Benching More Than Squat...

[quote] Jumper wrote:

PUSHING THE LIMITS DESTROYS THE CREDIBILITY OF POWERLIFTING!
Just my opinion! [/quote]

I’ll give you that one. You’re dead right. I lift under IPF and while I love the WPO and WPC I think it’s getting completly outta hand. I stil think it’s awesome to see people really pushing the boundries and I honestly think that if the top WPO guys (chuck V etc) got into 1x gear they’d still dominate.

As far as I know, Andy Bolton STIL holds all the BWLA (english IPF affilate) records.

I really like the pole vault v high jump analogy. I think it’s very true.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Jumper wrote:

PUSHING THE LIMITS DESTROYS THE CREDIBILITY OF POWERLIFTING!
Just my opinion!

I’ll give you that one. You’re dead right. I lift under IPF and while I love the WPO and WPC I think it’s getting completly outta hand. I stil think it’s awesome to see people really pushing the boundries and I honestly think that if the top WPO guys (chuck V etc) got into 1x gear they’d still dominate.

As far as I know, Andy Bolton STIL holds all the BWLA (english IPF affilate) records.

I really like the pole vault v high jump analogy. I think it’s very true.[/quote]

Absolutely. Chuck set plenty of world records w/ old shotty hand me down 1ply gear as he has w/ the recent 2ply stuff. Vogelpohl is a powerful person in general. If any of you ever get to meet him, you will immediately recognize this just by speaking w/ him. The dude is the real deal gents.

If powerlifting took away all gear right now, the dude would still out sqt and pull anybody lbs for lbs. You see, good pl’ers only use the gear about 10 to 12 weeks out from the meet. Most of our training is done raw as they put it. The gear is used for safety and numbers. I don’t care who you are, benching w/ a shirt is 1000 times harder than benching raw.

I hate using the fucking shirt but I know it’s very dangerous to push it w/ out one in a meet. Those fucking shirts pinch and bruise the shit out you then don’t allow you to bench in your natural shoulder roll, which in turn can scare the fuck out of you when your trying a PR in a meet.

Many people are super strong w/ out the shirts. Shirted benchers are some of the strongest raw benchers I know. That crazy mendelson pushed like 600 raw. Fuck that, I’m putting a shirt on. To help raw guys figure this in my raw bench is around 450. Shirt is around 550. The only reason it’s a raw 450 is because I don’t see any reason to go any higher w/ out a shirt. It’s unsafe and not necessary for competition.

So you folks who feel shirted benching is lame or squat suits are stupid, try one on sometime and go train. Watch how fucked up you are the next day. I hate bench shirts but they will be here forever, so I use’m too.

why argue about this?
if you have never used any equipment before how can you form such a strong oppinion on something you cant exactly understand. all the lifters who use gear train just as hard as you do.

thats what its about, training hard and breaking personal records. who cares if people use gear or not. if they can bench more than you with gear and cant raw, who really cares?? i have just as much respect for geard lifters as i do for raw lifters and ive never used gear before

[quote]redsox348984 wrote:
why argue about this?
if you have never used any equipment before how can you form such a strong oppinion on something you cant exactly understand. all the lifters who use gear train just as hard as you do.

thats what its about, training hard and breaking personal records. who cares if people use gear or not. if they can bench more than you with gear and cant raw, who really cares?? i have just as much respect for geard lifters as i do for raw lifters and ive never used gear before[/quote]

Your absolutely right, I just read almost all these guys posts and got internet road rage for a minute. Sorry.

Let’s get back to the original question, that being, what do we think of guys who bench more than they squat. I have a bench shirt, squat suit, knee and wrist wraps, etc. so I can’t say anything negative about equipped lifters. But I laugh at anyone who can’t squat what they bench, geared or not. The exception to this would be, of course, for a legitimate physical impairment such as the need to use a wheelchair or crutches or back problems. Most people don’t have the intestinal fortitude to squat heavy simply because they are such hard work.

I think if you bench more than you squat then your priorites are seriously fucked up!!

Say the average EQ’d bench for a 200lb guy is 450.

I think that implies a decent level of development and a fair while time spent training.

If that same person is unable to hit at least that in the squat I’d call them a WABDL member.

(sorry, I couldn’t resist!)

[quote]Hanley wrote:
I think if you bench more than you squat then your priorites are seriously fucked up!!

Say the average EQ’d bench for a 200lb guy is 450.

I think that implies a decent level of development and a fair while time spent training.

If that same person is unable to hit at least that in the squat I’d call them a WABDL member.

