[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
It wasn’t just one day of eating it was an entire week.
I felt bad starting on day 3. It was not carbs per se, but rather the totality of his entire pantry - nothing good in there.
[/quote]
Ahh ok, probably not too extreme then as I think a lot of people would struggle coming off any diet where they are pretty anal about eating “clean” foods to an all-out 3 day binge, especially if it introduces foods they haven’t had in a long time.
[quote]nuts wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
Thank you for the reply. I’ll give that (above) a go and see if I ‘need’ carbs for T3/4 after a month or two.
(F**k!! The idea of not eating some of the things I love ever again!!! Scary. How did you cope with that?)[/quote]
You just named a bunch of high profile, well-respected nutritionists who advocate refeeds on low carb diets, but instead decided it’d be better to take the advice of some random guy on the internet with zero pictures and zero credentials (unless they are posted somewhere I don’t know about), so you could just do a refeed and then you won’t have to give anything up at all. Either way, the guy in the video said you could eat carbs, you’ll just come out from nutritional ketosis for a few weeks or however long he mentioned. I am not a fan of low carb/high fat diets personally so although I am following the thread quite closely, I was trying to avoid posting, but this thread is called “Benefits of High Fat Diets”, and if there was one benefit (and it’s probably the only one imo) it would be a couple of days of eating whatever you want at the weekend.
Maybe you are happy to give carbs up entirely (in the long term), or you’d like experiment for a few months, which is fine I guess. As for cravings, I am carb cycling right now and for the first 5-6 weeks I didn’t have any cheat meals/food, and after a couple of weeks I no longer got any cravings whatsoever for junk food. In fact I don’t even particularly enjoy the prospect of eating it much anymore, so if you do the constantly low carb thing you might get past your cravings after a few weeks.
and if there was ever a post that convinced me refeeding isn’t such a bad idea, it would probably be LIFT…'s (gorilla avatar guy) last one where he talks about how he ate some carbs at a friends house and had toilet/digestive issues all week… I would personally like to know I can have some carbs without that happening
ps. do you plan to get blood tests done for t3/4? would be cool if you posted the results if you decide to go ahead with it[/quote]
Probably like the OP, I tend to follow a keto approach because it’s tried and trusted for me in the past when it comes to body comp (I’m a natural endomorph). I’m doing this now via IF, which adds another novel angle to the approach (for me). Having tried virtually every CKD under the sun at one time or another, I’ve found the carb-up, refeed, etc, a bit like the carrot at the end of the diet stick - it’s there to motivate you to get through the hard part and contributes little to your goals when you eventually get to eat it! That said, some folks need that. I’m only 19 days into this phase and I haven’t felt the need to introduce this to date, and that’s despite weights 4-5 times a week, and I’ve now added sprints to other days. What I have done a few times instead is eat at least twice my daily allowance (made up from extra PB, almonds, low-fat cheese). It’s whatever works for you, at the end of the day.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Probably like the OP, I tend to follow a keto approach because it’s tried and trusted for me in the past when it comes to body comp (I’m a natural endomorph). I’m doing this now via IF, which adds another novel angle to the approach (for me). Having tried virtually every CKD under the sun at one time or another, I’ve found the carb-up, refeed, etc, a bit like the carrot at the end of the diet stick - it’s there to motivate you to get through the hard part and contributes little to your goals when you eventually get to eat it! That said, some folks need that. I’m only 19 days into this phase and I haven’t felt the need to introduce this to date, and that’s despite weights 4-5 times a week, and I’ve now added sprints to other days. What I have done a few times instead is eat at least twice my daily allowance (made up from extra PB, almonds, low-fat cheese). It’s whatever works for you, at the end of the day.[/quote]
Glad you posted that. That’s pretty surprising to me, I mean, given what you read about needing carbs to speed up metabolism etc. I have a feeling that doing a refeed would stave off plateaus for longer though, and it would be cool to get experiences from those who have tried with and without on that point. Based on most of the top coaches recommending refeeds , until I experiment with this stuff myself, I have to assume there is something worthwhile to doing one. ((I don’t know of any bodybuilding nutritionists that don’t, but feel free to point them out))
I was under the impression a refeed was pretty much a necessity on a keto/low-carb diet - I lost about 20lbs or so on a high carb/protein diet, after about the first 10lbs or so I got to a point where I wasn’t losing anymore, so instead of a huge cheat meal/night I added an entire cheat day, once I did that I started losing weight again… for what its worth I’ve never really been close to lean, which is why I believe that (in general) people are way too carb phobic.
