Bastille Day

Off Topic
21

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
revolution due to inhuman treatment of the proletariat?

been done througout history, with multiple countries and peoples.

the only really good thing to come out of the revolution is french pastries.

they are purdy damn good.[/quote]

Yea but they always ended up in another kind of monarchy. While the French did go through the Napoleonic era, which was both good and bad for them, it shook every monarchy in Europe to the core, and between our success and the French philosophies about equality and egalitarianism, it really was the death knell for old Europe.
[/quote]

Except we didn’t fight against Monarchy, we fought against a tyranny. Most people in the Colonies still wished to be under the British Crown or be under a crown. The idea that American’s didn’t want a King is disingenuous at best, a blatant lie probably.

22

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Damn this Bastille Day shit is serious.[/quote]

Screw Bastille Day, Screw Regicide Peace!

Long live the King, Long live the King!

23

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
The July 14, 1789 storming of the Bastille - the French fortress where political prisoners were held during the reign of King Louis XVI - was the flashpoint of the French Revolution and one of the most glorious moments in all of human history. It’s a day that’s not remembered as it should be - the French citizens following in our footsteps, and abolishing their monarchy forever.

Happy Bastille Day.[/quote]

Ah yes, what a surprise that someone would celebrate killing a Christian King and being rebellious. [/quote]

What does the “Christian king” have to do with anything? Christian my ass, they built great halls while the people starved.

You’re catholic. Everyone has caught on by now. We get it. Back to the dungeons with you also, I think there are some gays for you to bash somewhere.

24

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
revolution due to inhuman treatment of the proletariat?

been done througout history, with multiple countries and peoples.

the only really good thing to come out of the revolution is french pastries.

they are purdy damn good.[/quote]

Yea but they always ended up in another kind of monarchy. While the French did go through the Napoleonic era, which was both good and bad for them, it shook every monarchy in Europe to the core, and between our success and the French philosophies about equality and egalitarianism, it really was the death knell for old Europe.
[/quote]

Except we didn’t fight against Monarchy, we fought against a tyranny. Most people in the Colonies still wished to be under the British Crown or be under a crown. The idea that American’s didn’t want a King is disingenuous at best, a blatant lie probably. [/quote]

Having recognized long ago how skewed your vision of history is, I’m not going to get into the ridiculousness of this.

25

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
And let’s not forget that the remnants of “liberte, egalite, fraternite” has also lead France to an almost irrational level of nationalism, which contradictory to any democractic ideals, has expungded immigrants that have entered their country illegally (despite France’s rampant imperialism into their countries in the past) and banned any outward displays of individual religious belief…

The French Revolution is fascinating though! And Paris does have lovely monuments.[/quote]

Are you surprised about this? They have to put a full-stop to this madness. How it’s possible that THIRD generation inmigrants do not speak French? All their measures got a quite clear target and I support it.
Many European countries will be starting to do this or they will be overrun. Inmigrants who don’t bother to integrate have 8-9 children. Due to lack of integration, they receive no education, so they have little future to find a good job. Do you know where a country is heading if a big part of the population is almost useless? Nowhere good.

You do the maths. Most European countries have a birthrate if 1.5. Most inmigrants that have no education or job have 6-9. That single local kid will not have his own kids until he or she is 30-32 (random age), while those 6-9 will have their own in the early twenties. Multiply, multiply, multiply…

France got a big warning when that retard killed himself while fleeing from the police. They have to take measures.

26

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
And let’s not forget that the remnants of “liberte, egalite, fraternite” has also lead France to an almost irrational level of nationalism, which contradictory to any democractic ideals, has expungded immigrants that have entered their country illegally (despite France’s rampant imperialism into their countries in the past) and banned any outward displays of individual religious belief…

The French Revolution is fascinating though! And Paris does have lovely monuments.[/quote]

Are you surprised about this? They have to put a full-stop to this madness. How it’s possible that THIRD generation inmigrants do not speak French? All their measures got a quite clear target and I support it.
Many European countries will be starting to do this or they will be overrun. Inmigrants who don’t bother to integrate have 8-9 children. Due to lack of integration, they receive no education, so they have little future to find a good job. Do you know where a country is heading if a big part of the population is almost useless? Nowhere good.

