Being a Newb

Training
61

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]gswork wrote:
When I see a newb post with diet detailed; 6 egg whites, cup of oats and all that I think they’re probably getting wrong
One day’s needs is not every day’s need
Even eating 4000 cals doesn’t mean you digest 4000 cals even day to day that can vary
It’s about the right foods, enough for growth, more than being exact about numbers
The body responds constantly within parameters and it takes time to learn that[/quote]

If you don’t track what you eat in some way shape your form you will not know what variable to change.there are so many variables when it comes to progress you should track am manipulate what you can. The best most accomplished physiques I have seen track their intake in some way. That’s a common denominator which leads to be believe there is benefit to it [/quote]
x2 on what Ryan said.

I don’t understand the “don’t track macros” crowd.
If you say 4,000 calories may not be enough because your body might not digest 4,000 calories then what are you supposed to do?
You have no way of knowing how many calories your body is going to digest in a given day.
So are you saying the answer is don’t track cals and macros and just make sure to eat everything in site so you know you’re getting enough?

What if your body doesn’t digest 5,000 that day?
What if it doesn’t digest 6k?
What about 7k?
It’s an impossibly guessing game.
I guarantee most of the guys who “know roughly” how many calories they are eating are off by a decent amount.

I agree that the body doesn’t use or digest the same amount of calories every day (obviously) and that is the premis behind low/medium/high days.
Give your body more fuel on days where you do more work.

Again, like Ryan said:
Virtually every single successful and well developed physique was built by someone who was tracking calories and tracking macros.
That is not a coincidence.[/quote]

Exactly…why would the fact that the human body is unpredictable in its use of calories mean that we should add more uncertainty by failing to know exactly what we are putting in our bodies?

62

I agree that tracking would be very beneficial for any beginner. I mean if the goal is to stand out amongst a crowd, and nutrition (in my opinion) is more important than the actual training, it makes sense to be smart in the area of nutrition as well.

63

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never got the whole “less is more” thing either considering there are times when to progress someone will need… uh… MORE than what they were doing before! With that said, I don’t see a need for anyone but the most advanced or those who compete in bodybuilding to weight train 5 to 6 times a week. Four times a week is enough for most, I believe.

I’ve heard some of John Meadows’ programs have seven days of lifting per week, and although I love the gym and exercising (I lift or do something else 6 days a week), I can’t see myself only lifting seven days in a row without snapping mentally or physically. [/quote]

Frequency can also change when you are enhanced with lots of chemicals.[/quote]

I can’t see myself being in the gym less than 7. [/quote]

I was going for you should be training more when on lots of chemicals… lol. As long as you are eating enough and sleeping every night, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about over training.

That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days.
[/quote]

Best joke of the month.

" That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days "

Any day you pick will end up in the middle after 2 weeks !

64

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Doggcrap is NOT recommended for newb trainers.
[/quote]

Yeah, but you were implying that training three days a week, even for non-beginners, would only lead to “maintaining.”

65

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]gswork wrote:
When I see a newb post with diet detailed; 6 egg whites, cup of oats and all that I think they’re probably getting wrong
One day’s needs is not every day’s need
Even eating 4000 cals doesn’t mean you digest 4000 cals even day to day that can vary
It’s about the right foods, enough for growth, more than being exact about numbers
The body responds constantly within parameters and it takes time to learn that[/quote]

If you don’t track what you eat in some way shape your form you will not know what variable to change.there are so many variables when it comes to progress you should track am manipulate what you can. The best most accomplished physiques I have seen track their intake in some way. That’s a common denominator which leads to be believe there is benefit to it [/quote]
x2 on what Ryan said.

I don’t understand the “don’t track macros” crowd.
If you say 4,000 calories may not be enough because your body might not digest 4,000 calories then what are you supposed to do?
You have no way of knowing how many calories your body is going to digest in a given day.
So are you saying the answer is don’t track cals and macros and just make sure to eat everything in site so you know you’re getting enough?

What if your body doesn’t digest 5,000 that day?
What if it doesn’t digest 6k?
What about 7k?
It’s an impossibly guessing game.
I guarantee most of the guys who “know roughly” how many calories they are eating are off by a decent amount.

