principles into your everyday life, including how to cook and grocery shop efficiently.

To be fair, by T-Nation standards, I was not trying to get ripped or bulk up, I was just trying to eat more healthful and not be so fat. Anyway, if you are having problems with your diet it is certainly a good place to start.

51

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
John M Berardi wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
…if a quality product exists, the money spent is a wise investment.

That would depend on whom the buyer is and how much the product costs. In the case of the op I think his 100 bucks might be better spent elsewhere.

I find this an odd comment when you don’t even own the product.

(Based on the fact that above, you said, “I’m sure it’s a fine product and all…”)

So, in other words, how are you qualified to make this assessment without owning it…

Not trying to be argumentative…just want to know where the certainty about the product comes from.

You make a valid point.

I was guessing that it was a fine product based upon other things that you have written.

I guess the product might suck huh?

Wow, then it really wouldn’t be worth the 100 bucks.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[/quote]

Touche…

Of course, my point was questionining how qualified you could be to assume that his money could be spent elsewhere when you never owned the product.

But, if you want to be a funny guy, by all means…your post actually gave me a chuckle.

52

[quote]John M Berardi wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
John M Berardi wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
…if a quality product exists, the money spent is a wise investment.

That would depend on whom the buyer is and how much the product costs. In the case of the op I think his 100 bucks might be better spent elsewhere.

I find this an odd comment when you don’t even own the product.

(Based on the fact that above, you said, “I’m sure it’s a fine product and all…”)

So, in other words, how are you qualified to make this assessment without owning it…

Not trying to be argumentative…just want to know where the certainty about the product comes from.

You make a valid point.

I was guessing that it was a fine product based upon other things that you have written.

I guess the product might suck huh?

Wow, then it really wouldn’t be worth the 100 bucks.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Touche…

Of course, my point was questionining how qualified you could be to assume that his money could be spent elsewhere when you never owned the product.

But, if you want to be a funny guy, by all means…your post actually gave me a chuckle.
[/quote]

In all reality, short of competing bodybuilders (who I assume you have counseled), people getting ready for last minute photo shoots or fitness competitors, how many people honestly need a phone consult…more than they need to do some leg work on their own?

I have no intentions of knocking what you do for a living any more than I would like for someone to degrade my own profession. However, I know from working with patients all day that the most good comes when the person finally realizes that their own actions are more important than waiting for someone to tell them what to do for every step they take in life.

I would never relate a phone consult about how a beginner (from looking at the OP’s pictures) should approach “eat more and lift heavy weights” to Continuing Education classes in an individual’s chosen career path. The only exception would be if the person looking for the consult was also trying to be a personal trainer and was looking for a mentor.

Yes, I do find it funny that someone who clearly seems to be missing the basics (like spending some years actually gaining some body weight instead of being overly fixated on his beach time abs) would be focused on a phone consult at this point.

People who need phone consults:
Professional athletes
models
competitive bodybuilders
fitness competitors

People who don’t need consults:
Skinny guys who haven’t even learned how to eat enough to gain any weight

Beginners who want to bypass years of heavy lifting so they can look like Brad Pitt by next month

People with no access to gym equipment and no desire to be creative at home yet want to look like they did.

53

I think the point of the consultation is being missed. As stated earlier there is a significant difference between cost and value.

Take for example low back pain. Search google and you’ll find all the information you’ll ever need to diagnose and treat any case of mechanical low back pain. Why would anyone need to consult with a physiotherapist or a chiropractor? The information is out there.

However, these practitioners are still keeping their offices busy. Why? Most people wouldn’t know how to differentiate between the myriad back pain symptoms/signs out there. By consulting with those who have the background/experience/education in that realm, one can cut through all the noise and get started on the solution to the problem.

Though the OP may be considered a “beginner” by some, would it not be beneficial for him to have specialized guidance from an expert in that field?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John M Berardi wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
John M Berardi wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
…if a quality product exists, the money spent is a wise investment.

