I am coming to a new conclusion with regards to JMB’s recommendations. Which I have found no beniefit in getting lean with. I think he bases alott of info on his own experiences. He is a genetic mutant. The fatest he gets is 10% while eating around 5000cals even with high amounts of fats 150g and Carbs 500g. In my Opinion that is amazing genetics especially for natural lifter. You take a guy that has a pretty easy ability to be lean add in the fact that he is PHD educated with regards to nutrition, and you get a genetic mutant. I found that I can’t eat that many Carbs and FATS in a day without getting fatter despite the lowering adjusting the diet to my BF% LBM and activity. Regardless of Calories or P+C and P+F meals at the right times and higher expendeture. I think Massive Eating is great for bulking. But Dieting I have found no benefit. I think don’t diet diet works for guys who have a propencity to be lean, and it is excess calories and junk food that keeps them from being shredded. so the JMB style works for those guys. For guys who have a hard time getting to 10% despite eating well, I feel they need to either eat a little lower fat higher carb, or Lower carb higher fat. The daily totals of those nutrients count more than meal ratios. I want to hear your input and exeriences. Who has a hard time leaning out Most of the time, and is currently on this diet?You know The guys who have never seen their abs VS The guys who have an easy time on this diet, but are genetically prone to achieve leaness if they eat clean and balanced?
Many can’t eat as many calories as him. I get fat rather easy. However, eating less but still using combos of P+F & P+C still work better for me when dieting. I weigh 230lbs and consume only 2,000 cals per day. I have noticed protein & fat (or carb) meals have been the main factor in helping me get really lean. (Carbs after training, P & F leading to the workout.) Just because one part of the program doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean you can’t incorprate others. Bill Roberts recomends eating 8 cals per lb of LBM while dieting with androgens for rapid fat loss (Far less than the JMB articles) but he ALSO told me to go the P+C & P+F route. When talking with JMB at one point he told me to continue with my lower calorie diet. (Because he knew my personal situation) Everbody is different his reccomendations are a starting point not rules written in stone. Even he will tell you that…
I have studied independent research reports on diet as well as excercise & supplements. I know a few nutrionalists who are not trying to make money on products, and though it is a little old, the book, “The Zone” by Barry Sears points out many of the keys to dieting right. He assisted olympians and major sprots teams alike. Check it out.
If you’ve read the new paper issue, Berardi talks about metabolic ‘set points’ and how you can change them. He’s trained his body to eat that much and not get fat I’m guessing. Although he did say he was a hardgainer when he was in high school. The food combos (P+ C, P+F) work, even if the calories may not be quite right for everyone. I can eat maintenance Berardi style and lose fat, so his method does work.
hey guys, i have never been really lean either. but i do not attribute that to slow metabolism or some genetic predisposition. i attribute it to not working hard enough. no doubt, some guys are naturally lean, but they are also hardgainers. some guys are a little chubby but they can build mass relatively easy. so there are drawbacks to both body types. i am not familiar with the diet that you guys are speaking of so i have to ask you this. how frequently do you consume regular meals/supplements. how hard do you train, and how much cardio are you doing and when as well as at what h.r.? your heart rate during and timing of cardio is crucial. as far as the macronutrients go, the right combo is hard to find. but, generally i would advise cutting carbs and fats as it gets closer to bed time, since you dont need energy calories when your sleeping. eat your carbs and fats in the morning and post workout, but make sure they are low gi carbs. everyone can get lean, some just have to work harder than others. just keep at it, and eventually you will achieve your goals.
i have long thought the same thing, in fact i use his dieting recomendations for a 200 lb. man and actually bulked 10 lbs.
Caloric requirements are very individual. The guidelines he gives you for caloric reequirements are just a reference point to start. Not everyone is the same and you have to experiment with what works for you. I also get fat on his guidelines,but I lowered my cals a little and I can lean out pretty good. And also if his meal combining allows you to eat a 100 cals. extra a day than the regular combining(P+C+F) than the diet is a succes for me. I can eat more cals than normal massive eating style.
I think his ideas are mostly sound; you’d probably have better results if you were to adjust some of the #'s when it comes to calculating your RMR. Certainly, I don’t think his daily caloric requirement guidelines work too well for people like me (the type that’s always been the fatest kid in class). With that being said: yes, I agree with you with regards to the belief that he probably bases some of his stuff from personal success/experience. Other than that, his stuff is golden so far…
I met him at the seminar last year. He said if he eats too many carbs he gets wired (I just go to sleep), so it seems he handles carbs (and high calories) different than us mere mortals. BTW, his GF is hot…
I have seriously thought about this, but if Berardi follows his own advice (I have no reason not to think he doesn’t) then when he follows his “massive eating” he maximizes his metabolism, and when he follows his “don’t diet” he may not even touch his metabolism. Also he seems to do a lot of exercise throughout the week to maximize his insulin sensitivity.
When I started following his massive eating program (and not perfectly) over eight weeks, I ate a ton of food and barely put on any weight. Then I brought my calories down to a normal range and lost a couple pounds in a week without trying. Then I had the easiest weight loss when I cut my calories over the next month. (I kept the p+c and p+f eating for the most part, but once again not perfect.)