I agree that the body doesn’t use or digest the same amount of calories every day (obviously) and that is the premis behind low/medium/high days.
Give your body more fuel on days where you do more work.

Again, like Ryan said:
Virtually every single successful and well developed physique was built by someone who was tracking calories and tracking macros.
That is not a coincidence.[/quote]

I’m not saying ‘eat whatever’ but for a newb I would say that ‘tracking’ to the point where every meal is fine tuned with x grams carbs x grams protein etc isn’t going to do many favours (unless diet was awful before, at least it’s a target then, still shouldn’t be ultra detailed)

People like to think they are in control and this can give them the illusion, the variances in digestion, hormone, recovery etc are much bigger, there’s too much going on everyday - an idea though, over longer periods those variances are more steady though adapting to body changes, at that level you do need better overall ideas about what your rough cals and macros have been so as to compare. So as you get more experience a record is more useful

You can get very close estimates of cals by checking what you eat frequently and doing some arithmetic but if it gets pedantic at the newb stage it had better be supported by in depth real knowledge of food & the body as the experience won’t be there yet

This is about the newbs just starting out after all

66

[quote]gswork wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]gswork wrote:
When I see a newb post with diet detailed; 6 egg whites, cup of oats and all that I think they’re probably getting wrong
One day’s needs is not every day’s need
Even eating 4000 cals doesn’t mean you digest 4000 cals even day to day that can vary
It’s about the right foods, enough for growth, more than being exact about numbers
The body responds constantly within parameters and it takes time to learn that[/quote]

If you don’t track what you eat in some way shape your form you will not know what variable to change.there are so many variables when it comes to progress you should track am manipulate what you can. The best most accomplished physiques I have seen track their intake in some way. That’s a common denominator which leads to be believe there is benefit to it [/quote]
x2 on what Ryan said.

I don’t understand the “don’t track macros” crowd.
If you say 4,000 calories may not be enough because your body might not digest 4,000 calories then what are you supposed to do?
You have no way of knowing how many calories your body is going to digest in a given day.
So are you saying the answer is don’t track cals and macros and just make sure to eat everything in site so you know you’re getting enough?

What if your body doesn’t digest 5,000 that day?
What if it doesn’t digest 6k?
What about 7k?
It’s an impossibly guessing game.
I guarantee most of the guys who “know roughly” how many calories they are eating are off by a decent amount.

I agree that the body doesn’t use or digest the same amount of calories every day (obviously) and that is the premis behind low/medium/high days.
Give your body more fuel on days where you do more work.

Again, like Ryan said:
Virtually every single successful and well developed physique was built by someone who was tracking calories and tracking macros.
That is not a coincidence.[/quote]

I’m not saying ‘eat whatever’ but for a newb I would say that ‘tracking’ to the point where every meal is fine tuned with x grams carbs x grams protein etc isn’t going to do many favours (unless diet was awful before, at least it’s a target then, still shouldn’t be ultra detailed)

People like to think they are in control and this can give them the illusion, the variances in digestion, hormone, recovery etc are much bigger, there’s too much going on everyday - an idea though, over longer periods those variances are more steady though adapting to body changes, at that level you do need better overall ideas about what your rough cals and macros have been so as to compare. So as you get more experience a record is more useful

You can get very close estimates of cals by checking what you eat frequently and doing some arithmetic but if it gets pedantic at the newb stage it had better be supported by in depth real knowledge of food & the body as the experience won’t be there yet

This is about the newbs just starting out after all
[/quote]

So because the body changes we shouldn’t keep track of what we’re eating… makes sense

Also how will newbs learn by trial and error if they’re just eating random shit and have no idea of the calories they’re taking in.

67

[quote]BHappy wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never got the whole “less is more” thing either considering there are times when to progress someone will need… uh… MORE than what they were doing before! With that said, I don’t see a need for anyone but the most advanced or those who compete in bodybuilding to weight train 5 to 6 times a week. Four times a week is enough for most, I believe.