You do the maths. Most European countries have a birthrate if 1.5. Most inmigrants that have no education or job have 6-9. That single local kid will not have his own kids until he or she is 30-32 (random age), while those 6-9 will have their own in the early twenties. Multiply, multiply, multiply…

France got a big warning when that retard killed himself while fleeing from the police. They have to take measures.[/quote]

No, I do not find this at all surprising. Your argument is the same all over the world in countries where in-migration upsets the economic balance of the country.

I do, however, find it ironic, that countries which have historically purported imperialist agendas, that have gone into other countries and exploited those countries people and resources, would so hastily seek to remove their undocumented immigrants. Immigrants who essentially have had to emigrate in part because of the long-lasting effects of said imperialism.

I don’t have a solution for this global problem, I’m merely critiquing it. I just think that using the guise of “nationalism” to foster intolerance towards individuals who are merely seeking a better life and to be contenders in the free-economy, to buy their Naf-Naf and Nikes and other bullshit (an aspiration ingrained, yet again, by these same historically imperialist countries), is silly. We do that here in the US just as it is done every where else in the world. Its a symptom of capitalism and a neo-liberal market, and it makes sense that a country would feel the need to “close its borders” in order to protect its resource, despite how inhumane that might be.

I will say though, and I’m sorry to break it to you, but 8 or 9 little brown babies will probably be less of an economic burden for a country than 3 “native” (read White) babies. Its a matter of consumption, and your native, well-educated, and upper class citizens will always consume more than your underclass. And we all see how well a consumer market has been working for our economies…no?

27

I want to agree with Maschy, but it must be disturbing on some level that the birthrate of the ‘immigrants’ is so outpacing the ‘established’ populace, that the ‘established’ will be the minority within one generation.

this will affect the country in that the majority would, at that point be completely muslim.

not that this is a travesty, but a concern nonetheless.

am I wrong?

28

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
And let’s not forget that the remnants of “liberte, egalite, fraternite” has also lead France to an almost irrational level of nationalism, which contradictory to any democractic ideals, has expungded immigrants that have entered their country illegally (despite France’s rampant imperialism into their countries in the past) and banned any outward displays of individual religious belief…

The French Revolution is fascinating though! And Paris does have lovely monuments.[/quote]

Are you surprised about this? They have to put a full-stop to this madness. How it’s possible that THIRD generation inmigrants do not speak French? All their measures got a quite clear target and I support it.
Many European countries will be starting to do this or they will be overrun. Inmigrants who don’t bother to integrate have 8-9 children. Due to lack of integration, they receive no education, so they have little future to find a good job. Do you know where a country is heading if a big part of the population is almost useless? Nowhere good.

You do the maths. Most European countries have a birthrate if 1.5. Most inmigrants that have no education or job have 6-9. That single local kid will not have his own kids until he or she is 30-32 (random age), while those 6-9 will have their own in the early twenties. Multiply, multiply, multiply…

France got a big warning when that retard killed himself while fleeing from the police. They have to take measures.[/quote]

This is a pretty brutal post.

Vive’ liberte…

29

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
And let’s not forget that the remnants of “liberte, egalite, fraternite” has also lead France to an almost irrational level of nationalism, which contradictory to any democractic ideals, has expungded immigrants that have entered their country illegally (despite France’s rampant imperialism into their countries in the past) and banned any outward displays of individual religious belief…

The French Revolution is fascinating though! And Paris does have lovely monuments.[/quote]

Are you surprised about this? They have to put a full-stop to this madness. How it’s possible that THIRD generation inmigrants do not speak French? All their measures got a quite clear target and I support it.
Many European countries will be starting to do this or they will be overrun. Inmigrants who don’t bother to integrate have 8-9 children. Due to lack of integration, they receive no education, so they have little future to find a good job. Do you know where a country is heading if a big part of the population is almost useless? Nowhere good.