That would depend on whom the buyer is and how much the product costs. In the case of the op I think his 100 bucks might be better spent elsewhere.

I find this an odd comment when you don’t even own the product.

(Based on the fact that above, you said, “I’m sure it’s a fine product and all…”)

So, in other words, how are you qualified to make this assessment without owning it…

Not trying to be argumentative…just want to know where the certainty about the product comes from.

You make a valid point.

I was guessing that it was a fine product based upon other things that you have written.

I guess the product might suck huh?

Wow, then it really wouldn’t be worth the 100 bucks.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Touche…

Of course, my point was questionining how qualified you could be to assume that his money could be spent elsewhere when you never owned the product.

But, if you want to be a funny guy, by all means…your post actually gave me a chuckle.

In all reality, short of competing bodybuilders (who I assume you have counseled), people getting ready for last minute photo shoots or fitness competitors, how many people honestly need a phone consult…more than they need to do some leg work on their own?

I have no intentions of knocking what you do for a living any more than I would like for someone to degrade my own profession. However, I know from working with patients all day that the most good comes when the person finally realizes that their own actions are more important than waiting for someone to tell them what to do for every step they take in life.

I would never relate a phone consult about how a beginner (from looking at the OP’s pictures) should approach “eat more and lift heavy weights” to Continuing Education classes in an individual’s chosen career path. The only exception would be if the person looking for the consult was also trying to be a personal trainer and was looking for a mentor.

Yes, I do find it funny that someone who clearly seems to be missing the basics (like spending some years actually gaining some body weight instead of being overly fixated on his beach time abs) would be focused on a phone consult at this point.

People who need phone consults:
Professional athletes
models
competitive bodybuilders
fitness competitors

People who don’t need consults:
Skinny guys who haven’t even learned how to eat enough to gain any weight

Beginners who want to bypass years of heavy lifting so they can look like Brad Pitt by next month

People with no access to gym equipment and no desire to be creative at home yet want to look like they did.
[/quote]

54

[quote]dra wrote:
I think the point of the consultation is being missed. As stated earlier there is a significant difference between cost and value.

Take for example low back pain. Search google and you’ll find all the information you’ll ever need to diagnose and treat any case of mechanical low back pain. Why would anyone need to consult with a physiotherapist or a chiropractor? The information is out there.

However, these practitioners are still keeping their offices busy. Why? Most people wouldn’t know how to differentiate between the myriad back pain symptoms/signs out there. By consulting with those who have the background/experience/education in that realm, one can cut through all the noise and get started on the solution to the problem.

Though the OP may be considered a “beginner” by some, would it not be beneficial for him to have specialized guidance from an expert in that field?

[/quote]

At this point, I would have to say, “no”…loudly. Yes, the internet is a wide source of information…but so is a library. Most of the people who have actually accomplished anything in the way of huge physical transformations had to search out the information on how to do it by themselves. I personally had no “specialized guidance”. I watched other people. I asked questions. I read books. I went to school. I don’t even consider myself as being at a point where I would need a specialized guide. Perhaps if I was trying to compete and was trying to dial in “perfection”, that would be of use. How many of these people do you honestly think are on that level where “near perfection” is the next step?

One thing your line of thinking seems to miss…is that everyone has a bias, including whomever you may decide to gain your “specialized guidance” from. That means the responsibility, no matter what, is still in the hands of the person looking for information. No one should be relying on one source for the knowledge they are looking to gain for that very reason.

Beyond that, this is not that damned complicated. It never has been. What has always separated those who actually get big muscles from those who don’t is personal drive and intensity. Yes, genetics play a part, but that isn’t what is holding back the guy who is afraid to eat enough to gain weight or who thinks they can bypass all of that sweating and balls to the wall training by use of a consultation.