I’ve heard some of John Meadows’ programs have seven days of lifting per week, and although I love the gym and exercising (I lift or do something else 6 days a week), I can’t see myself only lifting seven days in a row without snapping mentally or physically. [/quote]

Frequency can also change when you are enhanced with lots of chemicals.[/quote]

I can’t see myself being in the gym less than 7. [/quote]

I was going for you should be training more when on lots of chemicals… lol. As long as you are eating enough and sleeping every night, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about over training.

That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days.
[/quote]

Best joke of the month.

" That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days "

Any day you pick will end up in the middle after 2 weeks ![/quote]

How is that funny? He prefers to train for 3 days straight, take a day off, then train 3 days straight, rather than train 6 straight days with a rest day on the 7th…

68

[quote]Mtag666 wrote

So because the body changes we shouldn’t keep track of what we’re eating… makes sense

Also how will newbs learn by trial and error if they’re just eating random shit and have no idea of the calories they’re taking in.
[/quote]

So you didn’t actually read it then? Otherwise how could you think the above

Whats a diet of random shit? cant be much worse than systematic shit, unless youre a fly!

69

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never got the whole “less is more” thing either considering there are times when to progress someone will need… uh… MORE than what they were doing before! With that said, I don’t see a need for anyone but the most advanced or those who compete in bodybuilding to weight train 5 to 6 times a week. Four times a week is enough for most, I believe.

I’ve heard some of John Meadows’ programs have seven days of lifting per week, and although I love the gym and exercising (I lift or do something else 6 days a week), I can’t see myself only lifting seven days in a row without snapping mentally or physically. [/quote]

Frequency can also change when you are enhanced with lots of chemicals.[/quote]

I can’t see myself being in the gym less than 7. [/quote]

I was going for you should be training more when on lots of chemicals… lol. As long as you are eating enough and sleeping every night, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about over training.

That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days.
[/quote]

Best joke of the month.

" That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days "

Any day you pick will end up in the middle after 2 weeks ![/quote]

How is that funny? He prefers to train for 3 days straight, take a day off, then train 3 days straight, rather than train 6 straight days with a rest day on the 7th…
[/quote]

You don’t see how those are the same thing? No matter what, you’re gonna be training 6 days in a row.

70

What’s wrong with sticking with a fairly simple “track total calories” and “track total protein”, and just not worrying about the rest for now?

And then focus on two goals with that:

  1. Make sure the protein is 1+g/lb BW. Increase it if it’s not.
  2. Make sure the scale and mirror/photos are going in the right direction. Eat less or eat more, accordingly.

I think that strikes a good balance between being too analytical and just winging it. It also keeps things individualized, instead of relying on some calculation for what things “should” be.

71

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What’s wrong with sticking with a fairly simple “track total calories” and “track total protein”, and just not worrying about the rest for now?

And then focus on two goals with that:

  1. Make sure the protein is 1+g/lb BW. Increase it if it’s not.
  2. Make sure the scale and mirror/photos are going in the right direction. Eat less or eat more, accordingly.

I think that strikes a good balance between being too analytical and just winging it. It also keeps things individualized, instead of relying on some calculation for what things “should” be.[/quote]

Sounds good enough, learn rough cals from their own regular meals with quick arithmetic, add a bit and reflect every 2-3 weeks on progress

As with their focus on the training it shouldn’t get bogged down with details at this early stage (for most - i think Dorian Yates didn’t take too long before logging everything, but he had competitive intent)

that way the newb could learn on the go and at least hit protein needs and possibly avoid creating a forum thread in which they struggle with gains before revealing the 6 egg whites & cup of oats type diet.

we haven’t decided on how long the newb is in this beginning stage either - 6 months? a year?

Still, some years back every gains question seemed to be answered ‘milk and squats’ which sounds cool (maybe) but probably could do with a teeny bit more thinking

72

Length of time will depend. Where they a jock before? Is literally the first time they have exercised? How consistent they are once they start…I would say 4months to a year

73

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Length of time will depend. Where they a jock before? Is literally the first time they have exercised? How consistent they are once they start…I would say 4months to a year[/quote]
good point, their sports history makes a huge difference among other things, 4-12mnths seems a good scale

74

[quote]gswork wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
What’s wrong with sticking with a fairly simple “track total calories” and “track total protein”, and just not worrying about the rest for now?