You do the maths. Most European countries have a birthrate if 1.5. Most inmigrants that have no education or job have 6-9. That single local kid will not have his own kids until he or she is 30-32 (random age), while those 6-9 will have their own in the early twenties. Multiply, multiply, multiply…

France got a big warning when that retard killed himself while fleeing from the police. They have to take measures.[/quote]

No, I do not find this at all surprising. Your argument is the same all over the world in countries where in-migration upsets the economic balance of the country.

I do, however, find it ironic, that countries which have historically purported imperialist agendas, that have gone into other countries and exploited those countries people and resources, would so hastily seek to remove their undocumented immigrants. Immigrants who essentially have had to emigrate in part because of the long-lasting effects of said imperialism.

I don’t have a solution for this global problem, I’m merely critiquing it. I just think that using the guise of “nationalism” to foster intolerance towards individuals who are merely seeking a better life and to be contenders in the free-economy, to buy their Naf-Naf and Nikes and other bullshit (an aspiration ingrained, yet again, by these same historically imperialist countries), is silly. We do that here in the US just as it is done every where else in the world. Its a symptom of capitalism and a neo-liberal market, and it makes sense that a country would feel the need to “close its borders” in order to protect its resource, despite how inhumane that might be.

I will say though, and I’m sorry to break it to you, but 8 or 9 little brown babies will probably be less of an economic burden for a country than 3 “native” (read White) babies. Its a matter of consumption, and your native, well-educated, and upper class citizens will always consume more than your underclass. And we all see how well a consumer market has been working for our economies…no?[/quote]

Oh man, what a post.

Nicely done.

Having Irish, Italian, and a slew of other nationalities in my blood who were absolutely despised by the natives of this country, I laugh a little when I hear that people now hate the hispanics in America or the Muslims in Europe.

Things never change. People just hate whomever is newest, regardless of how irrational that fear is.

They used to call my Irish brethren “locusts” because they were pouring into New York harbors 15,000 at a time… thank god the country’s come so far haha.

30

FightinIrish26, I’m of mixed nationality as well and I live outside my native country. So, I’m an inmigrant and son of an inmigrant. My mother integrated herself as much as she could. She speaks both local languages, didn’t “ghetto” herself, adopted local culture and tradition, etc.

I’m doing the same. I’m learning the local language and I’m trying to adapt as much as I can. I live by the established rules here, both cultural and the ones set by the Constitution and laws and all that. I’m also learning the local history and soon I’ll start studying the Constitution (as soon as my language skills allow it).

Now re-read my post, keeping this in mind, and realize how I’m targetting, especifically, those who hate the country where they live and refuse to integrate. Third generation Algerians who refuse to speak French, don’t work, live in ghettos and riot wildly when one of their own dies in an accident while fleeing the police after commiting a crime. Let’s not forget how some of them are taken out of the ghetto because they are good playing football, so they will be fed and trained by the French school system. Then, when they are good and old enough, after all what the French football federation has done for them, they choose to play for…Algeria.

Mascherano, the problem with undocumented inmigrants is that many of them just go into their ghettos (which are nasty places due to lack of hygiene and security), don’t integrate and end getting their little money from criminal acts.
The “whiteys” are more expensive for the government? In Spain, illegal inmigrants get free healthcare which includes FREE MEDICINES. You do the maths. Man, wife, lots of children, zero taxes paid, free healthcare for all of them. By the way, if you consume more, you pay more taxes (VAT) which is better for everybody in the end.

Now, some of them cross the sea, get to Spain, do an effort to learn the language and try to learn a job and live with dignity. These people have ALL my respect and I hope they get all the help they need to fully integrate.

Right now here, where I live, being a former Soviet republic, there’s this interesting thing. A third of the population is Russian. Many of them, for different reasons, don’t speak Estonian and don’t do any effort to integrate. They hate living in the country, miss the Soviet Union and are not shy to admit it. They whine constantly and blame the government for all their problems.
However, some of them do speak the language and try to integrate as much as they can. They will probably never feel “local” themselves, but that’s a different matter.

Now, in my office, try to figure out who gets sympathy from the locals, those who speak in English with the rest even if they have lived in the country for 25+ years, blame the government for anything and speak greatly of Russia…or those who speak the language and couldn’t care less about the Soviet Union?

