I personally tried them the other week and definately wouldn’t recommend them. I do have healthy shoulders and I started to move up in weight in the movement, 185, 225, 255 for sets of 10…DEFINATELY not sticking with it…shoulders started to hurt doing it and everything felt off.
Left shoulder still feels a little weird actually since I’ve done them…not even gonna try it again.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
elusive wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Light weight in a smith machine if you have healthy warmed up shoulders may tap into some of those elusive upper chest fibers. Not a very good risk/reward ratio IMO
Untrue. People can’t tap into my upper chest fibers from the smith machine.
I read this post at least 5 times before I realized what the hell you were talking about. You proud? Wasting my precious time… bastards
haha Bones has been had, I hope even you bones got a little chuckle out of that.
[/quote]
Bonez doesn’t chuckle. I knurl barbells with my teeth during times like this.
I made the mistake of trying Larry Scott’s advice on this – he swears up and down in his writings that bench presses to the neck in the Smith machine, done the way he describes, are just the best ever – but paid the price for quite some time.
It may even be that I’m STILL paying the price, as I was not having chronic never-completely-going-away shoulder problems before then.
Or it’s possible that I might have had a full recovery since then and they aren’t to blame except for the months of problems resulting at the time.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
elusive wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Light weight in a smith machine if you have healthy warmed up shoulders may tap into some of those elusive upper chest fibers. Not a very good risk/reward ratio IMO
Untrue. People can’t tap into my upper chest fibers from the smith machine.
I read this post at least 5 times before I realized what the hell you were talking about. You proud? Wasting my precious time… bastards
haha Bones has been had, I hope even you bones got a little chuckle out of that.
Bonez doesn’t chuckle. I knurl barbells with my teeth during times like this. [/quote]
fucking classic, I cant wait to use that sometime.
Bones you ornery bastard
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
elusive wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Light weight in a smith machine if you have healthy warmed up shoulders may tap into some of those elusive upper chest fibers. Not a very good risk/reward ratio IMO
Untrue. People can’t tap into my upper chest fibers from the smith machine.
I read this post at least 5 times before I realized what the hell you were talking about. You proud? Wasting my precious time… bastards
haha Bones has been had, I hope even you bones got a little chuckle out of that.
Bonez doesn’t chuckle. I knurl barbells with my teeth during times like this.
fucking classic, I cant wait to use that sometime.
Bones you ornery bastard
[/quote]
Lol I don’t take myself that seriously, regardless of how some of my posts sound.
^ well its the intranet so fuck it
You may need to visit the ‘lifting and youre teeth’ thread, you know because of the bar knurling thing you do.
If it works for you and you feel comfortable doing it, then why not do it? Branch Warren and Brandon Curry both do something like this. branch does a variation for triceps and brandon claims that it works his high chest better than a regular bench. i would just do it with a spot and not get carried away with the weight until your comfortable. seams like “itll crush your larynx” is a bit rough. if you let the weight get away from you slam it on your throat that would be terrible, but a lot of lifts are like that. if we skipped lifts that would could be dangerous if the weight got away from us then things like squats, snatch, bench, skull crushers, alsmost all pressing movements would be skipped.
2:35 is where he talks about neck press.
Do them on a smith machine with safety pins.
I know the flat bench feels rather uncomfortable benching to the neck, but what about at a 35-45 degree incline? I know that this feels the best for incline pressing IMO. Anyone else use this?
I like to do this ONLY with decline bench, this is the only way this lift can be useful for me as it gives the pecs a very good stretch at the bottom.
To each his own, but the guys who are saying they had shoulder issues are doing one of two things or both:
- Using WAY too much weight. when you do these you need to check your ego at the door.
- Sounds like they may not be at the right angle. I would have to look up some old Gironda information that I have to see what angle he said to use.
- Doing both 1 AND 2.
Given the number of quality physiques that Gironda produced and improved and the fact that people are using his techniques today (just don’t give him credit) I would hazard to guess he knew a whole lot more about effective exercises and routines than any of us on here do.
And guys, there is no such thing as upper chest and lower chest, it is all one muscle. Well two, if you say right and left side. The chest gets worked as a unit, it is just that certain angles cause you to feel stress a little differently throughout the whole muscle.
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
To each his own, but the guys who are saying they had shoulder issues are doing one of two things or both:
- Using WAY too much weight. when you do these you need to check your ego at the door.
- Sounds like they may not be at the right angle. I would have to look up some old Gironda information that I have to see what angle he said to use.