And then focus on two goals with that:

  1. Make sure the protein is 1+g/lb BW. Increase it if it’s not.
  2. Make sure the scale and mirror/photos are going in the right direction. Eat less or eat more, accordingly.

I think that strikes a good balance between being too analytical and just winging it. It also keeps things individualized, instead of relying on some calculation for what things “should” be.[/quote]

Sounds good enough, learn rough cals from their own regular meals with quick arithmetic, add a bit and reflect every 2-3 weeks on progress

As with their focus on the training it shouldn’t get bogged down with details at this early stage (for most - i think Dorian Yates didn’t take too long before logging everything, but he had competitive intent)

that way the newb could learn on the go and at least hit protein needs and possibly avoid creating a forum thread in which they struggle with gains before revealing the 6 egg whites & cup of oats type diet.

we haven’t decided on how long the newb is in this beginning stage either - 6 months? a year?

Still, some years back every gains question seemed to be answered ‘milk and squats’ which sounds cool (maybe) but probably could do with a teeny bit more thinking

[/quote]
So now you agree that a newb should track their calories?
Cool, glad you came around :wink:

Serially though, if someone doesn’t know how many calories they’re getting and how much protein they’re getting then how can they adjust accordingly without basically taking a shot in the dark?
Ever heard of the saying:
You are to have a plan so you can deviate from it

75

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never got the whole “less is more” thing either considering there are times when to progress someone will need… uh… MORE than what they were doing before! With that said, I don’t see a need for anyone but the most advanced or those who compete in bodybuilding to weight train 5 to 6 times a week. Four times a week is enough for most, I believe.

I’ve heard some of John Meadows’ programs have seven days of lifting per week, and although I love the gym and exercising (I lift or do something else 6 days a week), I can’t see myself only lifting seven days in a row without snapping mentally or physically. [/quote]

Frequency can also change when you are enhanced with lots of chemicals.[/quote]

I can’t see myself being in the gym less than 7. [/quote]

I was going for you should be training more when on lots of chemicals… lol. As long as you are eating enough and sleeping every night, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about over training.

That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days.
[/quote]

Best joke of the month.

" That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days "

Any day you pick will end up in the middle after 2 weeks ![/quote]

How is that funny? He prefers to train for 3 days straight, take a day off, then train 3 days straight, rather than train 6 straight days with a rest day on the 7th…
[/quote]

You don’t see how those are the same thing? No matter what, you’re gonna be training 6 days in a row.
[/quote]

How I said it could be confusing. Every fourth day is a rest day for me. Sometimes I will go in and just hit some abs, but mostly I rest and focus on what I need to get done around the house etc. Hope that clears it up.

76

One of the prime reasons I believe I spun my wheels for so long when I started training was that I just sort of followed along, and never really learned WHY I should do certain things. Nor was I explained to certain guidelines that might have granted me some latitude while still allowing progress towards my goals. I’ve no doubt that had I a better understanding of the variables involved I could have made adjustments towards fitting ‘this’ into the rest of my life accordingly.

Now, I’m not saying I, or any beginner, would magically have an expert eye to truly assess progress at the level I do now after 20 years, but as Yates always stressed (and everyone here knows I’m fond of the man’s methodical approach to training and nutrition): if you don’t know what you’re doing, you can’t know what changes are available to make and if they’re having a positive effect.

As a teacher, I can tell you that a lack of understanding of their subject matter (as opposed to simply following repetitive actions) is where most students find themselves failing.

S

77

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Doggcrap is NOT recommended for newb trainers.
[/quote]

Yeah, but you were implying that training three days a week, even for non-beginners, would only lead to “maintaining.”[/quote]

Right. Andy Bolton has a 1,000 pound deadlift resulting from training three time per week. Brad Gillingham also trains three times per week.

