[quote]Professor X wrote:
As far as “splits vs full body” I don’t even care to start a war over that. I just know I see more really huge guys who don’t train that way than do and it works better for me to train in regards to body parts trained that day. I will always feel as if those who desire well balanced growth anywhere near “extreme” that this is the best way to go. Others can believe what they want.[/quote]
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
As most of these threads seem to go, this has turned into a debate about whether or not “bulking” is the best option. I understand that diet is an integral part of the equation. It is pretty much imperative that an individual stays on top of satisfying their nutritional needs if they want to make gains. However, I feel that other areas of this lifestyle are often neglected when discussing what is best for the “newb”. Still hate that word.
For instance, I believe that getting enough sleep is mandatory for optimal recovery. When starting out, I made sure to give myself as much sleep to recover as possible, sometimes sleeping for 10 hours or so. A new trainee can blast away in the gym and eat like a monster, but they still need that deep sleep to rebuild tissue. Something else I would advocate that a beginner do is to invest in glutamine or something similar to aid in recovery from DOMS.
I know that, when I was first starting out, DOMS fucking killed me. For some beginners, that can be the deciding factor in whether or not they stick with it and commit to this lifestyle. It’s best that a “newb” handle small things like this very early on in order to facilitate an environment in which it is easiest to keep pushing.[/quote]
Good point.
This thread is drifting off course, lets yet to steer it back.
I think the most important thing for new lifters is 1. Consistency in the gym and 2. Proper nutrition.
Sleep is important as well but I would put it a little further down the priority list.
IMO a new lifter needs to learn the basics and get out of the “it’s spring break in 6 weeks! Gotta get big/ripped”
This is a long term endeavor.
Learn to stay consistent and don’t program hop.
Learn the importance of eating a surplus of calories EVERY DAY, not just every once in a while.
Learn how to preform lifts properly and knock of the “ego lifting” that we all fell victim to.
Get enough rest/sleep to recover.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Stressful work environments and various other daily stresses will balance out in terms of your diet over time. We’ve all know people with physical labor jobs who still manage to make gains, it’s all about balancing the equation. It’s similar to counting/not counting green vegetables in your daily macros. Either do it one way all the time, or do it then other way all the time. The net balance in terms of if you need to alter #s or adjust work volume with be the same. This was just made to sound much more complicated than it needs to be, that’s all.
S[/quote]
That’s because the body is amazing at regulating metabolism. Which is why ppl can diet themselves into a hole and not be able to lose on 1500 cals w/ cardio and weights. Or some people who gain in a smart matter can be maintaining or slowly gaining weight at 4-5k with a much smaller amount of activity.
Agreed with the counting as well. I think the easiest way is Shelby’s. count the main macro only. Don’t count green veggies. [/quote]
I like this idea, makes it much easier to count. I assume that overall calories are less of an issue because macros are just changed when needed? So for example if fat loss has stalled 50g carbs/10g fat + 25g carbs/any similar combination can be removed from the daily total as opposed to tracking exactly how many calories are being taken out?
[quote]The Rattler wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Stressful work environments and various other daily stresses will balance out in terms of your diet over time. We’ve all know people with physical labor jobs who still manage to make gains, it’s all about balancing the equation. It’s similar to counting/not counting green vegetables in your daily macros. Either do it one way all the time, or do it then other way all the time. The net balance in terms of if you need to alter #s or adjust work volume with be the same. This was just made to sound much more complicated than it needs to be, that’s all.
S[/quote]
That’s because the body is amazing at regulating metabolism. Which is why ppl can diet themselves into a hole and not be able to lose on 1500 cals w/ cardio and weights. Or some people who gain in a smart matter can be maintaining or slowly gaining weight at 4-5k with a much smaller amount of activity.
