There have been a few articles on here and studies done in regard to saturated fat and the effects it had on hormones/testosterone. What are these studies done based on? The macro breakdown, caloric amount, or a mixture of both? If you are eating 1200 calories 65% fat would the impact even be measurable?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I don’t really know how fats are processed by the body.
If my body breaks down, say, fish oil for energy… do I lose the omega-3 benefits on a cellular level? Or do I get to have my cake and eat it too?[/quote]
Think of omega 6 and omega 3 as structural fats that the body would prefer not to use for energy but rather incorporate into cells for cellular functions. These fats are highly oxidative and therefore need to be bound to other chemicals to make them stable. In high doses they are toxic.
On the other hand, saturated and monounsaturated fats because of their chemical composition are stable and are oxidized two carbon atoms at time until only a water any glycerol molecule are left. This is a completely nontoxic reaction and therefore these fats can be eaten in abundance (except you will develop leaky ass syndrome if you eat too much).[/quote]
If I read that correctly… basically you’re saying “use saturated and monounsaturated for energy” and “don’t use omega 3s or omega 6s for fuel, because you won’t get the benefit for cellular function”.
Right?[/quote]
Yes, you won’t feel good if you try to get energy from any of the polyunsaturated fats.
When you supplement with omega 3 you only need to supplement in proportion to how much omega 6 you are exposed to - and maybe a little more for exercise induces inflammation. The more omega 6 you eat the more omega 3 you need to counterbalance it.
[quote]anonym wrote:
But, even guesses into the diets of our “paleo” ancestors have them eating anywhere from 40 - 50% of their calories from carbs… with fat ranking dead last at “only” 20 - 25%.[/quote]
I am skeptical of those “guesses” for the mere fact that year round carbohydrate consumption gets more and more difficult for people the further away from the equator they are.
Besides that, without storage or processing carbohydrate consumption is extremely difficult.
Just in terms of energy output gathering carbohydrate rich sources versus the energy obtained from them does not add up. For example, imagine having to dig up some tubers and then go through the process of making them edible.
I know this is what many hunter-gatherer tribes had to do in order to survive but I don’t think this was preferable to them. I think of the Kombai tribes in Papua New Guinea - if they could eat pig everyday I doubt they would mess around with processing and eating sago.
In terms of survival we eat what is available but in terms of “optimal living” I doubt we would accept mere survival as good enough.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am skeptical of those “guesses” for the mere fact that year round carbohydrate consumption gets more and more difficult for people the further away from the equator they are.[/quote]
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I just eat real food.[/quote]
If I had a nickel for every time some HF/LC paleo advocate said this to me (in between guzzling EVOO, coconut oil, fish oil, butter – you know, “real” foods), I’d be a very, very rich man.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am skeptical of those “guesses” for the mere fact that year round carbohydrate consumption gets more and more difficult for people the further away from the equator they are.[/quote]
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I just eat real food.[/quote]
If I had a nickel for every time some HF/LC paleo advocate said this to me (in between guzzling EVOO, coconut oil, fish oil, butter – you know, “real” foods), I’d be a very, very rich man.[/quote]
Those are real foods ;), just because they have some level of processing, does not change the message 
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Musclemorse wrote:
What do you low/no carbs guys do post workout?
Do you eat liquid protein meals?
Has anyone here gained a reasonable amount of muscle with this kind of diet?[/quote]
I just eat real food. It is only possible to gain “a reasonable amount of muscle” by eating real food. Unreasonable amounts of muscle require anabolic substances 
It’s hard for me to say how much muscle I have gained because I am still trending downward in terms of my absolute body weight but I have recently added 30 lbs to my front squat single since I last measured it.[/quote]
You don’t bother with liquid PWO meals, just eat food instead?
I’m just curious about muscle building potenial of a low carb diet since I’m 5’8 and 147lbs, I like the way I feel on a ultra low carb diet, but at the expense of packing on muscle I don’t know if its worth it.
Maybe I could get the best of both worlds, and eat a high calorie ultra low carb diet?
[quote]Musclemorse wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Musclemorse wrote:
What do you low/no carbs guys do post workout?
Do you eat liquid protein meals?
Has anyone here gained a reasonable amount of muscle with this kind of diet?[/quote]
I just eat real food. It is only possible to gain “a reasonable amount of muscle” by eating real food. Unreasonable amounts of muscle require anabolic substances
It’s hard for me to say how much muscle I have gained because I am still trending downward in terms of my absolute body weight but I have recently added 30 lbs to my front squat single since I last measured it.[/quote]
You don’t bother with liquid PWO meals, just eat food instead?