- Doing both 1 AND 2.
Given the number of quality physiques that Gironda produced and improved and the fact that people are using his techniques today (just don’t give him credit) I would hazard to guess he knew a whole lot more about effective exercises and routines than any of us on here do.
And guys, there is no such thing as upper chest and lower chest, it is all one muscle. Well two, if you say right and left side. The chest gets worked as a unit, it is just that certain angles cause you to feel stress a little differently throughout the whole muscle. [/quote]
Well, technically you’re right, just like the biceps brachii is only one muscle. But, just like the biceps, there are 2 “heads” to each pec. The sternal head/portion is what most call the “lower chest” and the clavicular head/portion is what most call the “upper chest”.
Like you said, different lines of pull will affect the different heads to more or less of a degree which is why most people do incline presses to hit the upper fibers/portion, and flat or decline presses to hit the lower fibers/portions.
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
To each his own, but the guys who are saying they had shoulder issues are doing one of two things or both:
- Using WAY too much weight. when you do these you need to check your ego at the door.
- Sounds like they may not be at the right angle. I would have to look up some old Gironda information that I have to see what angle he said to use.
- Doing both 1 AND 2.
Given the number of quality physiques that Gironda produced and improved and the fact that people are using his techniques today (just don’t give him credit) I would hazard to guess he knew a whole lot more about effective exercises and routines than any of us on here do.[/quote]
You say not that others who report problems with this “might be doing” such-and-such," but that they “are doing” so.
You know so much about what others do. I don’t know how you do it, but kudos to you.
If it is your opinion that weights heavier than allowing say 10 or 20 reps should not be used, well that is your opinion. Or if it is your opinion that all that suffer shoulder problems from this are doing triples or singles, or are wrong on your second point, you are wrong there too.
You should be aware that differing people have differing shoulders, and what is injurious to many under the best conditions may be gotten away with by others.
Ignoring the fact that many have found this exercise unusable or unwise doesn’t change the fact that it is unsuitable or unwise for many, moreso than the standard bench press. Naming Gironda doesn’t change it, either.
I do them at the end of the workout with just the bar and a super wide grip. Since the grip is so wide, it gives me a little more ROM to go to the neck instead of the chest. It’s just a burnout for me, and if I fail, a 45lb bar isn’t going to hurt me.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
lewhitehurst wrote:
To each his own, but the guys who are saying they had shoulder issues are doing one of two things or both:
- Using WAY too much weight. when you do these you need to check your ego at the door.
- Sounds like they may not be at the right angle. I would have to look up some old Gironda information that I have to see what angle he said to use.
- Doing both 1 AND 2.
Given the number of quality physiques that Gironda produced and improved and the fact that people are using his techniques today (just don’t give him credit) I would hazard to guess he knew a whole lot more about effective exercises and routines than any of us on here do.
You say not that others who report problems with this “might be doing” such-and-such," but that they “are doing” so.
You know so much about what others do. I don’t know how you do it, but kudos to you.
If it is your opinion that weights heavier than allowing say 10 or 20 reps should not be used, well that is your opinion. Or if it is your opinion that all that suffer shoulder problems from this are doing triples or singles, or are wrong on your second point, you are wrong there too.
You should be aware that differing people have differing shoulders, and what is injurious to many under the best conditions may be gotten away with by others.
Ignoring the fact that many have found this exercise unusable or unwise doesn’t change the fact that it is unsuitable or unwise for many, moreso than the standard bench press. Naming Gironda doesn’t change it, either.
[/quote]
You’re reading MUCH more into what I said than what was said. My very first statement was “to each his own”. You are right, I did not use the words “might be”, “maybe” or “perhaps”. Disagreeing with me or showing where I may need to correct something is fine, but it is quite obvious by the tone of your response “it might be” you had a bug up your ass, when you wrote it. Or “maybe” you just don’t like me. I really don’t care. Just like you say I don’t know what others do, you don’t know what they do, other than those you train or train with. We both only know what we, ourselves, do. I hope you feel better by venting on me. If not, so be it.
Worked for Lou (1:25)
Flex also liked benching to the neck on both flat and incline.
[quote]FightorFlight wrote:
If it works for you and you feel comfortable doing it, then why not do it? Branch Warren and Brandon Curry both do something like this. branch does a variation for triceps and brandon claims that it works his high chest better than a regular bench. i would just do it with a spot and not get carried away with the weight until your comfortable. seams like “itll crush your larynx” is a bit rough. if you let the weight get away from you slam it on your throat that would be terrible, but a lot of lifts are like that. if we skipped lifts that would could be dangerous if the weight got away from us then things like squats, snatch, bench, skull crushers, alsmost all pressing movements would be skipped.
