Batman Vs. Ironman

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[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
People always ridicule him for the whole no-killing thing. It’s not that Batman is against killing, he just needs something to do. [/quote]

I don’t want to go all out geek but early Batman used to kill baddies all the time (or at least let them die). He even killed a bunch of them with a shotgun once I think. I don’t know why they changed that about him (political correctness perhaps?) but super heroes who don’t have a problem killing a villain always have an edge that I like.
[/quote]
That’s why I like Moon Knight. Although he arguably goes a bit beyond “edge” given his murder spree where he not only played judge, jury, and executioner to a bunch of villains, but also cut their faces off and howled at the moon like a madman (which he is).

222

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
So basically are we all in agreement then that Batman is pretty much useless unless he has some prep time? I mean so far all the Batman win scenario involve him coming up with some contraption to beat Ironman or catching him off guard. If Doctor Doom somehow teleported them into an arena for a death match while they were just out patrolling their cities, I don’t think anyone can come up with any logical argument for Batman winning.[/quote]

If Doctor Doom teleported them into an arena for a death match, the most likely scenario is that Batman uses his superior intellect and strategian’s mind to devise a scenario in which Ironman and Batman working together take out Doom and return to their respective cities.[/quote]

I like that, never make Batman into a conflict he cant win (which is pretty much all of them when its unexpected heads up).

I like Batman as a character but he is pretty much useless in these if these two got in a fight because every scenario that Batman wins involves him getting out of the fight initially. Without escape, head to head, Batman is pretty low on the totem pole.[/quote]

Besides, if it’s unexpected heads up, who’s to say Batman doesn’t get the drop on Ironman somehow? Why is it that Ironman is always the one dropping in unexpectedly on Batman? How often does someone really get the drop on Batman? Not often at all, and Stark isn’t one likely to do so.

223

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
So basically are we all in agreement then that Batman is pretty much useless unless he has some prep time? I mean so far all the Batman win scenario involve him coming up with some contraption to beat Ironman or catching him off guard. If Doctor Doom somehow teleported them into an arena for a death match while they were just out patrolling their cities, I don’t think anyone can come up with any logical argument for Batman winning.[/quote]

And I wouldn’t use the phrase “coming up with some contraption”. This is Batman we’re talking about. He already HAS the contraption to take out Ironman. It’s another Ironman suit tailored to Batman’s specific needs. There is simply no scenario in which Batman would be forced to take on Ironman in some death match. He would take on the person responsible for putting him there first before he took on another good guy like Ironman.

And Ironman would do the same thing, once he finished detoxing. And if they WERE forced to fight it out, Batman would simply use his supreme intellect to convince Ironman not to fight but work together to find a way out until he knew Ironman was going through severe withdrawal symptoms and extremely vulnerable. Then it would be all over for Ironman. A dehydrated, hallucinatory Tony Stark vs Bruce Wayne, a guy who was trained by the League of Shadows, would be no match whatsoever. Wayne destroys Stark in seconds.

So the only realistic scenario is one in which they have been existing in one’s universe or the other and one of them does something to piss the other off to the point where they find themselves fighting each other. In that situation, there is literally no conceivable scenario in which Ironman defeats Batman. Batman would be prepared for such an eventuality before it ever became a reality. So once it DOES become reality, it’s simply a matter of carrying out the plan. And if there is a guy who knows how to carry out a plan against someone like Ironman, it’s Batman.[/quote]

Batman and Ironman are hanging around the superhero bar and start getting bitchy with one another before they tie up in a bar fight. Ironman gives Batman a blast that sends him up against the wall, Batman keeps trying to run but lets face it, he’s only human and cant outrun a jet powered suit so Ironman catches him takes him up and slams him to the ground. Ironman puts his foot on Batman’s throat and makes him say who’s bitch he is. Batman may retaliate and might win later, however Batman never whens that first meeting if they weren’t planning on fighting.

224

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
So basically are we all in agreement then that Batman is pretty much useless unless he has some prep time? I mean so far all the Batman win scenario involve him coming up with some contraption to beat Ironman or catching him off guard. If Doctor Doom somehow teleported them into an arena for a death match while they were just out patrolling their cities, I don’t think anyone can come up with any logical argument for Batman winning.[/quote]

If Doctor Doom teleported them into an arena for a death match, the most likely scenario is that Batman uses his superior intellect and strategian’s mind to devise a scenario in which Ironman and Batman working together take out Doom and return to their respective cities.[/quote]

I like that, never make Batman into a conflict he cant win (which is pretty much all of them when its unexpected heads up).