I’m just curious about muscle building potenial of a low carb diet since I’m 5’8 and 147lbs, I like the way I feel on a ultra low carb diet, but at the expense of packing on muscle I don’t know if its worth it.
Maybe I could get the best of both worlds, and eat a high calorie ultra low carb diet?
[/quote]
Leaner individuals can get away with more carbs Also, one could simply carb cycle to get the best of both worlds.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am skeptical of those “guesses” for the mere fact that year round carbohydrate consumption gets more and more difficult for people the further away from the equator they are.[/quote]
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
Science is built on skepticism.
[quote]Musclemorse wrote:
I’m just curious about muscle building potenial of a low carb diet since I’m 5’8 and 147lbs, I like the way I feel on a ultra low carb diet, but at the expense of packing on muscle I don’t know if its worth it.
Maybe I could get the best of both worlds, and eat a high calorie ultra low carb diet?
[/quote]
You’re not already doing that? I take in a lot of fat from cream and egg yolks.
High calorie (3500+) low carb (really not sure, but not ULTRA low carb, just low carb) and 200+ g of protein
Cutting edge 1960s muscle building diet:
[quote]The following diet as recommended by Vince Gironda and used on some of his people in his gym, is not to be used as a permanent type diet, but only for a short period of time for special purposes of stimulating added muscle growth.
When I am approached in my gym by anyone who asks about gaining weight, I usually ask this question: “Do you want increased bodyweight, or is it size that you are after?” Invariably the answer is “Size”!
So let’s not confuse bodyweight with muscle growth. (How much do you think an extra inch on your arm will affect the scale?)
This diet is designed to step up muscle tissue growth - not out on bodyweight. Remember, muscle size is desirable - not bodyweight - which will only smooth out your definition and increase the size of your hips and waist and cause a loss of symmetry.
Breakfast -
12 oz. Half and Half
2 eggs
1 Tablespoon Milk & Egg Protein
1 oz. Amino Acids (mixed in a blender)
Supplements to be used with this drink:
3-4 Hydrochloric Acid tablets
3-4 Enzyme tablets
1 R.N.A. tablet
1 Organic Iron tablet
3 Tri-Germ Oil Capsules
Lunch -
Hamburger patty and Cottage Cheese
Supplements:
Same as Breakfast except for Iron and R.N.A.
3 o’clock snack -
Natural (Not processed cheese)
1 oz. Amino Acids
Dinner -
Steak or Hamburger (up to 1 lb.)
Cottage Cheese
Supplements: Same as other two meals except iron.
Before retiring -
Protein drink
Between Meals -
(Every three hours) 6 Liver Tablets[/quote]
Note the added oil capsules and the fatty dairy products.
And another:
[quote]
When it came to packing on mass and size, the old-timer lifters developed a tried and true solution.
The Get Big Drink.
In the book, The Keys To Progress, author John McCallum shares this proven fix for skinny guys who need to gain weight.
The Original Get Big Drink:
2 quarts of whole milk
2 scoops of protein powder
2 cups of skim milk powder.
Blend.
Then add:
2 eggs.
4 tablespoons of peanut butter
1/2 a pint of chocolate ice cream
1 banana
4 tablespoons of malted milk powder
6 tablespoons of corn syrup.
Mix everything together and keep it in a bowl or jug in the fridge.
Here?s the key: Drink it slowly throughout the day. This mixture contains approximately 3,000 calories and 200 grams of protein.
It makes about 10 cups. So if you drink a cup every couple hours you?ll be providing your body with a steady stream of protein and calories ? perfect for gaining weight fast.[/quote]
Not low carb… but still high fat.
[quote]Musclemorse wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Musclemorse wrote:
What do you low/no carbs guys do post workout?
Do you eat liquid protein meals?
Has anyone here gained a reasonable amount of muscle with this kind of diet?[/quote]
I just eat real food. It is only possible to gain “a reasonable amount of muscle” by eating real food. Unreasonable amounts of muscle require anabolic substances
It’s hard for me to say how much muscle I have gained because I am still trending downward in terms of my absolute body weight but I have recently added 30 lbs to my front squat single since I last measured it.[/quote]
You don’t bother with liquid PWO meals, just eat food instead?
I’m just curious about muscle building potenial of a low carb diet since I’m 5’8 and 147lbs, I like the way I feel on a ultra low carb diet, but at the expense of packing on muscle I don’t know if its worth it.
Maybe I could get the best of both worlds, and eat a high calorie ultra low carb diet?
[/quote]
I think how you feel is the best predictor for what will work.
If you feel bad because of how you are eating then you will not be working to your advantage. In an non-optimal state of health how possible will it be to keep up with a proper training regimen let alone build muscle?