(sorry, I couldn’t resist!)[/quote]

LOL, I used to be a member of the
WABDL (still hold state records) but got tired of benching against guys with light bulb physiques. Funny how when it came time to deadlift there was little competition.

hahaha! welcome to the world of the famous gear vs raw debates! this is actually a very mild tread half-pint… i have had people who i once called friends, shared a dinner table with, had over to my house, break off friendships with me and say some really horrible things to me and generally hate me because of my views on geared lifting.
i even had more than one of these so called “outlaws” threaten to find me where i live and “kick my ass”<< please insert your best redneck accent here.

the geared lifters take this shit REAL personal.

me? i am tired of talking about it, i mean, it is really a big joke. really. the ONLY reason it is even a debatable thing, is the gradual(10-15 years give or take) way the extreme gear(especially shirts) have crept into the sport.

give you an example, say Rezza(world record holder in the olympic lifts) was to show up at the next world championships with a funky restrictive suit that he could barely walk in, and he breaks his own record by 20-30%? would ANYBODY believe he actually got stronger/better and really broke the record. no, he would be laughed off the platform.

but powerlifting has always been sort of an underground sport, and except for a decade of pretty strict judging and equipment rules(70’s maybe, debatable), it has pretty much been an anything goes sport. the equipment got more and more supportive, and judging became less uniform as more and more feds popped up.

think of it like football, where there are 5-6 leagues, some allow pads, some do not, some have an overtime, some do not, some play on a 50 yard field, some do not, 10 yards is a first down in some feds, others 6 yards, whatever. yin that situation you can only compare yourselves to others on the same playing field. which is fine, but how things get muddled and feelings get hurt etc. is when a lift in an obscure fed in a backyard meet gets “all time world record status” people lose it.

gear is here to stay in powerlifting, it is the only way to make money in the sport, and it is the only consistent sponsor of big meets. it (the gear) adds a high level of technical skill to the sport, learning how to use the gear and how to optimize the appropriate strengths to get the most out of the gear(top end strength, supportive muscles) is an science all to itself. many find this a challenge, and enjoy it, to them, i say go for it.

i trained at a gym of primarily APF competitors, and they used a ton of gear, and you know what? they were some of the strongest people i have ever trained with with or without gear. i consider myself stronger than the average gym rat, but i was one of the weakest guys there in or out of gear. it still does not change my opinion of the unlimited-gear federations.

me? personally i think it takes away from the sport. it makes it hard for the average guy who enjoys lifting and the challenge of getting stronger to understand and participate in the sport on a competitive level. many analogies to how technology has aided performance in other sports can be made, and many arguments can be made to support that. however i doubt you will find a group of world class shot-putters discussing the newest shoe or elbow wrap that will give them 3-4 feet on their throws(a fair analogy to 100-300lbs on a world class squat or bench).

in all fairness, i squat only off a box, and i use a belt and a pair of old briefs. so flame away, lol. i too am a gear whore, but i call the geared competition lifts as i see them.

on another personal note, i notice that many, many people on this board have competition squats 100-200lbs better than my best competition squat, but not nearly as many have a better deadlift than me.

what does that mean? probably nothing, cept the squat suits and bench shirts have changed the way people lift and train, and what was used to be considered “respectable” numbers, that is all.

[quote]moonjumper wrote:
Great response!!
SWR-1240 wrote:
halfpintdd wrote:
…what are your feelings about people using bench shirts to be able to bench more than they can squat?

I think they need a better squat suit.

[/quote]

i’d hit it…

[quote]dead_lifter5000 wrote:
What are your feelings about talking about something that you really don’t know anything about???

Just wanted to know![/quote]

I can’t speak for M, but I think there is a decent chance she may know a little something about lifting. Though she is a “newbie”, her husband is quite accomplished and has been doing it for a while and she lifts with him, so I would hope she has gleaned some amount of knowledge from him.

I will admit that, in my opinion, her post was worded in a way that would elicit defensive and negative responses. But I also think the defensive and negatives responses were over done. And while she may not have used the best wording/phrasing, one would think us tough guys would have a little thicker skin. :wink:

Mr. Mendelson is impressive with or without a shirt/gear. It is true he has the record (to my knowledge) for bench both with and without a shirt.

I am old, broken, and suffer from many (thankfully most are minor) injuries. I lift for a different reason than most. Lifting, and that dreadful cardio my wife encourages me to do, really helps me with pain management and stress. My overall quality of life has improved immensely since I started back to lifting. There are the added benefits that I am healthier, more muscular, and some stronger, but those are not my motivating and driving factors. I know this is off track, but I just wanted to share. :slight_smile:

Christopher