[quote]anonym wrote:
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
anonym, you are an authoritarian; stop pretending to be a scientist.
[quote]nuts wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
Thank you for the reply. I’ll give that (above) a go and see if I ‘need’ carbs for T3/4 after a month or two.
(F**k!! The idea of not eating some of the things I love ever again!!! Scary. How did you cope with that?)[/quote]
You just named a bunch of high profile, well-respected nutritionists who advocate refeeds on low carb diets, but instead decided it’d be better to take the advice of some random guy on the internet with zero pictures and zero credentials (unless they are posted somewhere I don’t know about), so you could just do a refeed and then you won’t have to give anything up at all. Either way, the guy in the video said you could eat carbs, you’ll just come out from nutritional ketosis for a few weeks or however long he mentioned. I am not a fan of low carb/high fat diets personally so although I am following the thread quite closely, I was trying to avoid posting, but this thread is called “Benefits of High Fat Diets”, and if there was one benefit (and it’s probably the only one imo) it would be a couple of days of eating whatever you want at the weekend.
Maybe you are happy to give carbs up entirely (in the long term), or you’d like experiment for a few months, which is fine I guess. As for cravings, I am carb cycling right now and for the first 5-6 weeks I didn’t have any cheat meals/food, and after a couple of weeks I no longer got any cravings whatsoever for junk food. In fact I don’t even particularly enjoy the prospect of eating it much anymore, so if you do the constantly low carb thing you might get past your cravings after a few weeks.
and if there was ever a post that convinced me refeeding isn’t such a bad idea, it would probably be LIFT…'s (gorilla avatar guy) last one where he talks about how he ate some carbs at a friends house and had toilet/digestive issues all week… I would personally like to know I can have some carbs without that happening
ps. do you plan to get blood tests done for t3/4? would be cool if you posted the results if you decide to go ahead with it[/quote]
Hello - yes I named those guys AND I’ve tried their way of eating - BUT I’ve hit a plateau. Hence me saying I will TRY this approach. ( I believe that one has to try to see what works individually) .
Your post sounds like you’re slagging me off for trying this (e.g. ‘zero pictures’ ‘zero credentials’ etc) plus I made you post when you didn’t want to!!!
What can I say? I’m so sorry for offending you…
Although, in my defence, I had no idea you were reading my post.
(Oh and for the other guys in the thread - thanks for your advice/experiences)
[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
anonym, you are an authoritarian; stop pretending to be a scientist.[/quote]
I am teaching my first lecture in a couple of weeks… while I originally planned on going all “microbiology meets Dead Poets Society”, your post has inspired me to instead bring a large, studded paddle.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
anonym, you are an authoritarian; stop pretending to be a scientist.[/quote]
I am teaching my first lecture in a couple of weeks… .[/quote]
You have PM
[quote]alin wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
anonym, you are an authoritarian; stop pretending to be a scientist.[/quote]
I am teaching my first lecture in a couple of weeks… .[/quote]
You have PM[/quote]
I’ve been having issues with PMs for some time now… might have to resend.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
I’m sure the PhD’s who study this for a living are capable enough of taking that into consideration when generating their estimates.
[/quote]
anonym, you are an authoritarian; stop pretending to be a scientist.[/quote]
I am teaching my first lecture in a couple of weeks… .[/quote]
You have PM[/quote]
I’ve been having issues with PMs for some time now… might have to resend.
[/quote]
Ain’t gonna work. I’ve had PM issues for over 6 months, though I always seem to get them fine from Mods, seems to be just users
[quote]nuts wrote:
I was under the impression a refeed was pretty much a necessity on a keto/low-carb diet
Don’t know if necessity is the right word but I have always believed for body comp = keto; for performance = carbs. Obviously that’s very generic but in principle I’ve found it to be true. The fundamental reason carb cycling is used in a keto programme is to ensure performance is not compromised. Makes perfect sense and if I was involved in sport or regular HIIT and wanted to drop fat I wouldn’t use a strict keto diet unless it was offseason.