78

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never got the whole “less is more” thing either considering there are times when to progress someone will need… uh… MORE than what they were doing before! With that said, I don’t see a need for anyone but the most advanced or those who compete in bodybuilding to weight train 5 to 6 times a week. Four times a week is enough for most, I believe.

I’ve heard some of John Meadows’ programs have seven days of lifting per week, and although I love the gym and exercising (I lift or do something else 6 days a week), I can’t see myself only lifting seven days in a row without snapping mentally or physically. [/quote]

Frequency can also change when you are enhanced with lots of chemicals.[/quote]

I can’t see myself being in the gym less than 7. [/quote]

I was going for you should be training more when on lots of chemicals… lol. As long as you are eating enough and sleeping every night, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about over training.

That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days.
[/quote]

Best joke of the month.

" That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days "

Any day you pick will end up in the middle after 2 weeks ![/quote]

How is that funny? He prefers to train for 3 days straight, take a day off, then train 3 days straight, rather than train 6 straight days with a rest day on the 7th…
[/quote]
Take the 3 days after his day off and add the 3 first days of the fallowing week voila, he trained 6 days straight. I know i usualy train 6 days.

79

[quote]BHappy wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never got the whole “less is more” thing either considering there are times when to progress someone will need… uh… MORE than what they were doing before! With that said, I don’t see a need for anyone but the most advanced or those who compete in bodybuilding to weight train 5 to 6 times a week. Four times a week is enough for most, I believe.

I’ve heard some of John Meadows’ programs have seven days of lifting per week, and although I love the gym and exercising (I lift or do something else 6 days a week), I can’t see myself only lifting seven days in a row without snapping mentally or physically. [/quote]

Frequency can also change when you are enhanced with lots of chemicals.[/quote]

I can’t see myself being in the gym less than 7. [/quote]

I was going for you should be training more when on lots of chemicals… lol. As long as you are eating enough and sleeping every night, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about over training.

That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days.
[/quote]

Best joke of the month.

" That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days "

Any day you pick will end up in the middle after 2 weeks ![/quote]

How is that funny? He prefers to train for 3 days straight, take a day off, then train 3 days straight, rather than train 6 straight days with a rest day on the 7th…
[/quote]
Take the 3 days after his day off and add the 3 first days of the fallowing week voila, he trained 6 days straight. I know i usualy train 6 days.[/quote]

I swore I wasn’t gonna do any math this summer between semesters guys, don’t do this to me! Lol yeah I see what you mean now, my bad

80

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never got the whole “less is more” thing either considering there are times when to progress someone will need… uh… MORE than what they were doing before! With that said, I don’t see a need for anyone but the most advanced or those who compete in bodybuilding to weight train 5 to 6 times a week. Four times a week is enough for most, I believe.

I’ve heard some of John Meadows’ programs have seven days of lifting per week, and although I love the gym and exercising (I lift or do something else 6 days a week), I can’t see myself only lifting seven days in a row without snapping mentally or physically. [/quote]

Frequency can also change when you are enhanced with lots of chemicals.[/quote]

I can’t see myself being in the gym less than 7. [/quote]

I was going for you should be training more when on lots of chemicals… lol. As long as you are eating enough and sleeping every night, you shouldn’t have to ever worry about over training.

That said I like to train 6 days a week with a day off in the middle of the 6 days.
[/quote]

I still train like that.

To grow optimally, you need constant stimulus. You may be able to “maintain” a certain condition only training three times a week, but I wouldn’t expect someone to really shock others with their muscle growth over time using that approach alone.[/quote]

Stop talking like it is some universal truth that all newbs grow better training 5 days a week. Even for intermediate to advanced lifters, there are a ton of big strong men training 3-4 days a week. Really the guys who train dc don’t wow you with their size?

There is a reason many beginner programs and coaches train beginners 3 and sometimes Maybe 4 times a week. Beginners do not require large amounts of volume and thrive off of more simple/ frequent training. Why have a newb trash a muscle once a week, when they could pick 1-2 exercises performed multiple times a week and progress at a faster rate.

There is a lot more to training than simply how many days a week one trains. Intensity, frequency, volume, Individual recovery all have an impact on the way you design a routine…