[quote]theRealJZ wrote:
Sometimes my lower back hurts when i go heavier with these, i was thinkin about doin them with my ass to the wall, just something to kind of hold it against as im rowing, figure it wud take some pressure off and maybe also help form because it wud give feedback for keeping hips level and still throughout the movement. anyone try this?[/quote]
I do exactly this from time to time. I can still go fairly heavy but it does reduce excessive lower back involvement.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
I don’t understand your question. Do you disagree that you are retracted at the end (chin above the bar) of both a pull-up (pronated) and a chin-up (supinated)?
No no, I’m disputing the fact that someone can say a chin/pull up is similar to a bent over row.
[/quote]
I guess it depends on your definition of what constitutes a similar exercise. A chin-up is closer to a bent over row (45 degree) because they are the same movement. Both have the same agonists and the same synergists. Both allow a pretty good amount of weight to be used.
But cheating by using your legs is different on each exercise, and the ROM is quite different, and in a chin-up you start in a flexed position which you don’t in a row. Also the Chin-up has no LB involvement.
In terms of which one has a better carryover to the other that is a tough one but I would probably go with chin-ups due to the extra ROM.
I think most people do chin-ups from a dead hang…
Chins and rows aren’t the same. The ROM is different. The former is closed chain while the latter is open.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Just did that today for the first time in a long time. One of the nice things about being back in the gym and not training at home.
I got some weird looks from some of the people in the gym. Wait until I ask them to put some plates on my chest.
[/quote]
These are one of my favourite exercises!
Done on rings/blast straps they can add an extra challenge.
Try experimenting with your arms tucked by your sides (lats emphasis) or arms flared out (more traps/rhomboids).
Doing them with one arm means you have an arm free to hold the plates to your chest.
This can be a little tricky at first so a good way I’ve found to work up to them is to start with knees bent to 90 degrees to allow for a bit of leg drive and reduced leverage of resistance.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
nptitim wrote:
Hanley wrote:
You should still be retracted when you do pull-ups and chins. It is easier with pull-ups, but even with chins at the end you would be retracted.
You cannot honestly say that they’re simialr movements??
I don’t understand your question. Do you disagree that you are retracted at the end (chin above the bar) of both a pull-up (pronated) and a chin-up (supinated)?
No no, I’m disputing the fact that someone can say a chin/pull up is similar to a bent over row.
[/quote]
I kind of agree with Hanley on this. yeah- pull-ups are certainly a lot easier on a sore back. However, for me, pull-ups always seemed like more of a coordination trick than a make-you-strong-as-hell exercise. At least, I never felt like they improved my main lifts nor put on much in the way of upper back mass like heavy bb rows and t-bar rows.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
I kind of agree with Hanley on this. yeah- pull-ups are certainly a lot easier on a sore back. However, for me, pull-ups always seemed like more of a coordination trick than a make-you-strong-as-hell exercise. At least, I never felt like they improved my main lifts nor put on much in the way of upper back mass like heavy bb rows and t-bar rows. [/quote]
Did you try doing weighted pull-ups to make them harder? Or are you heavy and so it was hard to get good at them? I agree with you that for mass and size BB rows are tough to beat. However I would say that someone is NOT strong as hell if they couldn’t bang out a far amount of pull-ups unless they were 350 lbs +
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
I think that alot of the time he talks out of his arse. I know I’m gonna get seriously flamed for that but he’s in business so he needs USPs. And ideas like that seem to be his.
I have to disagree! I see what Poliquin’s saying about the bb row. I’ve seen very few people do it with strict form.
That’s a stupid fucking statement.
Quit worrying about other people’s form and worry about your own. Form sucks? Take the weight down and tighten up.
The only reason people want to accept the dumbbell row argument is because they are easier. Period.
Fuck, most gyms don’t even have heavy enough bells for a reasonably strong lifter to get a meaningful workout, anyway.
Quit being a bunch of pussies and load the bar.
Just don’t be one of those douche bags doing a modified shrug calling it a row. If you are going to row, then for the love of God, row.
R u always so friendly??
I wasnt saying i dont do bb rows very often because other people dont do them right, i was just saying very few people do them right.
As i explained in an earlier post, when im squatting and romanian deadlifting in my program i dont think my low back needs any more strain. Therefore my back workouts usually consist of some of the following…weighted chins/pull up’s, hammer strength rows or one arm db rows.
And my backs probably my best bodypart.
No, you caught me on one of my better days.
What I read in your post is akin to you saying to me “I am good enough so I don’t need to do anything different, and I certainly wouldn’t want to work any harder.”
You state that you think your back gets enough “strain” doing squats and RDL’s.
I find this pretty fucking amusing. I would state it sounds to me like you need to raise your work capacity.
Allow me to remind you this is the strength sports forum.
Most people posting here will never feel they are good enough and will leave no rock unturned in their quest for strength. We will always be looking for an edge.
So, congratulations on being satisfied but don’t expect to find many on this forum echoing that same sentiment.[/quote]
Right on.
It would be better if threads from this subforum never got put on the main page. It draws too many jokers in.
If you’re not a strength athlete yourself, know that in general, powerlifters, weightlifters and strongmen have their shit together, train hard, and aren’t particularly fond of mental masturbation. Try not to do it here.
Also, try not to talk about which of your bodyparts you find the most attractive, or how you are afraid to strain your back.
Thanks, very much.
p.s. Barbell rows are good…Pendlay/JS rows are great if you do them right.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Also, try not to talk about … how you are afraid to strain your back.
[/quote]
Hahaha!
[quote]Rusty Barbell wrote:
Ramo wrote:
Also, try not to talk about … how you are afraid to strain your back.
Hahaha!
[/quote]
Instead pop over to building a better body forum and have a read of the thread titled Back injury, I am sure you will get a laugh out of that.
[quote]nptitim wrote:
Did you try doing weighted pull-ups to make them harder? Or are you heavy and so it was hard to get good at them? I agree with you that for mass and size BB rows are tough to beat. However I would say that someone is NOT strong as hell if they couldn’t bang out a far amount of pull-ups unless they were 350 lbs +[/quote]
I have done them weighted. Of course this made them harder, but I still didn’t feel like doing them made me much better at anything other than pull-ups. I made a similar observation with dips. Could it be that the plane of motion in these two movements does not relate to my core lifts well? Who knows.
I think they are a great general exercise (not much of a learning curve, low to non-existent injury exposure) and god knows that you can do them anywhere. That said, they did not seem to help me that much. Then again- everyone’s different.