55

[quote]dra wrote:
Take for example low back pain. Search google and you’ll find all the information you’ll ever need to diagnose and treat any case of mechanical low back pain. Why would anyone need to consult with a physiotherapist or a chiropractor? The information is out there.[/quote]

Because BASIC nutrition is analogical to SERIOUS medical treatment?

You have a serious problem with nuance. No one has said that a consult with Berardi wouldn’t be valuable. A competitive bodybuilder could benefit from such a consult as could people who need to dial things down perfectly. If I were training for a serious athletic event or other “do or die” situation, a consult would have value.

But someone who doesn’t even the basics down has no business doing a consult.

If we use your medical-treatment metaphor, the OP needs an ice pack for his sprained ankle. Sending him to an orthopedic surgeon for a consultation to see if he needs to have pins installed is total nonsense.

56

Many additional valid points presented here…

For the record, my bottom line criterion has always been this…if a person comes to me wanting a phone consult I ALWAYS make sure they own Precision Nutrition first.

Why?

Because if they own it it’s more likely that they’ll come into the chat with a basic understanding of the following:

  1. How much they should be eating
  2. What they should be eating
  3. When they should be eating
  4. How to eat for specific goal sets
  5. How to individualize based on activity levels and body type
  6. How to prepare proper meals when at home and when on the go
  7. How to set up their lifestyle for nutritional success

By buying, reading, and trying to apply PN, most of their basic questions are answered and they may not need that phone consult after all.

Some, however, with highly specialized needs still do.

So I agree with ProfX and CaliforniaLaw to a certain extent. Those with special needs and WHO ARE ALREADY FOLLOWING THE BASICS are those most likely to benefit most from a phone consult.

However I will say this. I’ve paid for accounting advice, legal advice, and investment advice.

Sure, I could have read legal texts, accounting texts, and investment reports till I was reasonably competent to handle all of my legal and financial transactions with a high level of expertise. But I wanted to fast track this process as best I could. So I hired experts.

And throughout the consulting process I even asked for the best resources they could point me to so that I could better understand the process. So, I understand all too well the mentality of someone who is doing the same in the exercise and nutritional domain.

Just remember, it’s not an either/or thing. Expert advice doesn’t have to preclude you from continuing education. In fact, it could do quite the opposite.

It might be used to provide you with certainty and support in the early stages while acting as a springboard for further personal development and growth later on.

57

Great discussion and points being made here, Dr. Berardi, I have been following your work for over a year now, and you are a great source of inspiration in my professional career.

I have to say I agree with Prof X and John?s subsequent analysis, a phone consult might be better for optimizing the basics, and tweaking specifics. However, just to throw out another view, some people need to be slapped right up side the head sometimes, and a -you specifically need xyz type of info - might just be what this guy needs. Many of us can read through a mound of steaming dung and are able to extract applicable information from it, and others just end up with a confused look and a crusted layer of shit all over their face.

I have to say as well, the analogies presented serve well for this issue, and I would like to add one. When I first got my computer , I hired someone who knows what they are doing to set it up install the best programs and get it up and running. I didn?t bother reading ?How to set up PC?s for the hopelessly retarded dummy?, the computer owner?s manual or any book on how to fix it, I get someone else to do it.

I installed my own floors, fix everything my self, but when it comes to computers, I have zero patience. Training and nutrition can be of the same confusing and utterly frustrating nature as computers are for others, and they like me would rather pay someone to get their machine running optimally. Now I could hire an IT guy, drop $200 and be on my way with specific advice on my particular problem and situation, or I could withstand hours of bombardment by knuckle head computer geeks on a forum telling me I need to learn the basics on how to set up my computer. Just another way to look at it.

59

In addition to the list Mick but up which I also recommend you read (see Mick I have no problem agreeing with you), anyone considering purchasing his PN product should read his Tailor-made series and his articles on G-Flux. These are the basis of the PN program.

60

Agreed…good suggestions Mick and Rugger…

And I’m glad to see you’re agreeing about something.

:wink: