Beginner's Handgun for Home Protection?

Off Topic
81

[quote]furo wrote:
Sorry for the slight derail, but I, like lemony2j, am British and I have no experience with firearms outside a hunting situation and I don’t really have an opinion either way on American gun laws etc as I’m simply not informed on the topic.

Out of interest how many of you guys have been in a scenario where your firearm contributed to keeping you or your family safe (excluding experiences as an LEO/military/gangbanger)? Obviously I’m not expecting you to go into the details, but I’d just be interested to hear how many people have been in situations like the one Stu described, and in which the outcome was altered by having a firearm.

Thanks![/quote]

I have thankfully never had to use a firearm to defend against or deter intruders outside of a military context, but you may be interested to read about a 10 million dollar study by the Center for Disease Control (usually a very anti-gun biased organization) commissioned by president Barack Obama (also very biased against personal weapons in the hands of the citizenry) which concluded that “the use of firearms for self-defense is an important crime deterrent.”

http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent

It is interesting to note that the rate of violent crime in the United States is declining as firearms sales and concealed weapons permits are increasing at an unprecedented rate. Compare this to the rise in violent crime in The United Kingdom ever since the comprehensive bans on firearms and self-defense in general were enacted in 1997 after the Lockerbie shooting.

Not everyone seems happy about the situation, as you may imagine.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3644/britain_wants_its_guns_back

82

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:
Sorry for the slight derail, but I, like lemony2j, am British and I have no experience with firearms outside a hunting situation and I don’t really have an opinion either way on American gun laws etc as I’m simply not informed on the topic.

Out of interest how many of you guys have been in a scenario where your firearm contributed to keeping you or your family safe (excluding experiences as an LEO/military/gangbanger)? Obviously I’m not expecting you to go into the details, but I’d just be interested to hear how many people have been in situations like the one Stu described, and in which the outcome was altered by having a firearm.

Thanks![/quote]

I have thankfully never had to use a firearm to defend against or deter intruders outside of a military context, but you may be interested to read about a 10 million dollar study by the Center for Disease Control (usually a very anti-gun biased organization) commissioned by president Barack Obama (also very biased against personal weapons in the hands of the citizenry) which concluded that “the use of firearms for self-defense is an important crime deterrent.”

http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent

It is interesting to note that the rate of violent crime in the United States is declining as firearms sales and concealed weapons permits are increasing at an unprecedented rate. Compare this to the rise in violent crime in The United Kingdom ever since the comprehensive bans on firearms and self-defense in general were enacted in 1997 after the Lockerbie shooting.

Not everyone seems happy about the situation, as you may imagine.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3644/britain_wants_its_guns_back[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Varqanir, those links are very interesting.

83

[quote]furo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:
Sorry for the slight derail, but I, like lemony2j, am British and I have no experience with firearms outside a hunting situation and I don’t really have an opinion either way on American gun laws etc as I’m simply not informed on the topic.

Out of interest how many of you guys have been in a scenario where your firearm contributed to keeping you or your family safe (excluding experiences as an LEO/military/gangbanger)? Obviously I’m not expecting you to go into the details, but I’d just be interested to hear how many people have been in situations like the one Stu described, and in which the outcome was altered by having a firearm.

Thanks![/quote]

I have thankfully never had to use a firearm to defend against or deter intruders outside of a military context, but you may be interested to read about a 10 million dollar study by the Center for Disease Control (usually a very anti-gun biased organization) commissioned by president Barack Obama (also very biased against personal weapons in the hands of the citizenry) which concluded that “the use of firearms for self-defense is an important crime deterrent.”

http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent

It is interesting to note that the rate of violent crime in the United States is declining as firearms sales and concealed weapons permits are increasing at an unprecedented rate. Compare this to the rise in violent crime in The United Kingdom ever since the comprehensive bans on firearms and self-defense in general were enacted in 1997 after the Lockerbie shooting.

