Bastille Day

Off Topic
41

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:
So please FightinIrish26, give me your point of view on people who move to another country, don’t learn the language, don’t work, don’t study and just leech from the government support.

Libert�?�©?
[/quote]

I think there’s just as many native born people who don’t work, don’t study, and just leech from government support.

Most folks that I see that come here work their asses off. If anything, in my eyes the new immigrants work way, way harder than white people, who somehow feel entitled to things.

[/quote]

And I have zero problems with immigrants who work hard. And I don’t disagree with the fact that they have to work harder (and I’m one myself), but what about those who can’t be bothered to do anything, not even learn the language?

Do you think it’s normal to have a ghetto in Paris with third generation immigrants who doesn’t even bother with the language? Do you think that no action should be taken?

42

See, I can understand part of your point, and Europe’s. You don’t want the French culture, or the British culture, or whatever, to die off. I understand that you wouldn’t want a mosque on every corner and all that, and that a lot of people fear that your identity is leaving.

But see, in America, we been dealing with that shit since we started. First it was the Irish, then the southern Europeans, then the Eastern Europeans, now the Hispanics… neighborhoods that used to be all Italian, all Irish, are gone now.

Little Italy in New York is mostly Chinatown now. Places that used to be white neighborhoods are filled with Asians, or with blacks, or Muslims. Whatever.

It’s not new, and it’s not worrisome to us here because it’s always happened, this ebb and flow. I think a alot of your typical European countries have never had this issue because you’ve been homogeneous for so long that anything new or different is scary as fuck.

And as for Algerians in France… well, don’t colonize their fuckin country if you don’t want them coming to yours. Whose fault was that?

43

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:
So please FightinIrish26, give me your point of view on people who move to another country, don’t learn the language, don’t work, don’t study and just leech from the government support.

Libert�??�?�©?
[/quote]

I think there’s just as many native born people who don’t work, don’t study, and just leech from government support.

Most folks that I see that come here work their asses off. If anything, in my eyes the new immigrants work way, way harder than white people, who somehow feel entitled to things.

[/quote]

And I have zero problems with immigrants who work hard. And I don’t disagree with the fact that they have to work harder (and I’m one myself), but what about those who can’t be bothered to do anything, not even learn the language?

Do you think it’s normal to have a ghetto in Paris with third generation immigrants who doesn’t even bother with the language? Do you think that no action should be taken?
[/quote]

Uh… yea, I do. That kind of stuff happens all the time here. Although most people here use English, if they’re around their ilk they don’t.

Go to Chinatown in NYC. Nobody speaks English. Big fuckin deal. Don’t go there then.

44

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Go to Chinatown in NYC. Nobody speaks English. Big fuckin deal. Don’t go there then.[/quote]

What if you’re not in Chinatown? What if you’re just at work and someone walks in and wants service but gets pissed off at you because you don’t understand their language or their broken English? Maybe it’s just me but every other country I’ve been in where I don’t speak the language or have a limited understanding of it, I’ve been pretty humble about it. I don’t make it their fault that I can’t make myself understood in their country. I face this every day at work.

45

[quote]postholedigger wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Go to Chinatown in NYC. Nobody speaks English. Big fuckin deal. Don’t go there then.[/quote]

What if you’re not in Chinatown? What if you’re just at work and someone walks in and wants service but gets pissed off at you because you don’t understand their language or their broken English? Maybe it’s just me but every other country I’ve been in where I don’t speak the language or have a limited understanding of it, I’ve been pretty humble about it. I don’t make it their fault that I can’t make myself understood in their country. I face this every day at work.[/quote]

I don’t face it here at all. Most people that can’t speak English around here are probably Hispanics, but I’ve never come across any that actually got angry that I didn’t speak Spanish.

And I try to work with people who speak broken English. What the fuck, they’re trying.

Only one time when I was working retail did I have some guy get angry cause I didn’t speak his language. I kinda shrugged and walked away. Not my problem.

Although I always, ALWAYS had people coming up to me and speaking Italian to me because they assumed I would understand because of how I look. When I kind of smiled and shrugged, they were always apologetic.

Maybe it’s the way you guys go about this that gets people angry.

46

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:
So please FightinIrish26, give me your point of view on people who move to another country, don’t learn the language, don’t work, don’t study and just leech from the government support.