Again, and this is just my opinion, you also have to question any cycling approach that advocates huge carb ups lasting 24-48 hours and what that is supposed to achieve? I have never fully understood the merit of so-called ‘supercompensation’ as it seems to me unclear about what this actually achieves. The same diets then usually advocate ways of depleting these glycogen stores as quickly as possible afterwards.
There appears to be mileage in the idea of sometimes boosting kcals, and perhaps including carbs, to ensure better leptin production, and perhaps other hormonal responses. But to me, this ‘carb-up’ aspect is a very useful marketing ploy for people trying to pitch a certain diet.
[quote]alin wrote:
Hello - yes I named those guys AND I’ve tried their way of eating - BUT I’ve hit a plateau. Hence me saying I will TRY this approach. ( I believe that one has to try to see what works individually) .
Your post sounds like you’re slagging me off for trying this (e.g. ‘zero pictures’ ‘zero credentials’ etc) plus I made you post when you didn’t want to!!!
[/quote]
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to be a dick (towards anyone) but didn’t know how else to word it lol. It didn’t sound like you had tried their stuff, and from your posts I assumed you were a beginner/young and didn’t want you to fall into the trap of taking everything people say on here as 100% correct (because thats the attitude with which a lot of people post on this site)… I sort of made that kind of mistake and it cost me a hell of a lot of time. I have personally never seen or heard of any coaches recommending no carb ups at all, so when it seems like you’re picking between that and what top guys say, I just wanted to point out logic would say that you should go with the top guys… but you’ve already done that, just seemed like you hadn’t is all.
hope you get past your plateau, but I’m a little surprised you haven’t been able to bust through using their diets/recommendations… these guys have hundreds/thousands of clients so getting past plateaus is part of what put them where they are - I’m just saying it sounds like this could work for you a short while but then you’ll hit a plateau again and it sounds like you’re still not really sure how to get past them…
[quote]nuts wrote:
[quote]alin wrote:
Hello - yes I named those guys AND I’ve tried their way of eating - BUT I’ve hit a plateau. Hence me saying I will TRY this approach. ( I believe that one has to try to see what works individually) .
Your post sounds like you’re slagging me off for trying this (e.g. ‘zero pictures’ ‘zero credentials’ etc) plus I made you post when you didn’t want to!!!
[/quote]
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to be a dick (towards anyone) but didn’t know how else to word it lol. It didn’t sound like you had tried their stuff, and from your posts I assumed you were a beginner/young and didn’t want you to fall into the trap of taking everything people say on here as 100% correct (because thats the attitude with which a lot of people post on this site)… I sort of made that kind of mistake and it cost me a hell of a lot of time. I have personally never seen or heard of any coaches recommending no carb ups at all, so when it seems like you’re picking between that and what top guys say, I just wanted to point out logic would say that you should go with the top guys… but you’ve already done that, just seemed like you hadn’t is all.
hope you get past your plateau, but I’m a little surprised you haven’t been able to bust through using their diets/recommendations… these guys have hundreds/thousands of clients so getting past plateaus is part of what put them where they are - I’m just saying it sounds like this could work for you a short while but then you’ll hit a plateau again and it sounds like you’re still not really sure how to get past them… [/quote]
Sorry for misreadiing you - internet forums are usually hostile and NOT the best way of reading someone’s intentions or tone in posts. Sorry again.
Plateau-wise, I must be doing something wrong and do enjoy the carb up part of the diets. Perhaps too much, I don’t know. My worry (and this addresses JamesBrawn’s post too) is when I do this (it’ll be in the new year now when I can give it an honest uninterrupted long run) that the T3/T4 will suffer as that is what the carb ups supposedly combat.
I did try the green faces diet for a month with No carbs and had decent results, but man, the idea of going even longer (possibly forever) without the crap I enjoy… not good.
How did you bust the plateaus?