I think that true hardgainers should actually consider short term extreme low calorie diets from time to time to keep their metabolism low, while people prone to fat should try their best to follow berardi’s don’t diet and massive eating programs once they get their body fat down to where they want it.
Two things to add here. One, although The Zone book has a lot of valuable info, be careful of the calorie recommendations as they can be extremely low for some people. Two, I have definitely seen my metabolic set point change by using Berardi’s recommendations (it’s been about six months now)…my maintenance level for cals has gone way up over this time period.
Hello,
I’ve adopted “Massive eating” for the last 10-12 months and I must say I’m quite impressed. First a few numbers: I’m 6’4’’ 217lbs and currently cutting up. I’m around 11-12% BF. I’m quite a endo-mesomorph(if such a bizarre creature exist!
i.e. I can cut and bulk easily but getting down below 10% have been quite difficult BUT not impossible. Here’s my experience with M.Eating:
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The meal combo is right on. I went from a 2900-3000 kcal maintenance to a 3300-3400kcal maintenance. Prior to this diet, my diet was quite good so the combos great.
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The total kcal per day may be a too high for normal or slower metabolisms. I had to cut 10% out of my total kcal requirements for bulking and dieting. Right now I cut at 2800kcal/day and 3400 kcal/day on weekends for an average of 2971kcal/day instead of 3100-3200kcal. When I bulk up, I shoot for 4000-4200kcal instead of 4500-4700.
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Yes, J.M.Berardi seems to have a high metabolism BUT he trains more often/longer than most of us, so he burns more calories by those 2 mechanisms.
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His recommandations(see Lean eating I&II) seem excellent by my standards i.e. no special gizmo gadgets, no special diets. You just have to tweak your diet a little and voilà, you got a fat loss or bulk up diet that’s safe, satisfying and quite healthier than most other diets(it doesn’t mean I don’t see any value for these diets however.)
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Regarding health, Don’t diet or M.Eating make better choices over the long term, IMO. Most fiber, more fruits and veggies, more lean meats, lots of EFAs and loads of good protein.
For the above reasons, I highly recommend Don’t diet and M.Eating “protocols”. Use the principles underlying those 2 diets. So what if you don’t have too eat 6000 kcal to bulk up, if you stick to the principles, I’m sure you’ll do great because the 2 diets provide an excellent foundation for your present & future health.
I hope it helps you,
If anyone agree or disagree, feel free to let me know,
-LPdSB
L: I agree with you 100%.
If you merely “tweak” J.B.'s protocols to fit both your responses and your goals, I think that you will have a very potent (and flexible) tool in your nutritional arsenal. KCALS are one of those things you can always “tweak”.
Another thing that I’ve brought up before. If you go back and read J.B.'s intro to “Massive Eating”, the “base” diet (with the most KCALS) is for that supposed “hardgainer” who laments the fact that they cannot put on weight. Often the problem lies in simply not eating enough. THAT was the foundation of “Massive Eating”.
So…great observations! Mufasa
Let me first say that LPdSB’s observations and points were right on, especially about how the length of John’s workouts.
In terms of significantly raising metabolism, short workouts help, but long workouts really tax the system. Banging the weights around for 90 minutes followed by 30 min of hard cardio will increase anybody's metabolim by leaps and bounds. Just talk to some of the Renegade athletes working out hard with little rest for 90-120 minutes. I'm sure these people require tons of calories.
I believe that there is a workout threshold that once exceeded, allows you to be able to eat almost any quantity of food without gaining an ounce of fat. Most of us don't come close to exceeding this threshold and thus don't have as much liberty to eat as many calories.
IMO, 2 hour workouts can be productive and excessive volume can be quite helpful is some cases, but most don't do it for several reasons.
1. it's hard
2. it's expensive
3. you have to eat a lot of food
And of course there are many others.
You’re right as far as heavy physical activities and the loads of food necessary. I used to consume around 4000 kcal to maintain myself when I was in my most intense training schedule:
4 weight training per week 1h each
3 swimming session 1h (between 3-4km)
3 mma training 1h30-2h00.
Now, overtraining came in but it took quite a few months because of the truck load of high quality food I was ingesting. Lots of food can really help you to recover faster, if you choose high quality food(i.e. keep the junk below 5% of total kcal/week). It might be easier to bulk up using KFC but it’ll be much more healthy and productive is your don’t use this easy way out…
My 2 cents(again),
-LPdSB
I haven’t received my “Testosterone” in the mail yet, so I haven’t seen J.B’s article.
However…in the past he has alluded to “changing” inefficient cells to ones that are much more efficient at protein synthesis and fat mobilization and utilization (and by extension, increasing our metabolism).
A few warnings, though: 1) It takes WORK 2) It takes TIME 3) It takes CONSISTENCY and 4)It needs to be sustained over a period of time. (J.B. has done them all in himself!)
I’m getting a little impatient. Is this what he speaks about in the article in the newest “Testosterone”? (Just curious!)
Bump…