Beginner's Handgun for Home Protection?

Off Topic
61

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Get a dog. [/quote]

He already has one.

If you are prepared to invest in a breed specifically bred for protection, then invest the time and energy to train it to attack intruders (but only on command), don’t mind potential lawsuits if the dog mauls the wrong person, and don’t mind hospitalization in case your dog ever turns on you (as a good friend of mine experienced when his Doberman, who had up to that moment been the sweetest, most even tempered dog imaginable, just decided one day to take a chunk out of his leg), then by all means get a dog.

Of course, dogs can be shot, poisoned, bribed with meat, or at very least, their heads bashed in with a baseball bat, as happened to a German Sheperd who was guarding an electronics store in my town. The dog survived, but she lost an eye.

You are responsible for your own protection and that of your family. Not the police, not the military, not your neighbor, not your dog, not your god.

You.

Why not equip yourself accordingly?

62

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
A gun used primarily for home defense and kept unloaded is useless. Should this unfortunate event, or something similar happen again, you will not have the time or wherewithal to find, load, and shoot an intruder intent on causing you harm. This is especially true if you do not plan on practicing much with the weapon. Without training, fine motor skills are greatly eroded when your adrenaline surges. Keep it loaded and shoot it often. Even dry fire practice is of great benefit.[/quote]

After seeing the “keep it loaded otherwise it is useless” response a few times now I’m curious.

Do you guys keep loaded guns around with kids in the house?

If so, what precautions do you take to ensure it doesn’t get into their hands?

Is it on you at all times?
[/quote]

By the same token, does anyone keep sharp kitchen knives where kids can get to them? How about bleach and detergent? Car keys? Stoves? Prescription drugs? Under lock and key or on your person at all times, right? And what about power tools? Certainly no child should be able to reach a circular saw or electric drill at any time.

Come on. Guns are like any potentially dangerous thing. You teach your children how to operate them safely if they are old enough, or to never touch if they are not.

Ideally, yes. Your defensive handgun should be like your cell phone or your wallet: on your person unless you are in bed or in the shower. And then it is within immediate reach. [/quote]

Not trying to derail it into rhetoric, so do you have kids and loaded guns in the same house?

If so what precautions do you take?

They are very simple and direct questions.

FTR, I learned to shoot a .22 at 4yrs. old, but the guns were kept unloaded and locked up separately from the ammo.

63

Just starting out I’d not get a shotgun for home defense. Simply because there is the “shock” factor after letting a round go and your ability to recover from the echo in the room and flash. Police are trained to be able to shoot quick and are somewhat numb to those effects. Now I know one round is all you may need, maybe.

The revolver is a great starting point. If ammo is expensive in your area and could limit your shooting practice I hear that airsoft guns come in models that shoot those bb’s just as fast as a bullet. A friend of mine who’s LEO says he knows of a few guys who use airsoft guns to practice since ammo is expensive here. Or, they have laser guns with targets that they sell on amazon for a few hundred where you can practice all day, any day - my firearm license instructor had one and let us all try it out. Pretty cool.

Caliber, also same issues with shotgun shells. The larger, the more “recovery” you’ll need. I know a .22 isn’t looked highly upon but try and fire .22 up to .45. You’ll get to feel the difference in kick as your go up to the larger calibers. Then imagine shooting at night, when your adrenaline is pumping, you don’t know how many intruders are coming, where they’re coming from, etc. Hell, you could wake up to one coming through the window, one already in your home, another one coming up the fire escape…your ability to shoot multiple shots, accurately, and with purpose is what really matters. So personally, I’d stick with 9mm or .40 hollow points.

And if you have children, DO NOT leave them in the dark about your firearms. Train them that there is a firearm in the house and show them what it looks like and teach them the consequences of touching it, or even looking at it. That the consequences are death and injury when improperly handled. I would also teach them that going into a hiding place (under the bed, in the closet - stay low and on the floor) is what they should do when you yell out your “alert signal” or if they hear the gun going off. Train, train, train.

64

A 20 gauge shotgun would be my choice for an apartment dweller in New York.

The permitting should be easier for a long gun and a 20 gauge is easily handled by a woman compared to a 12.

The shells (buck shot) can penetrate through a wall but not nearly as easy as a bullet. The knock down force would be the equivalent of 6-10 9mm shots from a handgun.