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Don’t know if necessity is the right word but I have always believed for body comp = keto; for performance = carbs. Obviously that’s very generic but in principle I’ve found it to be true. The fundamental reason carb cycling is used in a keto programme is to ensure performance is not compromised. Makes perfect sense and if I was involved in sport or regular HIIT and wanted to drop fat I wouldn’t use a strict keto diet unless it was offseason.
[/quote]
That makes a lot of sense.
Metabolism is the thing I usually hear being thrown around, which is why I asked about plateaus. I am not sure about hormones tbh.
[quote]
There appears to be mileage in the idea of sometimes boosting kcals, and perhaps including carbs, to ensure better leptin production, and perhaps other hormonal responses. But to me, this ‘carb-up’ aspect is a very useful marketing ploy for people trying to pitch a certain diet.[/quote]
I don’t really agree with the marketing angle - a lot of top competitors/nutritionists use carb ups, so I don’t buy it. I actually think low carb is a really good marketing ploy personally, which is why its difficult to find diet books where high carb/low fat is advocated. Its way easier to pitch imo, because it all sounds very very reasonable/logical… but then you have guys like Chris Aceto and his guys always look amazing.
[quote]alin wrote:
Sorry for misreadiing you - internet forums are usually hostile and NOT the best way of reading someone’s intentions or tone in posts. Sorry again.
Plateau-wise, I must be doing something wrong and do enjoy the carb up part of the diets. Perhaps too much, I don’t know. My worry (and this addresses JamesBrawn’s post too) is when I do this (it’ll be in the new year now when I can give it an honest uninterrupted long run) that the T3/T4 will suffer as that is what the carb ups supposedly combat.
I did try the green faces diet for a month with No carbs and had decent results, but man, the idea of going even longer (possibly forever) without the crap I enjoy… not good.
How did you bust the plateaus?[/quote]
It’s cool, my post was kind of hostile and I spent a little time trying to make it less so (fairly unsuccessfully).
I think enjoying them too much just depends on what the person who designed the diet recommends, if they tell you to do an eat whatever you want and as much of it as you want, then do that! but if its a “only eat until you’re satisfied” then yeah its possible you might be overdoing it, but I don’t think that would be a huge deal unless you are REALLY overdoing it.
the only way to know if T3/T4 is going down the pan is to do blood tests before and after, presumably the people saying it goes down have already done this themselves, or at the very least have a study to back up their claims. However, you will find a lot of studies contradict each other so there may not be much weight to the claim that hormone Z will decrease/increase due to a certain diet, and is just used as a selling point instead.
It really depends where you are at and what your goals are as for advice, and my disclaimer would be that I am not the best guy to ask by a long shot. It might be better if you start your own thread. I don’t know what the green faces diet is or what they recommend for example. However, I find you lose a bit of weight, then get stuck at a certain weight again and need to do something extra to break past and get the ball rolling. The last time for me: I read through Shelby’s cheat meal manifesto article, and concluded that I needed a cheat meal even though I wasn’t craving junk food at all anymore. So on the Friday before my deload week, I ate all my meals as normal, then about 10-15 minutes after the last meal (had to wait for the pizza to cook), I ate as much as I could over the next 50 minutes or so… which wasn’t a lot since i hadn’t been buying cheat foods for about a month which was kind of annoying. Trying to stick mostly to High GI carbs and keeping fat low. I also reduced my weekly calories by about 100 per day. Over the deload week I think I lost about 4lbs or something like that, so even though I was less active I lost a bunch of weight and my strength/size is the same. The time before that when I was stuck, I removed one of my high days (carb cycling) and added 2 x 15 minutes HIIT sessions. I started losing weight again, so next week I did 1 session on Tuesday, and had already lost my 2lbs… so I simply stopped doing the cardio and rode the wave for I-can’t-remember-how-long. This week I am trying a little experiment but it appears that it’s gonna be unsuccessful so I will probably add a couple of HIIT sessions next week to get the ball rolling again. Hope that helps.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Ain’t gonna work. I’ve had PM issues for over 6 months, though I always seem to get them fine from Mods, seems to be just users[/quote]
Well aren’t we just a couple of badasses…