Being a Newb

Training
161

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

So how do you figure out how much to eat each day in regards to variability?
[/quote]

You look at progress.

I know I am eating right because I am more muscular and not gaining any noticeable body fat right now. That is why it takes YEARS to work this out because it is a part of trial and error.

That is why you don’t tell a newb to waste several months trying to vary calories within such a small range that they can drastically undershoot what their body actually needs.

Simply put, you stop trying to be perfect and realize from the jump that mistakes are how you learn.

162

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
It appears Stu and Prof X are misinterpreting eachother over the caloric analog of what is known as expected return v. volatility in the financial realm. And both are quite correct.

Yes, the VARIANCE due to caloric expenditure most definitely exceeds 200 cals, so it is in vain to try and restrict yourself to a narrower window than this. I completely agree with Prof X there. [/quote]

I think I am being pretty clear when I state that since the variance in daily calories can EXCEED 200 calories, it makes no sense for a NEWB to vary calories in such a small range all for the sake of some extreme fear of any and all fat gain.

163

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

So how do you figure out how much to eat each day in regards to variability?
[/quote]

You look at progress.

I know I am eating right because I am more muscular and not gaining any noticeable body fat right now. That is why it takes YEARS to work this out because it is a part of trial and error.

That is why you don’t tell a newb to waste several months trying to vary calories within such a small range that they can drastically undershoot what their body actually needs.

Simply put, you stop trying to be perfect and realize from the jump that mistakes are how you learn.[/quote]

I meant the actual method and analysis involved. How did you know how much to eat today and how will you know tomorrow? Care to show any exact numbers?

164

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

So how do you figure out how much to eat each day in regards to variability?
[/quote]

You look at progress.

I know I am eating right because I am more muscular and not gaining any noticeable body fat right now. That is why it takes YEARS to work this out because it is a part of trial and error.

That is why you don’t tell a newb to waste several months trying to vary calories within such a small range that they can drastically undershoot what their body actually needs.

Simply put, you stop trying to be perfect and realize from the jump that mistakes are how you learn.[/quote]

I meant the actual method and analysis involved. How did you know how much to eat today and how will you know tomorrow? Care to show any exact numbers?[/quote]

The point is to not be “exact”. You don’t know your body in all aspects enough to be “exact”. You can be as drastic as taking body weight and multiplying by “arbitrary number like 15-20” and then making adjustments based on progress.

Honestly, the main point here is to STOP TELLING NEWBS TO BE THAT EXACT because they don’t have the full knowledge base to make the most of it. You give them a starting point they can learn from.

I would rather a newb overshoot caloric need and make adjustments later than tell them they need to look at calories within 200cal ranges when they lack the knowledge base to actually do anything significant with it.

165

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

So how do you figure out how much to eat each day in regards to variability?
[/quote]

You look at progress.

I know I am eating right because I am more muscular and not gaining any noticeable body fat right now. That is why it takes YEARS to work this out because it is a part of trial and error.

That is why you don’t tell a newb to waste several months trying to vary calories within such a small range that they can drastically undershoot what their body actually needs.

Simply put, you stop trying to be perfect and realize from the jump that mistakes are how you learn.[/quote]

I meant the actual method and analysis involved. How did you know how much to eat today and how will you know tomorrow? Care to show any exact numbers?[/quote]

The point is to not be “exact”. You don’t know your body in all aspects enough to be “exact”. You can be as drastic as taking body weight and multiplying by “arbitrary number like 15-20” and then making adjustments based on progress.

Honestly, the main point here is to STOP TELLING NEWBS TO BE THAT EXACT because they don’t have the full knowledge base to make the most of it. You give them a starting point they can learn from.

I would rather a newb overshoot caloric need and make adjustments later than tell them they need to look at calories within 200cal ranges when they lack the knowledge base to actually do anything significant with it.[/quote]

When you wake up tomorrow morning, how do you know how much to eat being everyday is different? What cues do you use? How do you apply this for gaining and cutting?

166

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

When you wake up tomorrow morning, how do you know how much to eat being everyday is different? What cues do you use? How do you apply this for gaining and cutting?
[/quote]

I know how much to eat because I eat near the same daily. The cues I use are muscle gains, how I look, comments from others, my strength levels and more.

Because everyday is different with regards to the EXACT AMOUNT OF CALORIES YOUR BODY USES, I know that if I am going to make real progress, if my goal is to gain muscle, I can’t sit there and eat in such a narrow range that I may be LOSING WEIGHT or hindering muscle gains.