Libert�??�??�?�©?
[/quote]

I think there’s just as many native born people who don’t work, don’t study, and just leech from government support.

Most folks that I see that come here work their asses off. If anything, in my eyes the new immigrants work way, way harder than white people, who somehow feel entitled to things.

[/quote]

And I have zero problems with immigrants who work hard. And I don’t disagree with the fact that they have to work harder (and I’m one myself), but what about those who can’t be bothered to do anything, not even learn the language?

Do you think it’s normal to have a ghetto in Paris with third generation immigrants who doesn’t even bother with the language? Do you think that no action should be taken?
[/quote]

Uh… yea, I do. That kind of stuff happens all the time here. Although most people here use English, if they’re around their ilk they don’t.

Go to Chinatown in NYC. Nobody speaks English. Big fuckin deal. Don’t go there then.[/quote]

And related to your post above. It’s different in USA since it’s a country born out of a colony and it’s based, pretty much, on multiculturualism.

For you maybe it may not be a big deal that you can’t find anyone to speak in English at China Town, but for me it’s annoying that I have to avoid entire neighbourhoods (in my native city) because they have turned into ghettos, where police doesn’t dare to go and where families are growing very fast. They get educated in their own language and culture and this gets multiplied. And their numbers grow and grow…

Maybe you could watch some documentaries about ghettos in Paris. They may give you a better idea on what I mean. China Town is probably nothing compared to those ghettos, where the only law is the law of the gangs.

47

[quote]Edevus wrote:
And related to your post above. It’s different in USA since it’s a country born out of a colony and it’s based, pretty much, on multiculturualism.

For you maybe it may not be a big deal that you can’t find anyone to speak in English at China Town, but for me it’s annoying that I have to avoid entire neighbourhoods (in my native city) because they have turned into ghettos, where police doesn’t dare to go and where families are growing very fast. They get educated in their own language and culture and this gets multiplied. And their numbers grow and grow…

Maybe you could watch some documentaries about ghettos in Paris. They may give you a better idea on what I mean. China Town is probably nothing compared to those ghettos, where the only law is the law of the gangs.
[/quote]

I don’t doubt the veracity of your claims, amigo. I’m sure there’s plenty of neighborhoods in Paris that are as bad as you say they are. No doubt.

But like I said - we’ve had that here forever, from the very start.

Watch “Gangs of New York” about the Irish in the 1850s. The only law was the gangs…same thing in South Boston or Hell’s Kitchen going into the late 1980s…ethnic gangs, and they made the rules. The Mafia, the Yakuza now, the Russian mob…all of them have had their enclaves in major cities that they took over.

What you are talking about, however, has its roots more in poverty than it does in the particular race. There’s some ugly ass ghettos in Britain that I wouldn’t walk through, but they’re filled with white people. Same with Southie, you’d get your ass busted up if you walked through there whilst black.

My advice is get used to it. We have dealt with it forever, and once that pandora’s box is open, it will never be closed.

Like I said, I understand that it’s frightening because you guys haven’t had to deal with it, but the sooner you acclimate, the sooner you can get past the goofy xenophobic outlook and get to making progress as nations.

Although, America certainly hasn’t moved past that hatred of outsiders, so maybe I’m just being idealistic.

48

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]postholedigger wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Go to Chinatown in NYC. Nobody speaks English. Big fuckin deal. Don’t go there then.[/quote]

What if you’re not in Chinatown? What if you’re just at work and someone walks in and wants service but gets pissed off at you because you don’t understand their language or their broken English? Maybe it’s just me but every other country I’ve been in where I don’t speak the language or have a limited understanding of it, I’ve been pretty humble about it. I don’t make it their fault that I can’t make myself understood in their country. I face this every day at work.[/quote]

I don’t face it here at all. Most people that can’t speak English around here are probably Hispanics, but I’ve never come across any that actually got angry that I didn’t speak Spanish.

And I try to work with people who speak broken English. What the fuck, they’re trying.

Only one time when I was working retail did I have some guy get angry cause I didn’t speak his language. I kinda shrugged and walked away. Not my problem.

Although I always, ALWAYS had people coming up to me and speaking Italian to me because they assumed I would understand because of how I look. When I kind of smiled and shrugged, they were always apologetic.