Just eat until you are satisfied plus maybe have an extra helping or three after intense bouts of exertion.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am skeptical of those “guesses” for the mere fact that year round carbohydrate consumption gets more and more difficult for people the further away from the equator they are.[/quote]
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
Science is built on skepticism.[/quote]
Educated skepticism.
“Thinking” something can’t be true without having done much research into the subject doesn’t count. Unfortunately.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am skeptical of those “guesses” for the mere fact that year round carbohydrate consumption gets more and more difficult for people the further away from the equator they are.[/quote]
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
Science is built on skepticism.[/quote]
Educated skepticism.
“Thinking” something can’t be true without having done much research into the subject doesn’t count. Unfortunately.[/quote]
What is educated skepticism?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
Watched this last night and it appears that the Doc is advocating NO CARB UPs at all - similar to what Maverick88 is doing. Now I thought that carb ups were important for T3 (or 4?) regulation. Most low carb diets include a cycle of carbs.
Any thoughts?[/quote]
Carbohydrates are only important for energy if you don’t eat fat - otherwise there is no need to eat them at all. In and of themselves carbohydrates do not provide anything but energy. Any micronutrition that could be found in carbohydrate rich sources could be found elsewhere in other more nutritionally dense foods.
What Phinney is advocating is nutritional ketosis. Once adapted to ketosis the brain does not need as much glucose because excess ketone production goes to brain support rather than muscular support. The small amount of glucose the body needs can be met by dietary protein.[/quote]
Thanks for that - I have been following an AD eating approach, where DiPasquale advocates carb ups for T3/4 regulation. As do other low carb guys (Faigin, shelby Starnes, I think).
Are they incorrect/misinformed?
[quote]alin wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
Watched this last night and it appears that the Doc is advocating NO CARB UPs at all - similar to what Maverick88 is doing. Now I thought that carb ups were important for T3 (or 4?) regulation. Most low carb diets include a cycle of carbs.
Any thoughts?[/quote]
Carbohydrates are only important for energy if you don’t eat fat - otherwise there is no need to eat them at all. In and of themselves carbohydrates do not provide anything but energy. Any micronutrition that could be found in carbohydrate rich sources could be found elsewhere in other more nutritionally dense foods.
What Phinney is advocating is nutritional ketosis. Once adapted to ketosis the brain does not need as much glucose because excess ketone production goes to brain support rather than muscular support. The small amount of glucose the body needs can be met by dietary protein.[/quote]
Thanks for that - I have been following an AD eating approach, where DiPasquale advocates carb ups for T3/4 regulation. As do other low carb guys (Faigin, shelby Starnes, I think).
Are they incorrect/misinformed?[/quote]
I wouldn’t go that far. I don’t think their goal is to be in nutritional ketosis but something else entirely.
Lean, insanely active people could probably get away with more carbohydrate consumption but they would not be in nutritional ketosis.
For me, the fastest way to drop body fat is in this state which is why I do not allow a “refeed” in my diet.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
Watched this last night and it appears that the Doc is advocating NO CARB UPs at all - similar to what Maverick88 is doing. Now I thought that carb ups were important for T3 (or 4?) regulation. Most low carb diets include a cycle of carbs.
Any thoughts?[/quote]
Carbohydrates are only important for energy if you don’t eat fat - otherwise there is no need to eat them at all. In and of themselves carbohydrates do not provide anything but energy. Any micronutrition that could be found in carbohydrate rich sources could be found elsewhere in other more nutritionally dense foods.
What Phinney is advocating is nutritional ketosis. Once adapted to ketosis the brain does not need as much glucose because excess ketone production goes to brain support rather than muscular support. The small amount of glucose the body needs can be met by dietary protein.[/quote]
Thanks for that - I have been following an AD eating approach, where DiPasquale advocates carb ups for T3/4 regulation. As do other low carb guys (Faigin, shelby Starnes, I think).
Are they incorrect/misinformed?[/quote]
I wouldn’t go that far. I don’t think their goal is to be in nutritional ketosis but something else entirely.
Lean, insanely active people could probably get away with more carbohydrate consumption but they would not be in nutritional ketosis.
For me, the fastest way to drop body fat is in this state which is why I do not allow a “refeed” in my diet.[/quote]
Thank you for the reply. I’ll give that (above) a go and see if I ‘need’ carbs for T3/4 after a month or two.
(F**k!! The idea of not eating some of the things I love ever again!!! Scary. How did you cope with that?)
[quote]alin wrote:
(F**k!! The idea of not eating some of the things I love ever again!!! Scary. How did you cope with that?)[/quote]
It is a slow process that I am still going through. Beer is one thing I love and though I have reduced my consumption of it to just few per week I cannot totally let go.