If, in the future, a 51% of the population hate the country where they live, they couldn’t be bothered to learn the language, etc. what will happen?

31

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[/quote]

I’m not trying to nitpick to be disagreeable. I agree with most of what you’re saying. I just wanted to point out that it’s spelled “immigrants”, “immigrate” and “emigrate”. [/ asshole, spelling nazi] not that I’m implying that anyone is a nazi…oh god…please don’t kill me.

32

[quote]Edevus wrote:

Right now here, where I live, being a former Soviet republic, there’s this interesting thing. A third of the population is Russian. Many of them, for different reasons, don’t speak Estonian and don’t do any effort to integrate. They hate living in the country, miss the Soviet Union and are not shy to admit it. They whine constantly and blame the government for all their problems.
[/quote]

I don’t know if this is relevant, but I’ve had the opportunity to spend some time with some recent immigrants from the old soviet union, and was amazed at how disenfranchised they felt both within thier own country, and with living in the US.

don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed the time I spent with them and learned much about their culture, but they acted disparaging about the US government, nonetheless.

they were educated professionals, and were from Romania, Georgia and I think Slovenia. The few actual Russians that I have met, were of the same mindset, but less so~

33

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:

Right now here, where I live, being a former Soviet republic, there’s this interesting thing. A third of the population is Russian. Many of them, for different reasons, don’t speak Estonian and don’t do any effort to integrate. They hate living in the country, miss the Soviet Union and are not shy to admit it. They whine constantly and blame the government for all their problems.
[/quote]

I don’t know if this is relevant, but I’ve had the opportunity to spend some time with some recent immigrants from the old soviet union, and was amazed at how disenfranchised they felt both within thier own country, and with living in the US.

don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed the time I spent with them and learned much about their culture, but they acted disparaging about the US government, nonetheless.

they were educated professionals, and were from Romania, Georgia and I think Slovenia. The few actual Russians that I have met, were of the same mindset, but less so~[/quote]

I’m sure that half of the population of the US is acting disparagingly with the US government right now (republicans), but how do those immigrants talk about USA itself? I think that’s it’s a different issue. But for what I understand, they speak English and they are working, so even if they dislike the current government, they are somewhat integrated.

Russians here blame the government for things like “high unemployment rates among Russians”. Do you know what is the main cause of this? Language. Do you know what the government is doing? They pay you if you pass the local language exam, so if you want to take courses, they are almost free since government will pay back for each level you pass. What else can they do? They can’t force companies to hire Russians.

The government is taking very seriously this integration issue and they want that children, from very young, already try to form bonds with each other, no matter what background they have and language is the glue to stick both communities together.

[quote]postholedigger wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[/quote]

I’m not trying to nitpick to be disagreeable. I agree with most of what you’re saying. I just wanted to point out that it’s spelled “immigrants”, “immigrate” and “emigrate”. [/ asshole, spelling nazi] not that I’m implying that anyone is a nazi…oh god…please don’t kill me. [/quote]

“Inmigrantes” in Spanish, that’s why I spell it like that in English too. I need to remember the double m.

34

[quote]Edevus wrote:
FightinIrish26, I’m of mixed nationality as well and I live outside my native country. So, I’m an inmigrant and son of an inmigrant. My mother integrated herself as much as she could. She speaks both local languages, didn’t “ghetto” herself, adopted local culture and tradition, etc.

I’m doing the same. I’m learning the local language and I’m trying to adapt as much as I can. I live by the established rules here, both cultural and the ones set by the Constitution and laws and all that. I’m also learning the local history and soon I’ll start studying the Constitution (as soon as my language skills allow it).

Now re-read my post, keeping this in mind, and realize how I’m targetting, especifically, those who hate the country where they live and refuse to integrate. Third generation Algerians who refuse to speak French, don’t work, live in ghettos and riot wildly when one of their own dies in an accident while fleeing the police after commiting a crime. Let’s not forget how some of them are taken out of the ghetto because they are good playing football, so they will be fed and trained by the French school system. Then, when they are good and old enough, after all what the French football federation has done for them, they choose to play for…Algeria.