I like Batman as a character but he is pretty much useless in these if these two got in a fight because every scenario that Batman wins involves him getting out of the fight initially. Without escape, head to head, Batman is pretty low on the totem pole.[/quote]

Well, since his ability to escape and regroup is one of his “powers”, denigrating him based on that is sort of like saying that without the Ironman suit Stark is pretty low on the totem pole.

Every scenario in which Ironman wins is in some mythical death match in which someone else teleports the two into some intergalactic octagon and somehow forces the two to fight it out. Put them in the normal environment in which they operate and Batman wins every time. Stark can be taken out of the suit. Batman can’t be taken out of Wayne. If there is a way to get Ironman out of that suit Batman can do it.[/quote]

So what your saying is, that if Batman is encountered with an urgent situation that he cant runaway and think about, like Wolverine going crazy and he see’s him entering a house to kill a bunch of orphans, he has to sacrifice himself or let it happen??

225

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
So basically are we all in agreement then that Batman is pretty much useless unless he has some prep time? I mean so far all the Batman win scenario involve him coming up with some contraption to beat Ironman or catching him off guard. If Doctor Doom somehow teleported them into an arena for a death match while they were just out patrolling their cities, I don’t think anyone can come up with any logical argument for Batman winning.[/quote]

And I wouldn’t use the phrase “coming up with some contraption”. This is Batman we’re talking about. He already HAS the contraption to take out Ironman. It’s another Ironman suit tailored to Batman’s specific needs. There is simply no scenario in which Batman would be forced to take on Ironman in some death match. He would take on the person responsible for putting him there first before he took on another good guy like Ironman.

And Ironman would do the same thing, once he finished detoxing. And if they WERE forced to fight it out, Batman would simply use his supreme intellect to convince Ironman not to fight but work together to find a way out until he knew Ironman was going through severe withdrawal symptoms and extremely vulnerable. Then it would be all over for Ironman. A dehydrated, hallucinatory Tony Stark vs Bruce Wayne, a guy who was trained by the League of Shadows, would be no match whatsoever. Wayne destroys Stark in seconds.

So the only realistic scenario is one in which they have been existing in one’s universe or the other and one of them does something to piss the other off to the point where they find themselves fighting each other. In that situation, there is literally no conceivable scenario in which Ironman defeats Batman. Batman would be prepared for such an eventuality before it ever became a reality. So once it DOES become reality, it’s simply a matter of carrying out the plan. And if there is a guy who knows how to carry out a plan against someone like Ironman, it’s Batman.[/quote]

Batman and Ironman are hanging around the superhero bar and start getting bitchy with one another before they tie up in a bar fight. Ironman gives Batman a blast that sends him up against the wall, Batman keeps trying to run but lets face it, he’s only human and cant outrun a jet powered suit so Ironman catches him takes him up and slams him to the ground. Ironman puts his foot on Batman’s throat and makes him say who’s bitch he is. Batman may retaliate and might win later, however Batman never whens that first meeting if they weren’t planning on fighting.[/quote]

Robin comes along and drops Batman in the Lazarus Pit, Batman is resurrected, goes into hiding in the Batcave and comes out six months later with a suit more badass than anything Stark has and destroys him while he’s in the middle of a coke binge in Hong Kong.

But, since Batman doesn’t drink your scenario is moot. But let’s say Batman is there as Wolverine’s designated driver for the night. Here’s what happens.

Stark gets progressively drunker and drunker while Batman is sitting there watching him fall apart over the latest rumors about Pepper Potts and Bruce Wayne, who Stark has no clue is actually Batman. So Stark is ranting and raving about what he’s going to do this guy Wayne and Batman is sitting there listening to all of this. When Ironman isn’t looking, Batman slips a little poison he held onto from his League of Shadows days and puts it into Stark’s next Singapore Sling.

Batman defuses the escalating tension as Stark gets more and more shitfaced, Stark passes out after the poison shuts down his liver and short-circuits his medulla, everyone pays no attention and assumes it’s just Stark being Stark again, and Batman carries him back to the Batcave, where he and Lucius Fox go to work on the suit. Stark wakes up from his coma six months later to find that Batman is now IronBat and Wayne Enterprises has swallowed Stark Industries in a hostile takeover made easier by the fact that Stark hasn’t been seen in ages and is rumored to have overdosed on heroin in the depths of the Mekong Delta.