167

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

When you wake up tomorrow morning, how do you know how much to eat being everyday is different? What cues do you use? How do you apply this for gaining and cutting?
[/quote]

I know how much to eat because I eat near the same daily. The cues I use are muscle gains, how I look, comments from others, my strength levels and more.

Because everyday is different with regards to the EXACT AMOUNT OF CALORIES YOUR BODY USES, I know that if I am going to make real progress, if my goal is to gain muscle, I can’t sit there and eat in such a narrow range that I may be LOSING WEIGHT or hindering muscle gains.
[/quote]

What did you eat today and yesterday and why and what cues did you use?

168

You’ve said everyday is different so I’m asking for the method.

169

I am sorry, Brick, I can’t spend much more time with your questions. I have more interesting things to do right now. Maybe later.

170

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The point is to not be “exact”. You don’t know your body in all aspects enough to be “exact”. You can be as drastic as taking body weight and multiplying by “arbitrary number like 15-20” and then making adjustments based on progress.

Honestly, the main point here is to STOP TELLING NEWBS TO BE THAT EXACT because they don’t have the full knowledge base to make the most of it. You give them a starting point they can learn from.

I would rather a newb overshoot caloric need and make adjustments later than tell them they need to look at calories within 200cal ranges when they lack the knowledge base to actually do anything significant with it.[/quote]

Honestly I think that’s one of the main reasons things like GOMAD work for a number of people.

Take your regular diet, add a gallon of milk on top of it. Most are going to downregulate their food a bit anyway to get the milk in. If you’re getting stronger but putting on too much fat, drink a bit less milk.

Replace a gallon of milk with a dozen eggs, or ground beef, or chicken breasts, and it’s the same principle.

And since you’re eating a lot of one specific thing, it also helps transition to the point where they can better measure their total calories. When you learn that regular diet + 4 quarts of milk is too much, but regular diet + 3 quarts of milk is just right… you’re actually adjusting your calories fairly precisely without necessarily realizing it.

Then you can use that knowledge to transition to a more precisely measured diet as you go on.

171

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am sorry, Brick, I can’t spend much more time with your questions. I have more interesting things to do right now. Maybe later.[/quote]

Oh, OK.

172

I think X’s notion of a newb wasting months trying to figure things out is based off of an unrealistic image of everyone being supremely stupid when starting out (some are, some aren’t). There are a vast amount of coaches out there who have proposed fairly good guidelines for coming up with approximate figures as a starting point, with the obvious intention of the trainee making adjustments as results dictate.

I think that’s where Brick is going. Yes, we can all agree that adhering to any exact number, or narrow range of nutrients each day is silly, but this is turning into every other thread where people discuss methods and X disagrees yet never offers up anything more detailed than saying it took him years and all he needed to do was look in the mirror to ascertain progress. You can’t alway use yourself as the perfect example because as you like to point out, the variance between individuals is staggering.

Not everyone wants to spend years overshooting just to be safe, and in that case, methods requiring a bit more detail oriented anal-ness is probably a damn good way to learn and progress.

Howzabout any other tips for newbs? The whole “track tiny details vs overdo it to be sure” argument has destroyed far too many could-have-been-useful threads already.

S

173

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The point is to not be “exact”. You don’t know your body in all aspects enough to be “exact”. You can be as drastic as taking body weight and multiplying by “arbitrary number like 15-20” and then making adjustments based on progress.

Honestly, the main point here is to STOP TELLING NEWBS TO BE THAT EXACT because they don’t have the full knowledge base to make the most of it. You give them a starting point they can learn from.

I would rather a newb overshoot caloric need and make adjustments later than tell them they need to look at calories within 200cal ranges when they lack the knowledge base to actually do anything significant with it.[/quote]

Honestly I think that’s one of the main reasons things like GOMAD work for a number of people.

Take your regular diet, add a gallon of milk on top of it. Most are going to downregulate their food a bit anyway to get the milk in. If you’re getting stronger but putting on too much fat, drink a bit less milk.

Replace a gallon of milk with a dozen eggs, or ground beef, or chicken breasts, and it’s the same principle.

And since you’re eating a lot of one specific thing, it also helps transition to the point where they can better measure their total calories. When you learn that regular diet + 4 quarts of milk is too much, but regular diet + 3 quarts of milk is just right… you’re actually adjusting your calories fairly precisely without necessarily realizing it.