Not everyone seems happy about the situation, as you may imagine.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3644/britain_wants_its_guns_back[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Varqanir, those links are very interesting.
[/quote]

You’re welcome. And I meant to say Dunblane, not Lockerbie. Right country, wrong tragedy.

84

I’ll second the shotgun suggestion. Get a 20 gauge 870 youth model. Say you use it to shoot trap once a year, so if they try to prosecute you in a criminal or civil suite for defending yourself, you don’t like like the stereotypically gun guy waiting for the opportunity to kill a criminal.

Most people who don’t put in time learning to shoot a handgun and even a lot who do, can’t shoot worth a damn, much less with a big DA trigger pull and the crappy sights on a lot of revolvers. Add in stress and its a nightmare situation.

With a shotgun, its shoulder mounted, so actually holding the weapon, acquiring a sight picture, and putting rounds on the bad guy is a lot easier.

If you do get a handgun, get a laser with it. Perfect for low light home defense. Make sure you check the batteries on it once a week or so.

85

Stu, take a low light tactical class. It is awesome and you’ll quickly find out that most advice you get from buddies and sources such as this will get you or loved ones killed quick ( sorry guys and gals) . At the end of this class you can make an informed decision as to what you want gear wise and you’ll have a much better skilset to execute a plan you come up with.

86

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
A 20 gauge shotgun would be my choice for an apartment dweller in New York.

The permitting should be easier for a long gun and a 20 gauge is easily handled by a woman compared to a 12.

The shells (buck shot) can penetrate through a wall but not nearly as easy as a bullet. The knock down force would be the equivalent of 6-10 9mm shots from a handgun.

Beretta is my favorite shotgun, bar none.

If you insist on a handgun, NYC has that new magazine limit of 7 which removes most semi autos that are decent.

My handgun recommendation is a .357 magnum revolver with a longish barrel because the longer barrel will help subsequent shot placement.

Revolvers are much less likely to malfunction in the hands of an amateur, as well.

Taurus makes a nice 7 shot .357.

The king of all .357s is the Colt Python ( as seen on the Walking Dead). They are no longer made, but you can still find them new.

Also if the .357 is too much pistol, you can load it with .38 rounds. Because the .357 is a more robust pistol than the .38, you will experience much less felt recoil.
[/quote]

What barrel length would you recommend? Is it a longer is better situation or find what’s most comfortable?

87

[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Stu, take a low light tactical class. It is awesome and you’ll quickly find out that most advice you get from buddies and sources such as this will get you or loved ones killed quick ( sorry guys and gals) . At the end of this class you can make an informed decision as to what you want gear wise and you’ll have a much better skilset to execute a plan you come up with. [/quote]

This is a good idea, but I’d recommend a basic handgun course first. Don’t put the cart before the horse.

Most credible instructors will tell if you ever think there is an intruder in your home, to take cover in most likely your bedroom with your weapon and call the police. Then sit there and wait.

I’ve taken tactical courses, been in kill houses, and been taught search and room clearing techniques. They even do force on force drills with in the dark with flashlights and marking rounds. At each step, the instructors tell you don’t do a search unless you absolutely have to because it is the most dangerous thing you can do.

There’s a lot of technique involved, which must be practiced rigorously, and its not a skill maintainable by most people with lives and hobbies who do not involve specifically practicing search and clearing techniques. Popping off some rounds at the local range once a week on a stationary target with a stationary shooter does not count.

88

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
A 20 gauge shotgun would be my choice for an apartment dweller in New York.

The permitting should be easier for a long gun and a 20 gauge is easily handled by a woman compared to a 12.

The shells (buck shot) can penetrate through a wall but not nearly as easy as a bullet. The knock down force would be the equivalent of 6-10 9mm shots from a handgun.

Beretta is my favorite shotgun, bar none.

If you insist on a handgun, NYC has that new magazine limit of 7 which removes most semi autos that are decent.

My handgun recommendation is a .357 magnum revolver with a longish barrel because the longer barrel will help subsequent shot placement.

Revolvers are much less likely to malfunction in the hands of an amateur, as well.