2:35 is where he talks about neck press.[/quote]
Exactly. I could actually feel my chest working when I used to do these. I actually invested in a cambered bar, something that seems to be out of production for many companies to get an even greater stretch. I finally started to grow.
Amazingly, there was never a shortage of people telling me I was going to hurt myself as they complained about the pain in their shoulders from the old fashioned flat bench.
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
lewhitehurst wrote:
To each his own, but the guys who are saying they had shoulder issues are doing one of two things or both:
- Using WAY too much weight. when you do these you need to check your ego at the door.
- Sounds like they may not be at the right angle. I would have to look up some old Gironda information that I have to see what angle he said to use.
- Doing both 1 AND 2.
Given the number of quality physiques that Gironda produced and improved and the fact that people are using his techniques today (just don’t give him credit) I would hazard to guess he knew a whole lot more about effective exercises and routines than any of us on here do.
You say not that others who report problems with this “might be doing” such-and-such," but that they “are doing” so.
You know so much about what others do. I don’t know how you do it, but kudos to you.
If it is your opinion that weights heavier than allowing say 10 or 20 reps should not be used, well that is your opinion. Or if it is your opinion that all that suffer shoulder problems from this are doing triples or singles, or are wrong on your second point, you are wrong there too.
You should be aware that differing people have differing shoulders, and what is injurious to many under the best conditions may be gotten away with by others.
Ignoring the fact that many have found this exercise unusable or unwise doesn’t change the fact that it is unsuitable or unwise for many, moreso than the standard bench press. Naming Gironda doesn’t change it, either.
You’re reading MUCH more into what I said than what was said. My very first statement was “to each his own”. You are right, I did not use the words “might be”, “maybe” or “perhaps”. Disagreeing with me or showing where I may need to correct something is fine, but it is quite obvious by the tone of your response “it might be” you had a bug up your ass, when you wrote it. Or “maybe” you just don’t like me. I really don’t care. Just like you say I don’t know what others do, you don’t know what they do, other than those you train or train with. We both only know what we, ourselves, do. I hope you feel better by venting on me. If not, so be it. [/quote]
No, I have no idea who you are. That is not intended as an insulting statement, it’s simply fact. The problem is not that the mean man doesn’t like you, as you suggest above: the problem is what you wrote.
It also is a fact that you were saying in a very dogmatic way that which is not so, and people taking your statements of what was so as flat fact could result in their injury. (Though I do expect that most know better.) No, it is not correct that everyone finding this exercise injurious does either your #1 or #2. For many it is just a plain bad exercise for them.
Putting it down in black and white that that’s what your post was is not, as you claim, having a bug up my ass, but it’s straightforwardly correcting some bad misinformation that you put out as direct-stated (supposed) fact that these are the only causes of injury from this exercise. No, the exercise itself is unsuited for many.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
lewhitehurst wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
lewhitehurst wrote:
To each his own, but the guys who are saying they had shoulder issues are doing one of two things or both:
- Using WAY too much weight. when you do these you need to check your ego at the door.
- Sounds like they may not be at the right angle. I would have to look up some old Gironda information that I have to see what angle he said to use.
- Doing both 1 AND 2.
Given the number of quality physiques that Gironda produced and improved and the fact that people are using his techniques today (just don’t give him credit) I would hazard to guess he knew a whole lot more about effective exercises and routines than any of us on here do.
You say not that others who report problems with this “might be doing” such-and-such," but that they “are doing” so.
You know so much about what others do. I don’t know how you do it, but kudos to you.
If it is your opinion that weights heavier than allowing say 10 or 20 reps should not be used, well that is your opinion. Or if it is your opinion that all that suffer shoulder problems from this are doing triples or singles, or are wrong on your second point, you are wrong there too.
You should be aware that differing people have differing shoulders, and what is injurious to many under the best conditions may be gotten away with by others.
Ignoring the fact that many have found this exercise unusable or unwise doesn’t change the fact that it is unsuitable or unwise for many, moreso than the standard bench press. Naming Gironda doesn’t change it, either.