As for the other things it was easy once it was out of my system the first few weeks.
I started first by removing sugar then I took out grains and all the other miscellaneous carbohydrates. Though I enjoyed those foods I was never really attached to them. I ate them out of habit. In all honesty I don’t miss them nor do I have cravings for them.
A few weeks ago I was visiting a friend who doesn’t really understand this lifestyle and to be a gracious guest I willingly ate every carb-laden meal he prepared…that week I spent close to the toilet with all sorts of digestive issues and it totally solidified my resolve to abstain from a wheat and vegetable oil, especially.
I won’t stop completely eating carbohydrate but I will use extreme caution with them from now on - and focus mainly on “safe starches” if I do eat them (white rice, potatoes, tapioca, sago).
[quote]alin wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
Watched this last night and it appears that the Doc is advocating NO CARB UPs at all - similar to what Maverick88 is doing. Now I thought that carb ups were important for T3 (or 4?) regulation. Most low carb diets include a cycle of carbs.
Any thoughts?[/quote]
Carbohydrates are only important for energy if you don’t eat fat - otherwise there is no need to eat them at all. In and of themselves carbohydrates do not provide anything but energy. Any micronutrition that could be found in carbohydrate rich sources could be found elsewhere in other more nutritionally dense foods.
What Phinney is advocating is nutritional ketosis. Once adapted to ketosis the brain does not need as much glucose because excess ketone production goes to brain support rather than muscular support. The small amount of glucose the body needs can be met by dietary protein.[/quote]
Thanks for that - I have been following an AD eating approach, where DiPasquale advocates carb ups for T3/4 regulation. As do other low carb guys (Faigin, shelby Starnes, I think).
Are they incorrect/misinformed?[/quote]
I wouldn’t go that far. I don’t think their goal is to be in nutritional ketosis but something else entirely.
Lean, insanely active people could probably get away with more carbohydrate consumption but they would not be in nutritional ketosis.
For me, the fastest way to drop body fat is in this state which is why I do not allow a “refeed” in my diet.[/quote]
Thank you for the reply. I’ll give that (above) a go and see if I ‘need’ carbs for T3/4 after a month or two.
(F**k!! The idea of not eating some of the things I love ever again!!! Scary. How did you cope with that?)[/quote]
There’s hardly any food that I swear off completely. Fast food joints may be the one exception outside of just health concerns.
But, I still eat pizza, cokoies, ice cream and beer occasionally. Having that mindset rather than “I can never have it again” will help greatly.
[quote]alin wrote:
Thank you for the reply. I’ll give that (above) a go and see if I ‘need’ carbs for T3/4 after a month or two.
(F**k!! The idea of not eating some of the things I love ever again!!! Scary. How did you cope with that?)[/quote]
You just named a bunch of high profile, well-respected nutritionists who advocate refeeds on low carb diets, but instead decided it’d be better to take the advice of some random guy on the internet with zero pictures and zero credentials (unless they are posted somewhere I don’t know about), so you could just do a refeed and then you won’t have to give anything up at all. Either way, the guy in the video said you could eat carbs, you’ll just come out from nutritional ketosis for a few weeks or however long he mentioned. I am not a fan of low carb/high fat diets personally so although I am following the thread quite closely, I was trying to avoid posting, but this thread is called “Benefits of High Fat Diets”, and if there was one benefit (and it’s probably the only one imo) it would be a couple of days of eating whatever you want at the weekend.
Maybe you are happy to give carbs up entirely (in the long term), or you’d like experiment for a few months, which is fine I guess. As for cravings, I am carb cycling right now and for the first 5-6 weeks I didn’t have any cheat meals/food, and after a couple of weeks I no longer got any cravings whatsoever for junk food. In fact I don’t even particularly enjoy the prospect of eating it much anymore, so if you do the constantly low carb thing you might get past your cravings after a few weeks.
and if there was ever a post that convinced me refeeding isn’t such a bad idea, it would probably be LIFT…'s (gorilla avatar guy) last one where he talks about how he ate some carbs at a friends house and had toilet/digestive issues all week… I would personally like to know I can have some carbs without that happening
ps. do you plan to get blood tests done for t3/4? would be cool if you posted the results if you decide to go ahead with it
[quote]nuts wrote:
and if there was ever a post that convinced me refeeding isn’t such a bad idea, it would probably be LIFT…'s (gorilla avatar guy) last one where he talks about how he ate some carbs at a friends house and had toilet/digestive issues all week… I would personally like to know I can have some carbs without that happening
[/quote]
It wasn’t just one day of eating it was an entire week.
I felt bad starting on day 3. It was not carbs per se, but rather the totality of his entire pantry - nothing good in there.