Maybe it’s the way you guys go about this that gets people angry.[/quote]

Oh, it’s not like I don’t try to work with them. I have an, albeit limited, grasp of various languages and I try. But even then, some people seem to feel entitled to be catered to in their language and get irritated when they aren’t understood. And I’m not coming from a, “you come here to my country and don’t bother to learn our language” point of view. I’m not a native English speaker. I’m an immigrant. I chose to move here and I chose to take on the customs and language alongside my own. THAT’s what gets me irritated. I’ve been there. I’ve done it. Why can’t others bother to make the effort?

BTW, as an aside, I also paid the fees and jumped through the hoops to become a legal permanent resident and it bothers me that there are people who don’t bother with the process and fees who will enjoy the same benefits (if not more) than those of us who did it legally. And it bothers me further that there are people who argue that illegal immigration should be legal.

49

[quote]postholedigger wrote:

Oh, it’s not like I don’t try to work with them. I have an, albeit limited, grasp of various languages and I try. But even then, some people seem to feel entitled to be catered to in their language and get irritated when they aren’t understood. And I’m not coming from a, “you come here to my country and don’t bother to learn our language” point of view. I’m not a native English speaker. I’m an immigrant. I chose to move here and I chose to take on the customs and language alongside my own. THAT’s what gets me irritated. I’ve been there. I’ve done it. Why can’t others bother to make the effort?

BTW, as an aside, I also paid the fees and jumped through the hoops to become a legal permanent resident and it bothers me that there are people who don’t bother with the process and fees who will enjoy the same benefits (if not more) than those of us who did it legally. And it bothers me further that there are people who argue that illegal immigration should be legal.
[/quote]

You are totally entitled to that opinion, it’s certainly not irrational. I could see it being something that would aggravate you, especially because you have done all the bullshit - and there is a lot of it - to become a legal resident.

One thing I have long said is that they should make the process of becoming a US citizen easier, and quicker. Less people would try to go around it if it wasn’t as arduous as it is.

50

[quote]Edgy wrote:
I want to agree with Maschy, but it must be disturbing on some level that the birthrate of the ‘immigrants’ is so outpacing the ‘established’ populace, that the ‘established’ will be the minority within one generation.

this will affect the country in that the majority would, at that point be completely muslim.

not that this is a travesty, but a concern nonetheless.

am I wrong?[/quote]

I assume you’re speaking of France? I guess you have a point. But then again, the French have already banned any outward displays of religion - they are, or claim to be, a secular society. So what does it matter what the popular religion is, when no one can publicly practice it?

Unless there’s some sort of Muslim revolution that arises from this next generation…but that seems highly unlikely.

51

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:
So please FightinIrish26, give me your point of view on people who move to another country, don’t learn the language, don’t work, don’t study and just leech from the government support.

Libert�??�??�??�?�©?
[/quote]

I think there’s just as many native born people who don’t work, don’t study, and just leech from government support.

Most folks that I see that come here work their asses off. If anything, in my eyes the new immigrants work way, way harder than white people, who somehow feel entitled to things.

[/quote]

And I have zero problems with immigrants who work hard. And I don’t disagree with the fact that they have to work harder (and I’m one myself), but what about those who can’t be bothered to do anything, not even learn the language?

Do you think it’s normal to have a ghetto in Paris with third generation immigrants who doesn’t even bother with the language? Do you think that no action should be taken?
[/quote]

Uh… yea, I do. That kind of stuff happens all the time here. Although most people here use English, if they’re around their ilk they don’t.

Go to Chinatown in NYC. Nobody speaks English. Big fuckin deal. Don’t go there then.[/quote]

And related to your post above. It’s different in USA since it’s a country born out of a colony and it’s based, pretty much, on multiculturualism.

For you maybe it may not be a big deal that you can’t find anyone to speak in English at China Town, but for me it’s annoying that I have to avoid entire neighbourhoods (in my native city) because they have turned into ghettos, where police doesn’t dare to go and where families are growing very fast. They get educated in their own language and culture and this gets multiplied. And their numbers grow and grow…

Maybe you could watch some documentaries about ghettos in Paris. They may give you a better idea on what I mean. China Town is probably nothing compared to those ghettos, where the only law is the law of the gangs.

[/quote]

I honestly don’t know enough about Parisien Ghettos, and I’m not about to do any research right now, so I’m just going to take your word for it.