Beretta is my favorite shotgun, bar none.

If you insist on a handgun, NYC has that new magazine limit of 7 which removes most semi autos that are decent.

My handgun recommendation is a .357 magnum revolver with a longish barrel because the longer barrel will help subsequent shot placement.

Revolvers are much less likely to malfunction in the hands of an amateur, as well.

Taurus makes a nice 7 shot .357.

The king of all .357s is the Colt Python ( as seen on the Walking Dead). They are no longer made, but you can still find them new.

Also if the .357 is too much pistol, you can load it with .38 rounds. Because the .357 is a more robust pistol than the .38, you will experience much less felt recoil.

65

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
A gun used primarily for home defense and kept unloaded is useless. Should this unfortunate event, or something similar happen again, you will not have the time or wherewithal to find, load, and shoot an intruder intent on causing you harm. This is especially true if you do not plan on practicing much with the weapon. Without training, fine motor skills are greatly eroded when your adrenaline surges. Keep it loaded and shoot it often. Even dry fire practice is of great benefit.[/quote]

After seeing the “keep it loaded otherwise it is useless” response a few times now I’m curious.

Do you guys keep loaded guns around with kids in the house?

If so, what precautions do you take to ensure it doesn’t get into their hands?

Is it on you at all times?
[/quote]

By the same token, does anyone keep sharp kitchen knives where kids can get to them? How about bleach and detergent? Car keys? Stoves? Prescription drugs? Under lock and key or on your person at all times, right? And what about power tools? Certainly no child should be able to reach a circular saw or electric drill at any time.

Come on. Guns are like any potentially dangerous thing. You teach your children how to operate them safely if they are old enough, or to never touch if they are not.

Ideally, yes. Your defensive handgun should be like your cell phone or your wallet: on your person unless you are in bed or in the shower. And then it is within immediate reach. [/quote]

Not trying to derail it into rhetoric, so do you have kids and loaded guns in the same house?

If so what precautions do you take?

They are very simple and direct questions.

FTR, I learned to shoot a .22 at 4yrs. old, but the guns were kept unloaded and locked up separately from the ammo.

[/quote]

I do not. My guns are currently kept on a separate continent from where my children are.

I visited a good friend once in Idaho. There were guns all over the place. Loaded, cocked and locked, in nooks and crannies within easy reach. His three year old daughter had been trained from a very early age to never touch a firearm or a round of ammunition.

She could at age three recite the “four rules”. Surely you know what the “four rules” are. My own son knew the four rules when he was four years old. It’s all a matter of training and education.

You can’t make guns kid-proof. What you can do is make kids gun-proof.

66

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
A gun used primarily for home defense and kept unloaded is useless. Should this unfortunate event, or something similar happen again, you will not have the time or wherewithal to find, load, and shoot an intruder intent on causing you harm. This is especially true if you do not plan on practicing much with the weapon. Without training, fine motor skills are greatly eroded when your adrenaline surges. Keep it loaded and shoot it often. Even dry fire practice is of great benefit.[/quote]

After seeing the “keep it loaded otherwise it is useless” response a few times now I’m curious.

Do you guys keep loaded guns around with kids in the house?

If so, what precautions do you take to ensure it doesn’t get into their hands?

Is it on you at all times?
[/quote]

By the same token, does anyone keep sharp kitchen knives where kids can get to them? How about bleach and detergent? Car keys? Stoves? Prescription drugs? Under lock and key or on your person at all times, right? And what about power tools? Certainly no child should be able to reach a circular saw or electric drill at any time.

Come on. Guns are like any potentially dangerous thing. You teach your children how to operate them safely if they are old enough, or to never touch if they are not.

Ideally, yes. Your defensive handgun should be like your cell phone or your wallet: on your person unless you are in bed or in the shower. And then it is within immediate reach. [/quote]

Not trying to derail it into rhetoric, so do you have kids and loaded guns in the same house?

If so what precautions do you take?

They are very simple and direct questions.

FTR, I learned to shoot a .22 at 4yrs. old, but the guns were kept unloaded and locked up separately from the ammo.

[/quote]

I do not. My guns are currently kept on a separate continent from where my children are.