Taurus makes a nice 7 shot .357.

The king of all .357s is the Colt Python ( as seen on the Walking Dead). They are no longer made, but you can still find them new.

Also if the .357 is too much pistol, you can load it with .38 rounds. Because the .357 is a more robust pistol than the .38, you will experience much less felt recoil.
[/quote]

What barrel length would you recommend? Is it a longer is better situation or find what’s most comfortable?
[/quote]

Depends on your intent to carry. If it’s not a carry gun I would go with a 6 in barrel, very easy point and shoot. If you carry, 3 in barrel. Harder to point and shoot, but the difference between a .357 and say a 9 mm is stopping power. 1 shot from a .357 will usually stop anybody. It may take 2 or 3 from a lesser round. I switch between 9 and .357 for carry and I carry as much as I am legally allowed to. Of course I keep the 9 loaded with Buffalo Bore +P+ ammo so that does even the playing field a bit between a 9 and a .357.
Revolvers are reliable, tough, accurate and easy to load and maintain.

In the end it’s all personal preference. Find what works for you, know the laws in your area.

89

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
A 20 gauge shotgun would be my choice for an apartment dweller in New York.

The permitting should be easier for a long gun and a 20 gauge is easily handled by a woman compared to a 12.

The shells (buck shot) can penetrate through a wall but not nearly as easy as a bullet. The knock down force would be the equivalent of 6-10 9mm shots from a handgun.

Beretta is my favorite shotgun, bar none.

If you insist on a handgun, NYC has that new magazine limit of 7 which removes most semi autos that are decent.

My handgun recommendation is a .357 magnum revolver with a longish barrel because the longer barrel will help subsequent shot placement.

Revolvers are much less likely to malfunction in the hands of an amateur, as well.

Taurus makes a nice 7 shot .357.

The king of all .357s is the Colt Python ( as seen on the Walking Dead). They are no longer made, but you can still find them new.

Also if the .357 is too much pistol, you can load it with .38 rounds. Because the .357 is a more robust pistol than the .38, you will experience much less felt recoil.
[/quote]

I agree with all of this but one caveat about shotguns: they still are not as simple to use, especially for a beginner, in high stress situations as a double action revolver. They just aren’t.

For instance, a few nights ago I was awakened by my dog barking; it is very rare for him to bark. If he (pit bull) does something had definitely alarmed him. Chances are very high it was just deer in the yard or turkeys on the porch or such. I was tempted to blow it off and go back to sleep. Instead I forced myself to do my due diligence.

Grabbed my Mossberg 12 ga. and toured the house in the dark. Then went outdoors in the dark and went to rack the slide (I normally keep an empty chamber) both for the sound effect warning to a potential intruder and of course, to load the chamber. Problem was the cocking indicator (action release) had not been released like normal. Had I been in an immediate life or death situation the seconds that it took for me to realize what had happened could have proved fatal.[/quote]

The only thing I don’t necessarily agree with is making noise with your firearm to scare an intruder. If they are armed, you just gave away your position and it could spook them into rapid fire in your general direction.

90

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
A 20 gauge shotgun would be my choice for an apartment dweller in New York.

The permitting should be easier for a long gun and a 20 gauge is easily handled by a woman compared to a 12.

The shells (buck shot) can penetrate through a wall but not nearly as easy as a bullet. The knock down force would be the equivalent of 6-10 9mm shots from a handgun.

Beretta is my favorite shotgun, bar none.

If you insist on a handgun, NYC has that new magazine limit of 7 which removes most semi autos that are decent.

My handgun recommendation is a .357 magnum revolver with a longish barrel because the longer barrel will help subsequent shot placement.

Revolvers are much less likely to malfunction in the hands of an amateur, as well.

Taurus makes a nice 7 shot .357.

The king of all .357s is the Colt Python ( as seen on the Walking Dead). They are no longer made, but you can still find them new.