226

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
So basically are we all in agreement then that Batman is pretty much useless unless he has some prep time? I mean so far all the Batman win scenario involve him coming up with some contraption to beat Ironman or catching him off guard. If Doctor Doom somehow teleported them into an arena for a death match while they were just out patrolling their cities, I don’t think anyone can come up with any logical argument for Batman winning.[/quote]

If Doctor Doom teleported them into an arena for a death match, the most likely scenario is that Batman uses his superior intellect and strategian’s mind to devise a scenario in which Ironman and Batman working together take out Doom and return to their respective cities.[/quote]

I like that, never make Batman into a conflict he cant win (which is pretty much all of them when its unexpected heads up).

I like Batman as a character but he is pretty much useless in these if these two got in a fight because every scenario that Batman wins involves him getting out of the fight initially. Without escape, head to head, Batman is pretty low on the totem pole.[/quote]

Well, since his ability to escape and regroup is one of his “powers”, denigrating him based on that is sort of like saying that without the Ironman suit Stark is pretty low on the totem pole.

Every scenario in which Ironman wins is in some mythical death match in which someone else teleports the two into some intergalactic octagon and somehow forces the two to fight it out. Put them in the normal environment in which they operate and Batman wins every time. Stark can be taken out of the suit. Batman can’t be taken out of Wayne. If there is a way to get Ironman out of that suit Batman can do it.[/quote]

So what your saying is, that if Batman is encountered with an urgent situation that he cant runaway and think about, like Wolverine going crazy and he see’s him entering a house to kill a bunch of orphans, he has to sacrifice himself or let it happen??[/quote]

We’re not talking about Wolverine. And Batman has watched the Joker kills thousands of people over the years. He’s not going to risk imminent death for a few orphans.

227

I mean, it’s not like Batman is dumb enough to hang out in a bar with an egotistical alcoholic wearing a suit that can kill him without some sort of fool-proof contingency plan in place already. If he find himself in a bar next to a drunken, angered Ironman, it’s because Batman wants it that way.

228

There’s no way that Iron Man beats Batman. NO WAY. Batman is ready for anything and everything at all times. Stark getting out of line? Let me show you my super suit de-scrambler. Intergalactic warlords coming from space to take over the world? Just so happens I built am anti-intergalactic warlord machine last year. Wolverine challenges me to a fist fight? Watch me beat the fuck out of him using my superior intellect, strategy and hand-to-hand combat skills as he quickly heals so I can just keep beating the fuck out of him 'cause I don’t get tired, I’m Batman. This case is CALOSED.

229

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
There’s no way that Iron Man beats Batman. NO WAY. Batman is ready for anything and everything at all times. Stark getting out of line? Let me show you my super suit de-scrambler. Intergalactic warlords coming from space to take over the world? Just so happens I built am anti-intergalactic warlord machine last year. Wolverine challenges me to a fist fight? Watch me beat the fuck out of him using my superior intellect, strategy and hand-to-hand combat skills as he quickly heals so I can just keep beating the fuck out of him 'cause I don’t get tired, I’m Batman. This case is CALOSED.[/quote]

Batman probably has an entire collection of Ironman suits he stole from Stark Industries made completely of adamantium just in case he ever finds himself at odds with Wolverine.

230

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
There’s no way that Iron Man beats Batman. NO WAY. Batman is ready for anything and everything at all times. Stark getting out of line? Let me show you my super suit de-scrambler. Intergalactic warlords coming from space to take over the world? Just so happens I built am anti-intergalactic warlord machine last year. Wolverine challenges me to a fist fight? Watch me beat the fuck out of him using my superior intellect, strategy and hand-to-hand combat skills as he quickly heals so I can just keep beating the fuck out of him 'cause I don’t get tired, I’m Batman. This case is CALOSED.[/quote]

BOOM!!

231

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
There’s no way that Iron Man beats Batman. NO WAY. Batman is ready for anything and everything at all times. Stark getting out of line? Let me show you my super suit de-scrambler. Intergalactic warlords coming from space to take over the world? Just so happens I built am anti-intergalactic warlord machine last year. Wolverine challenges me to a fist fight? Watch me beat the fuck out of him using my superior intellect, strategy and hand-to-hand combat skills as he quickly heals so I can just keep beating the fuck out of him 'cause I don’t get tired, I’m Batman. This case is CALOSED.[/quote]

I don’t get tired, Im Batman.

I lost it on that line.

232

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
So basically are we all in agreement then that Batman is pretty much useless unless he has some prep time? I mean so far all the Batman win scenario involve him coming up with some contraption to beat Ironman or catching him off guard. If Doctor Doom somehow teleported them into an arena for a death match while they were just out patrolling their cities, I don’t think anyone can come up with any logical argument for Batman winning.[/quote]

If Doctor Doom teleported them into an arena for a death match, the most likely scenario is that Batman uses his superior intellect and strategian’s mind to devise a scenario in which Ironman and Batman working together take out Doom and return to their respective cities.[/quote]

I like that, never make Batman into a conflict he cant win (which is pretty much all of them when its unexpected heads up).