Agreed with the counting as well. I think the easiest way is Shelby’s. count the main macro only. Don’t count green veggies. [/quote]
I like this idea, makes it much easier to count. I assume that overall calories are less of an issue because macros are just changed when needed? So for example if fat loss has stalled 50g carbs/10g fat + 25g carbs/any similar combination can be removed from the daily total as opposed to tracking exactly how many calories are being taken out?[/quote]
Yep as long as you do it the same eat time that’s all that matters. It’s always relative. Just being consistent with how you measure and calculate. Tis way is jsut a bit faster and easier But yes just cut the macros
I don’t necessarily think that 500 cal increases vs 200 cal increases is out of control bulking vs lean bulking. I have always tried to stay lean, but I used only 500 cal increases over the first 6 months. For one, it made it easier to get into the habit of the lifestyle because I can be within 500 cals just guessing on portion sizes after some practice (tested this) and for two, bigger jumps helped me to get to exactly what my body needed faster.
As far as exact method, I just used a mirror and scale, set cals for two weeks (I never do anything for less than two weeks), Check scale to see if weight went up, Check mirror to see if I can still see all the same definition that I used to or better. If the answer is yes to both then I will leave it there for a couple more weeks. If I didn’t go up in weight but look leaner I will add 500. If I look fatter and gained weight, cut out a snack, if I look fatter and stayed the same I will leave cals as is, increase protein portions, and reevaluate in 2 weeks.
Not the most scientific approach I know but its easy and it works. Almost anyone with a decent metabolism should be able to hover around the 10-12% mark with that approach.
I mean most eat something pretty similar every day. Even as a newb, whatever diet they choose, they are going to find eating some of the same meals every day is just going to make this ‘easier’.
I think increasing by 200 cals or 500 cals is just semantics. I mean, my recent gaining phase I was only going up about 200 cals a week, and I would see a visual difference week to week.
But I could see 500 cals could be valid too. It’s really just preference IMO. If I went up 500 cals, all it would probably mean is I would stay at the caloric intake longer then i would had I increased it by 200 cals.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I don’t necessarily think that 500 cal increases vs 200 cal increases is out of control bulking vs lean bulking. I have always tried to stay lean, but I used only 500 cal increases over the first 6 months. For one, it made it easier to get into the habit of the lifestyle because I can be within 500 cals just guessing on portion sizes after some practice (tested this) and for two, bigger jumps helped me to get to exactly what my body needed faster.
As far as exact method, I just used a mirror and scale, set cals for two weeks (I never do anything for less than two weeks), Check scale to see if weight went up, Check mirror to see if I can still see all the same definition that I used to or better. If the answer is yes to both then I will leave it there for a couple more weeks. If I didn’t go up in weight but look leaner I will add 500. If I look fatter and gained weight, cut out a snack, if I look fatter and stayed the same I will leave cals as is, increase protein portions, and reevaluate in 2 weeks.
Not the most scientific approach I know but its easy and it works. Almost anyone with a decent metabolism should be able to hover around the 10-12% mark with that approach.[/quote]
Good post. I am not sure how the subject of bulking even came up.
It seems the same people will bring the same tired arguments with them no matter what gets written.
This is about making sure a newbie doesn’t waste time when they could be making optimal gains in muscle mass.
If a newb can’t handle a 500 calorie increase when they were seeing no gains at all before, something is wrong.
It seems like arguing semantics beyond that.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
I don’t see why people are discrediting a 200 calorie bump but a 500 calorie bump is totally fine?
The argument has been that you can burn those 200 extra calories just by being stressed or running for the bus that day yet the se thing could happen for 500 calories.
Double your stress, double your bus run, 500 calories are used up.
I understand and agree with the K.I.S. mentality but starting with a 200 calorie increase isn’t bad.
If 200 calories isn’t enough then you bump it up.
After its bumped by another couple hundred calories you’re right there at the magic “500 calorie increase” mark, it may have just taken another week or two.
What is one or two weeks in a lifetime of lifting?
That’s nothing.
Start slow, see how your body responds and adjust accordingly.[/quote]
I am not trying to say that 200 cal a day adjustments are useless or even that they don’t work. Just that for most newbs, I think operating in that 500 cal increment realm for a little while is exact enough until certain lifestyle habits can be established. Realistically, I think 500 cals is going to be as close as you can get by estimating portion sizes and a lot of newbs seem to find the weigh and measure thing frustrating. Granted this would also depend on the newbs goals, if we are talking about a newb who aspires to get on stage well then obviously he better learn to make precision more of a habit than some who just wants to look and feel good.
I felt like I probably needed to clarify some of my comments.