Also if the .357 is too much pistol, you can load it with .38 rounds. Because the .357 is a more robust pistol than the .38, you will experience much less felt recoil.
[/quote]

What barrel length would you recommend? Is it a longer is better situation or find what’s most comfortable?
[/quote]

Depends on your intent to carry. If it’s not a carry gun I would go with a 6 in barrel, very easy point and shoot. If you carry, 3 in barrel. Harder to point and shoot, but the difference between a .357 and say a 9 mm is stopping power. 1 shot from a .357 will usually stop anybody. It may take 2 or 3 from a lesser round. I switch between 9 and .357 for carry and I carry as much as I am legally allowed to. Of course I keep the 9 loaded with Buffalo Bore +P+ ammo so that does even the playing field a bit between a 9 and a .357.
Revolvers are reliable, tough, accurate and easy to load and maintain.

In the end it’s all personal preference. Find what works for you, know the laws in your area. [/quote]

I assumed your 9mm would be +++++++P+++++++, lol. I made the mistake of letting a couple buddies show me their arsenals last night and now I’m jealous. The problem is that I can’t really afford to shoot anything more than 22lr. Maybe I’ll become a surplus nut.

Anyone have any advice on reliable surplus handguns? Preferably with readily available ammo.

91

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
A 20 gauge shotgun would be my choice for an apartment dweller in New York.

The permitting should be easier for a long gun and a 20 gauge is easily handled by a woman compared to a 12.

The shells (buck shot) can penetrate through a wall but not nearly as easy as a bullet. The knock down force would be the equivalent of 6-10 9mm shots from a handgun.

Beretta is my favorite shotgun, bar none.

If you insist on a handgun, NYC has that new magazine limit of 7 which removes most semi autos that are decent.

My handgun recommendation is a .357 magnum revolver with a longish barrel because the longer barrel will help subsequent shot placement.

Revolvers are much less likely to malfunction in the hands of an amateur, as well.

Taurus makes a nice 7 shot .357.

The king of all .357s is the Colt Python ( as seen on the Walking Dead). They are no longer made, but you can still find them new.

Also if the .357 is too much pistol, you can load it with .38 rounds. Because the .357 is a more robust pistol than the .38, you will experience much less felt recoil.
[/quote]

What barrel length would you recommend? Is it a longer is better situation or find what’s most comfortable?
[/quote]

Shotgun – shortest possible, I think 17 inches. I would not get a pistol grip or any of that crap. Just a regular shotgun, short, tactical.

Pistol, since NYC is basically impossible to have a carry, I’d get the longest possible — 6 inches with a .357, most commonly.

Why? The stubby barrels don’t let a .357 reach full velocity and a long barrel is typically ported (and the pistol has more mass), so the pistol will both have less felt recoil and be easier to control.

92

I have only scanned the thread at the moment, but has anyone mentioned Stu lives in NYC?

Therefore his options are limited, and will likely NOT get an LTC… They may have some shall issue permits for in home fire arms, but this is NYC. They might not be willing to let you have a firearm, period…

93

[quote]furo wrote:
Sorry for the slight derail, but I, like lemony2j, am British and I have no experience with firearms outside a hunting situation and I don’t really have an opinion either way on American gun laws etc as I’m simply not informed on the topic.

Out of interest how many of you guys have been in a scenario where your firearm contributed to keeping you or your family safe (excluding experiences as an LEO/military/gangbanger)? Obviously I’m not expecting you to go into the details, but I’d just be interested to hear how many people have been in situations like the one Stu described, and in which the outcome was altered by having a firearm.

Thanks![/quote]

On the ranch (this is eastern NM), we have a huge number of illegals and drug runners traveling through to get around the customs stops on I-10 and the other big highways. I’ve had some tense situations on the ranch, where my ranch rifle (an AR-15) was pointed at “lost strangers” I told to get the fuck off my land (along with the ARs of my foreman and his helper). If we were not armed, I have no doubt we would have been shot ourselves and left for dead.

One time an Army buddy with PTSD who insisted on being my backup in a tense confrontation with the hotheaded brother of an ex-girlfriend (who was a suspended cop — the brother, that is). My buddy sat in a tree and was prepared to snipe the guy. This ended with no event.