But frankly, I’m quite surprised that even the police won’t go there and that their completely overrun and the children are uneducated…it sounds awful. Part of me would even think that clearly your administration is not handling the situation in a very good way. Perhaps instead of looking to remove all these immigrants, they should attempt to better assmimilate them? Perhaps under this banner of French nationalism they might be better behaved? lol!

In the US, and I’m speaking broadly here, while its true that immigrants do not assimilate well into US culture, holding on to their language, customs and living in ethnic enclaves (sometimes ghettos), first generation immigrants and even more, second generation immigrants are very-well assimilated. To the point where many of these children of immigrants surpass not only the socio-economic status of their parents, but of other native-born Americans. Chinese immigrants, for example, are one of the most upwardly mobile groups here in the US - and most enter with very little starting capital.

I know a lot of people argue that undocumented immigrants are bleeding our welfare system - but their children can assimilate, when given the opportunities, to the point where they are an asset to US society.

They are children born in the US, they have simply by existence adopted US customs (as well as kept their maternal customs, but this is another topic all together), and as the statistics show, can be a great source of economic vitality to a an economic system that is greatly flailing. To not allow these children the education they deserve and the healthful living their entitled to, is quite frankly, a detriment to the US economy.

52

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]postholedigger wrote:

Oh, it’s not like I don’t try to work with them. I have an, albeit limited, grasp of various languages and I try. But even then, some people seem to feel entitled to be catered to in their language and get irritated when they aren’t understood. And I’m not coming from a, “you come here to my country and don’t bother to learn our language” point of view. I’m not a native English speaker. I’m an immigrant. I chose to move here and I chose to take on the customs and language alongside my own. THAT’s what gets me irritated. I’ve been there. I’ve done it. Why can’t others bother to make the effort?

BTW, as an aside, I also paid the fees and jumped through the hoops to become a legal permanent resident and it bothers me that there are people who don’t bother with the process and fees who will enjoy the same benefits (if not more) than those of us who did it legally. And it bothers me further that there are people who argue that illegal immigration should be legal.
[/quote]

You are totally entitled to that opinion, it’s certainly not irrational. I could see it being something that would aggravate you, especially because you have done all the bullshit - and there is a lot of it - to become a legal resident.

One thing I have long said is that they should make the process of becoming a US citizen easier, and quicker. Less people would try to go around it if it wasn’t as arduous as it is. [/quote]

I can also see why this might be aggravating to you. I live in NYC - its quite diverse and many immigrants simply refuse to assimilate.

I will say this though, unless you know for a fact, you don’t know the plight of an individual immigrant. For example, many immigrants in the US are just transients - they’re here to make some money, they send some home in the meantime and then they go back to their countries!

The immigrant population in the US is a very astute contingency - a lot of them are simply revolving door immigrants that work within these, for lack of a better term, subversive enterprises, where they give each other jobs, lend each other money, help each other find housing, etc. etc. You’d be surprised how LITTLE the US gov actually plays a role in their lives.

lol! This will probably piss you off more, but I think its shear brilliance.

Anyways, the way I see it, in the end, over 3 quarters of the world is trying to escape the fetters of corporate hegemony to just make a buck to get by, send their kids to school and die of old age. I mean really, give these fuckers a break.

53

beauty and brains.

I didn’t read a word of it, but it is still relevant and insightful.

brilliant.

now, get nekkid and PM me some pics, dammit!

54

[quote]Edgy wrote:
beauty and brains.

I didn’t read a word of it, but it is still relevant and insightful.

brilliant.

now, get nekkid and PM me some pics, dammit![/quote]

First I lull you into a trance with lots of words, and then I SNARE you with my jiggly lady bits!

<<<<Right Daddy?>>>>

55

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
beauty and brains.

I didn’t read a word of it, but it is still relevant and insightful.

brilliant.

now, get nekkid and PM me some pics, dammit![/quote]

First I lull you into a trance with lots of words, and then I SNARE you with my jiggly lady bits!

<<<<Right Daddy?>>>>[/quote]

sigh

purrrrrrrrfect, Darlin. Purrrrrrrrfect~

56

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
beauty and brains.

I didn’t read a word of it, but it is still relevant and insightful.

brilliant.

now, get nekkid and PM me some pics, dammit![/quote]

First I lull you into a trance with lots of words, and then I SNARE you with my jiggly lady bits!