You’re reading MUCH more into what I said than what was said. My very first statement was “to each his own”. You are right, I did not use the words “might be”, “maybe” or “perhaps”. Disagreeing with me or showing where I may need to correct something is fine, but it is quite obvious by the tone of your response “it might be” you had a bug up your ass, when you wrote it. Or “maybe” you just don’t like me. I really don’t care. Just like you say I don’t know what others do, you don’t know what they do, other than those you train or train with. We both only know what we, ourselves, do. I hope you feel better by venting on me. If not, so be it.
No, I have no idea who you are. That is not intended as an insulting statement, it’s simply fact. The problem is not that the mean man doesn’t like you, as you suggest above: the problem is what you wrote.
It also is a fact that you were saying in a very dogmatic way that which is not so, and people taking your statements of what was so as flat fact could result in their injury. (Though I do expect that most know better.) No, it is not correct that everyone finding this exercise injurious does either your #1 or #2. For many it is just a plain bad exercise for them.
Putting it down in black and white that that’s what your post was is not, as you claim, having a bug up my ass, but it’s straightforwardly correcting some bad misinformation that you put out as direct-stated (supposed) fact that these are the only causes of injury from this exercise. No, the exercise itself is unsuited for many.
[/quote]
I didn’t say you were a mean man. I basically said you were being an ass, but in an indirect way. Like I said, feel free to correct me if you see something wrong. I did admit you were right in my not using a qualifying statement, i.e. “might be” when I wrote what I wrote. That’s fine. I’m done with arguing with you in this thread. Feel free to continue the pissing match, if you feel it is necessary. I said what I had to say and those who want to debate the merits or the problems with said exercise in this thread can continue to do so. I’ve seen enough immaturity and posturing on this site to know where this can head and I choose not to take that direction.
Have a good day.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
lewhitehurst wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
lewhitehurst wrote:
To each his own, but the guys who are saying they had shoulder issues are doing one of two things or both:
- Using WAY too much weight. when you do these you need to check your ego at the door.
- Sounds like they may not be at the right angle. I would have to look up some old Gironda information that I have to see what angle he said to use.
- Doing both 1 AND 2.
Given the number of quality physiques that Gironda produced and improved and the fact that people are using his techniques today (just don’t give him credit) I would hazard to guess he knew a whole lot more about effective exercises and routines than any of us on here do.
You say not that others who report problems with this “might be doing” such-and-such," but that they “are doing” so.
You know so much about what others do. I don’t know how you do it, but kudos to you.
If it is your opinion that weights heavier than allowing say 10 or 20 reps should not be used, well that is your opinion. Or if it is your opinion that all that suffer shoulder problems from this are doing triples or singles, or are wrong on your second point, you are wrong there too.
You should be aware that differing people have differing shoulders, and what is injurious to many under the best conditions may be gotten away with by others.
Ignoring the fact that many have found this exercise unusable or unwise doesn’t change the fact that it is unsuitable or unwise for many, moreso than the standard bench press. Naming Gironda doesn’t change it, either.
You’re reading MUCH more into what I said than what was said. My very first statement was “to each his own”. You are right, I did not use the words “might be”, “maybe” or “perhaps”. Disagreeing with me or showing where I may need to correct something is fine, but it is quite obvious by the tone of your response “it might be” you had a bug up your ass, when you wrote it. Or “maybe” you just don’t like me. I really don’t care. Just like you say I don’t know what others do, you don’t know what they do, other than those you train or train with. We both only know what we, ourselves, do. I hope you feel better by venting on me. If not, so be it.
No, I have no idea who you are. That is not intended as an insulting statement, it’s simply fact. The problem is not that the mean man doesn’t like you, as you suggest above: the problem is what you wrote.
It also is a fact that you were saying in a very dogmatic way that which is not so, and people taking your statements of what was so as flat fact could result in their injury. (Though I do expect that most know better.) No, it is not correct that everyone finding this exercise injurious does either your #1 or #2. For many it is just a plain bad exercise for them.
Putting it down in black and white that that’s what your post was is not, as you claim, having a bug up my ass, but it’s straightforwardly correcting some bad misinformation that you put out as direct-stated (supposed) fact that these are the only causes of injury from this exercise. No, the exercise itself is unsuited for many.
[/quote]
If it is such a bad exercise (and I’m sure it is for some), the discomfort of the first repetition should be enough of a warning. Newbies may not be as in tune with their bodies as regular lifters though. But similar to what Lewhithurst said, you can improve a bad exercise by augmenting it in a few ways. I like to do them with a very wide grip so I would say if it hurts, just don’t do it.