2-3 times in El Paso and once in Houston during the livestock show when my hand went to my GLOCK or .357 in my jacket pocket and prepared to shoot “panhandlers” (read: likely mugger given the opportunity) who come up to you at gas stations — just at the ready, not fired. But they figured out quickly what I was doing and ran.

94

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I have only scanned the thread at the moment, but has anyone mentioned Stu lives in NYC?

Therefore his options are limited, and will likely NOT get an LTC… They may have some shall issue permits for in home fire arms, but this is NYC. They might not be willing to let you have a firearm, period…[/quote]

That’s one of the reasons I think a shotgun is the path of least resistence. Long guns are easy to license in NYC because they are not particularly concealable unless you wander around in a duster* all day.

  • Like a trenchcoat, but for cowboys.
95

I know SkyzykS has a very young son (infant still, right?) so his hesitation probably comes from his son not being able to be gun trained for the next 3-4 years. I’m in the same boat (almost 2 year old) so my hesitations are the same.

That said, a friend of mine has one of those gun vaults with the pin key. WHEN I get a gun for home defense, it will have mag in and be in the vault. I’d probably keep a round in the chamber but that part I’m not sure about. I think I would be safe to leave the gun unloaded with the mag laying next to it in my night stand as I don’t expect him to be able to piece the processes together anytime soon.

I do have a 12 gauge remington wingmaster with a short barrel, side ammo holder, and extended ammo capactiy. I actually need to get it out and do some work with it as it has been a while. I also need to determine my strategy for storage. Right now it is separated from any ammo and still in its bag

96

I don’t know. I have a 15 year old boy, and a (will be soon) 2 year old girl.

I have zero reservations about keeping firearms in the house.

The boy wants an AR, and my daughter will have a .22 in her hands as soon as I trust she won’t do anything foolish.

Education and awareness

97

Yeah, I am thinking the 12 or 20 gauge would be a good home defense option for someone unfamiliar with guns. A Taurus Judge loaded with buckshot would be my next choice. .38 special revolver would be 3rd followed by a 9mm auto. This is family use gun. Which my wife shoots a 1911 better than she shoots anything else so you never really know.

99

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Yeah, I am thinking the 12 or 20 gauge would be a good home defense option for someone unfamiliar with guns. A Taurus Judge loaded with buckshot would be my next choice. .38 special revolver would be 3rd followed by a 9mm auto. This is family use gun. Which my wife shoots a 1911 better than she shoots anything else so you never really know.[/quote]

My wife gets very impatient, so semi’s aren’t really her thing. She needs a quick trigger for the same reason, lol. She is no nonsense, let’s do this type and it shows when she has a firearm in her hands.

100

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Yeah, I am thinking the 12 or 20 gauge would be a good home defense option for someone unfamiliar with guns. A Taurus Judge loaded with buckshot would be my next choice. .38 special revolver would be 3rd followed by a 9mm auto. This is family use gun. Which my wife shoots a 1911 better than she shoots anything else so you never really know.[/quote]

I strongly disagree with those who recommend the Taurus Judge.

It’s a fine pistol, if you are shooting snakes or the like things that would be hard to hit with a pistol and maybe want to load in a couple .45 long colt to discourage a bear or the like, but 2 legged predators? . . . a .357 is superior, both as a distance weapon and penetration — plus, you typically get 2 more rounds in a .357 than a judge.

Now, would I want to get hit in the face with bird shot or a slug from a Taurus judge? No, not particularly. But I’d probably live from even a close range shot to the chest of .410 of anything but 00 buck or a slug from such a short barrel.

Nor would I want to be hit with a .45 long colt from the Judge. But, if I was going to carry a .45 long colt, I’d carry a .45 long colt with a almost eight inch barrel like my top break Schofield. I can make a head shot at 50 yards with that.

A .357, in contrast to the Judge, would most likely be fatal, and it’s more accurate than the judge.