I visited a good friend once in Idaho. There were guns all over the place. Loaded, cocked and locked, in nooks and crannies within easy reach. His three year old daughter had been trained from a very early age to never touch a firearm or a round of ammunition.

She could at age three recite the “four rules”. Surely you know what the “four rules” are. My own son knew the four rules when he was four years old. It’s all a matter of training and education.

You can’t make guns kid-proof. What you can do is make kids gun-proof. [/quote]

Yeah, I learned the four rules and took the PA hunter safety courses and all of that good stuff as a kid.

But as an adult I’m weighing the risk/reward of having firearms locked and loaded in the house and in my mind, it just doesn’t pan out. I’d rather build in some redundant safeties.

67

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
A gun used primarily for home defense and kept unloaded is useless. Should this unfortunate event, or something similar happen again, you will not have the time or wherewithal to find, load, and shoot an intruder intent on causing you harm. This is especially true if you do not plan on practicing much with the weapon. Without training, fine motor skills are greatly eroded when your adrenaline surges. Keep it loaded and shoot it often. Even dry fire practice is of great benefit.[/quote]

After seeing the “keep it loaded otherwise it is useless” response a few times now I’m curious.

Do you guys keep loaded guns around with kids in the house?

If so, what precautions do you take to ensure it doesn’t get into their hands?

Is it on you at all times?
[/quote]

By the same token, does anyone keep sharp kitchen knives where kids can get to them? How about bleach and detergent? Car keys? Stoves? Prescription drugs? Under lock and key or on your person at all times, right? And what about power tools? Certainly no child should be able to reach a circular saw or electric drill at any time.

Come on. Guns are like any potentially dangerous thing. You teach your children how to operate them safely if they are old enough, or to never touch if they are not.

Ideally, yes. Your defensive handgun should be like your cell phone or your wallet: on your person unless you are in bed or in the shower. And then it is within immediate reach. [/quote]

Not trying to derail it into rhetoric, so do you have kids and loaded guns in the same house?

If so what precautions do you take?

They are very simple and direct questions.

FTR, I learned to shoot a .22 at 4yrs. old, but the guns were kept unloaded and locked up separately from the ammo.

[/quote]

I do not. My guns are currently kept on a separate continent from where my children are.

I visited a good friend once in Idaho. There were guns all over the place. Loaded, cocked and locked, in nooks and crannies within easy reach. His three year old daughter had been trained from a very early age to never touch a firearm or a round of ammunition.

She could at age three recite the “four rules”. Surely you know what the “four rules” are. My own son knew the four rules when he was four years old. It’s all a matter of training and education.

You can’t make guns kid-proof. What you can do is make kids gun-proof. [/quote]

Yeah, I learned the four rules and took the PA hunter safety courses and all of that good stuff as a kid.

But as an adult I’m weighing the risk/reward of having firearms locked and loaded in the house and in my mind, it just doesn’t pan out. I’d rather build in some redundant safeties.
[/quote]

My earlier post got buried after it was approved. Hopefully this one is approved faster.

I have a 4 year old. I keep my pistol in a pistol safe that opens quickly with a code. Not much danger of her guessing it and I can keep a round chambered. Takes 1/2 second to open and it has a light, I also use it to hold things like cash that I don’t want laying around.

My long guns I keep loaded but I don’t have a round chambered. Mostly it’s a decision on my part that she isn’t likely to shoot herself with a 12ga too long for her to operate.

She’s only picked up a handgun that was on the table once. I was cleaning it and it wasn’t unloaded. She got in trouble and we talked about gun safety. She hasn’t picked one up without permission after that. I think the problematic ages might be later when kids are more likely to rebel.

68

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
A gun used primarily for home defense and kept unloaded is useless. Should this unfortunate event, or something similar happen again, you will not have the time or wherewithal to find, load, and shoot an intruder intent on causing you harm. This is especially true if you do not plan on practicing much with the weapon. Without training, fine motor skills are greatly eroded when your adrenaline surges. Keep it loaded and shoot it often. Even dry fire practice is of great benefit.[/quote]

After seeing the “keep it loaded otherwise it is useless” response a few times now I’m curious.

Do you guys keep loaded guns around with kids in the house?

If so, what precautions do you take to ensure it doesn’t get into their hands?