Then you can use that knowledge to transition to a more precisely measured diet as you go on.[/quote]

Yes, the key point being, STOP TRYING TO BE EXACT IF YOU ARE A NEWB.

There is a huge difference between eating “around 3,000cals” and eating “exactly 2,950cals”.

This is about making this a lifestyle…not a science experiment where you get graded on how “exact” you are.

It is about your results in the gym. I know way too many people who are trying to be “exact” to the detriment of their own progress.

Bodybuilding isn’t about impressing everyone with your use of internet-wise discussion forum jargon. None of that fills out a XXL shirt with muscle.

174

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The point is to not be “exact”. You don’t know your body in all aspects enough to be “exact”. You can be as drastic as taking body weight and multiplying by “arbitrary number like 15-20” and then making adjustments based on progress.

Honestly, the main point here is to STOP TELLING NEWBS TO BE THAT EXACT because they don’t have the full knowledge base to make the most of it. You give them a starting point they can learn from.

I would rather a newb overshoot caloric need and make adjustments later than tell them they need to look at calories within 200cal ranges when they lack the knowledge base to actually do anything significant with it.[/quote]

Honestly I think that’s one of the main reasons things like GOMAD work for a number of people.

Take your regular diet, add a gallon of milk on top of it. Most are going to downregulate their food a bit anyway to get the milk in. If you’re getting stronger but putting on too much fat, drink a bit less milk.

Replace a gallon of milk with a dozen eggs, or ground beef, or chicken breasts, and it’s the same principle.

And since you’re eating a lot of one specific thing, it also helps transition to the point where they can better measure their total calories. When you learn that regular diet + 4 quarts of milk is too much, but regular diet + 3 quarts of milk is just right… you’re actually adjusting your calories fairly precisely without necessarily realizing it.

Then you can use that knowledge to transition to a more precisely measured diet as you go on.[/quote]

I’ve always liked the Peanut Buttet approach. Provided that basic macros are sufficient, adding a serving (2 Tbsp) of PB after each meal of the day can add up to an easy ~1000 or so calories from prot and healthy fats. A very simple way to bring up overall daily cals.

S

175

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I think X’s notion of a newb wasting months trying to figure things out is based off of an unrealistic image of everyone being supremely stupid when starting out (
S[/quote]

Actually, quite the opposite.

It is based on knowing what more of these variables actually are and knowing how pointless it is to act as if you can control all variables in a biological organism.

You control what you can. You learn about this slowly over time.

176

I think a newb trying to use the mirror is not a good way to do things. Shit it’s hard even for someone who knows their body to use the mirror. And a natty looking a the mirror and expecting to see muscle gain every week will end up adding more fat and thinking its muscle since nattys gain muscle very very slowly

177

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I think X’s notion of a newb wasting months trying to figure things out is based off of an unrealistic image of everyone being supremely stupid when starting out (
S[/quote]

Actually, quite the opposite.

It is based on knowing what more of these variables actually are and knowing how pointless it is to act as if you can control all variables in a biological organism.

You control what you can. You learn about this slowly over time.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone truly believes in controlling all or even understanding all if the variables involved. Just a basic understanding is all that’s really necessary for a beginner. Constantly stressing the amount of details that aren’t really of concern doesn’t change things. Ive watched some great amateur BBers progress year after year with the most rudimentary comprehension of how to tweak and track their own progress. Yes attempting to chnge ones physical appearance is depending on some biology, but that doesn’t mean that you have to have any real understanding of Bio 101 to reach your physique goals.

S

178

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Yes attempting to chnge ones physical appearance is depending on some biology, but that doesn’t mean that you have to have any real understanding of Bio 101 to reach your physique goals.

S[/quote]

You do if you are telling people they need to track calories from day one within 200 calorie ranges as if any fat gain at all means failure.

179

I still have yet to see an argument for tracking calories beng a bad thing

180

I don’t think anyone has suggested that fat gain denotes failure, simply that your usual argument that a degree if fat gain coupled with your routinely using yourself as example isn’t an approach most younger trainers would want to employ in the look-better-now mindset often seen,nor is it Always the best approach. (See all and every example of this ‘discussion’ over the last few years).

Hasn’t this specific conversation occurred enough already? Any other gems for newbs? I thinking genie pants, work boots and shades are a gym no no and sometimes you need to dish out aLittle tough love.

S