<<<<Right Daddy?>>>>[/quote]

sigh

purrrrrrrrfect, Darlin. Purrrrrrrrfect~
[/quote]

Have to admit I totally got sucked in there as well. Eyes flitting from the words to the avi, back and forth…over and over…

57

Edevus is right. Before defending the immigration policy of a foreign country you should have been there and seen it. Immigrants are turning this country which in my eyes has something very special into crap.

French people have all the rights to prevent the kind of immigration that directly affect the collective happiness.

You do understand that they are way more in number than us? If one can come here and profit of the wealth, why not the other 10 of his family? Hey lets completely switch population.

Also saying that they are poor because of past imperialism (our fault) is just not true.

58

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The July 14, 1789 storming of the Bastille - the French fortress where political prisoners were held during the reign of King Louis XVI - was the flashpoint of the French Revolution and one of the most glorious moments in all of human history. It’s a day that’s not remembered as it should be - the French citizens following in our footsteps, and abolishing their monarchy forever.

Happy Bastille Day.[/quote]

Ah yes, what a surprise that someone would celebrate killing a Christian King and being rebellious. [/quote]

What does the “Christian king” have to do with anything? Christian my ass, they built great halls while the people starved.

You’re catholic. Everyone has caught on by now. We get it. Back to the dungeons with you also, I think there are some gays for you to bash somewhere.[/quote]

A supposed Christian people killed a Christian king. They killed a person in order to get what they want, alas their actions are immoral and disobedient.

Glad you caught on that I am Catholic. Hope everyone sees that you’re a bigot and that you just like to throw around ad hominem attacks, such a great journalist.

59

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
revolution due to inhuman treatment of the proletariat?

been done througout history, with multiple countries and peoples.

the only really good thing to come out of the revolution is french pastries.

they are purdy damn good.[/quote]

Yea but they always ended up in another kind of monarchy. While the French did go through the Napoleonic era, which was both good and bad for them, it shook every monarchy in Europe to the core, and between our success and the French philosophies about equality and egalitarianism, it really was the death knell for old Europe.
[/quote]

Except we didn’t fight against Monarchy, we fought against a tyranny. Most people in the Colonies still wished to be under the British Crown or be under a crown. The idea that American’s didn’t want a King is disingenuous at best, a blatant lie probably. [/quote]

Having recognized long ago how skewed your vision of history is, I’m not going to get into the ridiculousness of this.[/quote]

Oh really? Interesting you say this after you admit that you have only read thirty pages of one book and Rousseau.

Since you are so sure my view of history is skewed, please show me in what context did we fight against George III (was it because he was following the English constitution or was it because he was going against the EC?), what unwritten document (or collaboration of documents) did we write our Constitution after, what was the general sentiment of the 13 Colonies before and after the War of Independence?

Was there any other options put forth for the leader of the 13 Colonies besides President? Did all 13 Colonies wish to declare their Independence from the British Crown?

60

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
revolution due to inhuman treatment of the proletariat?

been done througout history, with multiple countries and peoples.

the only really good thing to come out of the revolution is french pastries.

they are purdy damn good.[/quote]

Yea but they always ended up in another kind of monarchy. While the French did go through the Napoleonic era, which was both good and bad for them, it shook every monarchy in Europe to the core, and between our success and the French philosophies about equality and egalitarianism, it really was the death knell for old Europe.
[/quote]

Except we didn’t fight against Monarchy, we fought against a tyranny. Most people in the Colonies still wished to be under the British Crown or be under a crown. The idea that American’s didn’t want a King is disingenuous at best, a blatant lie probably. [/quote]

Having recognized long ago how skewed your vision of history is, I’m not going to get into the ridiculousness of this.[/quote]

Oh really? Interesting you say this after you admit that you have only read thirty pages of one book and Rousseau.

Since you are so sure my view of history is skewed, please show me in what context did we fight against George III (was it because he was following the English constitution or was it because he was going against the EC?), what unwritten document (or collaboration of documents) did we write our Constitution after, what was the general sentiment of the 13 Colonies before and after the War of Independence?

Was there any other options put forth for the leader of the 13 Colonies besides President? Did all 13 Colonies wish to declare their Independence from the British Crown?[/quote]

You bore me. I’m not debating with you. Go talk to someone down in the GOP Blowjob Barn that gives a fuck what you say.