Is it on you at all times?
[/quote]

We don’t have kids so I have not had to address this problem. Having grown up with guns, I was taught a healthy respect for the damage they can incur. Being exposed to hunting even before reaching the allowable hunting age demonstrated to me the dangers of playing around with them. I was never allowed, or even had the urge, to handle my family’s guns unless we were hunting or target shooting. I believe being exposed to them at a young age curbed their fascination for me.

77

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
A gun used primarily for home defense and kept unloaded is useless. Should this unfortunate event, or something similar happen again, you will not have the time or wherewithal to find, load, and shoot an intruder intent on causing you harm. This is especially true if you do not plan on practicing much with the weapon. Without training, fine motor skills are greatly eroded when your adrenaline surges. Keep it loaded and shoot it often. Even dry fire practice is of great benefit.[/quote]

After seeing the “keep it loaded otherwise it is useless” response a few times now I’m curious.

Do you guys keep loaded guns around with kids in the house?

If so, what precautions do you take to ensure it doesn’t get into their hands?

Is it on you at all times?
[/quote]

We don’t have kids so I have not had to address this problem. Having grown up with guns, I was taught a healthy respect for the damage they can incur. Being exposed to hunting even before reaching the allowable hunting age demonstrated to me the dangers of playing around with them. I was never allowed, or even had the urge, to handle my family’s guns unless we were hunting or target shooting. I believe being exposed to them at a young age curbed their fascination for me.
[/quote]

Similar story here. We grew up in a fairly rural area where a timely police response was simply not a reality. My dad and grandfather were gun people (marksmen/hunters/gunsmiths. Long guns and ammunition were readily accessible all over the house. I would never have dreamed of playing with one.

My dad kept an unloaded Walther .32 automatic pistol in his nightstand, loaded 2 mags next to it. I expect that this last part was his concession to having a child in the house and I expect that prior to my arrival it was locked and loaded at all times. Nonetheless, I suspect the old man could have made that machine ready PDQ if it became necessary.

Early exposure to firearms definitely curbed my fascination and taught me an abiding respect for their destructive power. Basic firearm safety was right up there with look both ways before you cross the street, don’t eat it if you don’t know what it is and don’t talk to strangers. It was just part of life.

That being said, as the father of a bright, conscientious 4 year old I would feel very uneasy keeping a loaded firearm anywhere unsecured and easily accessible. Even well trained kids occasionally experience shocking lapses in reason. I realize that this makes an effective, armed response to an intruder pretty unlikely. Of course, I live in Canada, so it’s a moot point anyway, legally speaking.

No easy answers.

79

Sorry for the slight derail, but I, like lemony2j, am British and I have no experience with firearms outside a hunting situation and I don’t really have an opinion either way on American gun laws etc as I’m simply not informed on the topic.

Out of interest how many of you guys have been in a scenario where your firearm contributed to keeping you or your family safe (excluding experiences as an LEO/military/gangbanger)? Obviously I’m not expecting you to go into the details, but I’d just be interested to hear how many people have been in situations like the one Stu described, and in which the outcome was altered by having a firearm.

Thanks!

80

[quote]xboxwarrior wrote:
Noise and light are your best defense against intruders.[/quote]

Wrong. Noise and light are good deterrants against intruders.

They also deter cockroaches and rats, but if you see a rat or a roach, you don’t rely on light and noise to take care of it, do you? No. You stomp on it or poison it. Same principle applies.

Someone who wants you dead… or is prepared to kill you in order to take your stuff and rape your wife and daughter, is by definition a determined intruder. Where I live there is a home invasion somewhere every single day. Rapes, kidnapping and murders go along with home invasion. This is a fact. No invader is going to enter an occupied home unarmed, and acquiescing to an intruder’s wishes is, contrary to all the “just do what he wants and he won’t hurt you” mythology, the best way to get beaten up, rape or killed. A paranoid is one who has an irrational fear that he is always in danger. I advocate a rational response to a very real threat. This includes armed defense.

Sure, and the best way to avoid automobile accidents is to drive safely. But you still wear a seat belt, because sometimes shit happens.

A handgun and the skill to use it is like a seat belt or a life insurance policy. You hope you never have to use it, but you’re fucked if you need it and don’t have it.