Mascherano, the problem with undocumented inmigrants is that many of them just go into their ghettos (which are nasty places due to lack of hygiene and security), don’t integrate and end getting their little money from criminal acts.
The “whiteys” are more expensive for the government? In Spain, illegal inmigrants get free healthcare which includes FREE MEDICINES. You do the maths. Man, wife, lots of children, zero taxes paid, free healthcare for all of them. By the way, if you consume more, you pay more taxes (VAT) which is better for everybody in the end.

Now, some of them cross the sea, get to Spain, do an effort to learn the language and try to learn a job and live with dignity. These people have ALL my respect and I hope they get all the help they need to fully integrate.

Right now here, where I live, being a former Soviet republic, there’s this interesting thing. A third of the population is Russian. Many of them, for different reasons, don’t speak Estonian and don’t do any effort to integrate. They hate living in the country, miss the Soviet Union and are not shy to admit it. They whine constantly and blame the government for all their problems.
However, some of them do speak the language and try to integrate as much as they can. They will probably never feel “local” themselves, but that’s a different matter.

Now, in my office, try to figure out who gets sympathy from the locals, those who speak in English with the rest even if they have lived in the country for 25+ years, blame the government for anything and speak greatly of Russia…or those who speak the language and couldn’t care less about the Soviet Union?

If, in the future, a 51% of the population hate the country where they live, they couldn’t be bothered to learn the language, etc. what will happen? [/quote]

This is exactly the same rhetoric used for EVERY group to ever come to America.

You can explain all you want but this has all been heard before. The xenophobia won’t die out, it just switches to another race once the newest ones inevitably become assimilated.

Sorry bud.

35

[quote]Edevus wrote:
But for what I understand, they speak English and they are working, so even if they dislike the current government, they are somewhat integrated.
[/quote]

absoulutey, they are fully integrated, speaking english and working…definitely.

and, they are great fun loving and warm people, at least the ones that I’ve met.

I was just surprised at their disgust for our government, but you brought up a good point, that at any given time at least half of the US is disgusted with our government.

I guess I just assumed that since they went to the trouble of moving here, they’d be a little more tolerant of our system, assuming that they would be happy to be here.

thats all - like I said, mebbe this isn’t relevant.

36

[quote]Edevus wrote:

Understood. I kinda figured that from my limited grasp of the Spanish language. Cheers, dude.

37

So please FightinIrish26, give me your point of view on people who move to another country, don’t learn the language, don’t work, don’t study and just leech from the government support.

Liberté?

38

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
This is exactly the same rhetoric used for EVERY group to ever come to America.
[/quote]

there was a tv show an movie that outlined exactly that. that people are upset by whomever is new and different.

the show/movie is Alien Nation.

39

[quote]postholedigger wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:

Understood. I kinda figured that from my limited grasp of the Spanish language. Cheers, dude.[/quote]

Thanks for the correction. Let’s see if I can remember now!

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:
But for what I understand, they speak English and they are working, so even if they dislike the current government, they are somewhat integrated.
[/quote]

absoulutey, they are fully integrated, speaking english and working…definitely.

and, they are great fun loving and warm people, at least the ones that I’ve met.

I was just surprised at their disgust for our government, but you brought up a good point, that at any given time at least half of the US is disgusted with our government.

I guess I just assumed that since they went to the trouble of moving here, they’d be a little more tolerant of our system, assuming that they would be happy to be here.

thats all - like I said, mebbe this isn’t relevant.
[/quote]

Yeah, then it’s totally fine. The issue, in my opinion, and what annoys me, is people living outside the system while milking it.

40

[quote]Edevus wrote:
So please FightinIrish26, give me your point of view on people who move to another country, don’t learn the language, don’t work, don’t study and just leech from the government support.

Liberté?
[/quote]

I think there’s just as many native born people who don’t work, don’t study, and just leech from government support.

Most folks that I see that come here work their asses off. If anything, in my eyes the new immigrants work way, way harder than white people, who somehow feel entitled to things.