I like Batman as a character but he is pretty much useless in these if these two got in a fight because every scenario that Batman wins involves him getting out of the fight initially. Without escape, head to head, Batman is pretty low on the totem pole.[/quote]

Well, since his ability to escape and regroup is one of his “powers”, denigrating him based on that is sort of like saying that without the Ironman suit Stark is pretty low on the totem pole.

Every scenario in which Ironman wins is in some mythical death match in which someone else teleports the two into some intergalactic octagon and somehow forces the two to fight it out. Put them in the normal environment in which they operate and Batman wins every time. Stark can be taken out of the suit. Batman can’t be taken out of Wayne. If there is a way to get Ironman out of that suit Batman can do it.[/quote]

So what your saying is, that if Batman is encountered with an urgent situation that he cant runaway and think about, like Wolverine going crazy and he see’s him entering a house to kill a bunch of orphans, he has to sacrifice himself or let it happen??[/quote]

We’re not talking about Wolverine. And Batman has watched the Joker kills thousands of people over the years. He’s not going to risk imminent death for a few orphans.[/quote]

You are correct. Batman confronting Wolverine without plenty of prep time would be instant death. Same as with Ironman. You can try to spin it any way you want but Batman is one of the least extraordinary superheros there is.

And to be clear, Batman is one of my favorites because he has that human factor. The invincibility of some of these characters is not nearly as interesting as one that might die, like Captain America falling to a sniper bullet. It makes for a much deeper character, than a Superman or a Silver Surfer.

233

The Batman fan boy force was strong in this thread. I will never understand it but hey it makes for a lot of fun with grown men arguing about imaginary men trying to kill one another.

234

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
The Batman fan boy force was strong in this thread. I will never understand it but hey it makes for a lot of fun with grown men arguing about imaginary men trying to kill one another.[/quote]

I think it’s because he’s one of the few characters we can realistically relate too. Minus the money, gadgets, women…

235

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
The Batman fan boy force was strong in this thread. I will never understand it but hey it makes for a lot of fun with grown men arguing about imaginary men trying to kill one another.[/quote]

I think it’s because he’s one of the few characters we can realistically relate too. Minus the money, gadgets, women…[/quote]

I whole heartedly agree with that. Batman is one of my favorite characters for this very reason.

236

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
People always ridicule him for the whole no-killing thing. It’s not that Batman is against killing, he just needs something to do. [/quote]

I don’t want to go all out geek but early Batman used to kill baddies all the time (or at least let them die). He even killed a bunch of them with a shotgun once I think. I don’t know why they changed that about him (political correctness perhaps?) but super heroes who don’t have a problem killing a villain always have an edge that I like.
[/quote]
That’s why I like Moon Knight. Although he arguably goes a bit beyond “edge” given his murder spree where he not only played judge, jury, and executioner to a bunch of villains, but also cut their faces off and howled at the moon like a madman (which he is).[/quote]

I haven’t read a Moon Knight comic book since the late 80s early 90s(and those Brazilian editions were probably a few years behind) because honestly I didn’t find him that interesting but what you just wrote got me curious, I may check some of that out, any recomendations?

237

I think the real question is which Batman?

Bale and Keaton get my nod, not sure about Kilmer. Clooney and his rubber nipples are going down. Toss up on Adam West.

238

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]knee-gro wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
People always ridicule him for the whole no-killing thing. It’s not that Batman is against killing, he just needs something to do. [/quote]

I don’t want to go all out geek but early Batman used to kill baddies all the time (or at least let them die). He even killed a bunch of them with a shotgun once I think. I don’t know why they changed that about him (political correctness perhaps?) but super heroes who don’t have a problem killing a villain always have an edge that I like.
[/quote]
That’s why I like Moon Knight. Although he arguably goes a bit beyond “edge” given his murder spree where he not only played judge, jury, and executioner to a bunch of villains, but also cut their faces off and howled at the moon like a madman (which he is).[/quote]

I haven’t read a Moon Knight comic book since the late 80s early 90s(and those Brazilian editions were probably a few years behind) because honestly I didn’t find him that interesting but what you just wrote got me curious, I may check some of that out, any recomendations?[/quote]
Moon Knight vol. 1: The Bottom

that goes for a little while

then Vengeance of the Moon Knight is awesome

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922×975 185 KB

Yep…

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Poor Moon Knight being “forced” to cut people’s faces off :frowning: