Wow! It’s not even worth trying with this winner, RJ. Here’s just a sample of the nonsense coming out of his mouth:
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
And someone can take a suspension and not admit to guilt.
[/quote]
Hey, genius, nearly all players that test positive deny it or claim they don’t know how it got in their system. This is true with all substance users, not just athletes.
What benefit of the doubt is there to give, Mick? They tested positive, and I’m sure most of them even appealed, and were still suspended.
You can’t seriously be this lost in the conversation. I’m starting to believe this is some kind of weird internet joke.
I can’t believe anyone actually thinks steroids helped save Hank Aaron’s record. That’s just comnpletely ridiculous. If steroids didn’t exist, do you actually think another slugger (or bonds) would have broken Hank’s record sooner? Please… No one else is even close to Hank’s record. Junior had a shot but injuries kept him off the field for a good five years or so.
Mick, I gotta say, give it up. If you just wanted to state your opinion that Bonds should have been indicted, because steroids are fucking up baseball, and the governement has the legal right to intervene, fine. It’s the high road, conservative opinion, but it’s your right to this belief and with some good reasons.
However, what you are doing on this thread is trying to prove, instead, that EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG. Your are going after one detail after another, or responding to one attack after another, trying to win as if this was a debate contest. You’re not winning, nobody’s winning here, because this thread is like the problem itself-far more complicated and ominous than you seem to realize.
I suggest we let the thread die. Doc
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
I did. You just can’t seem to grasp the fact that I cited an ESPN analyst saying that 54% of the players suspended for steroid use are pitchers.
And…are those the same analysts that you’ve attacked on this thread for treating Bonds like a steroid user BEFORE he has been proven to be one?
You can’t have it both ways- Tell me is Bonds a steroid user because ESPN says so?
And someone can take a suspension and not admit to guilt.
You don’t understand this shit?
[/quote]
The same guys that are hating on Barry also report that the Red Sox won the World Series. Am I not to believe that fact? Good God, you cannot be this fucking obtuse in real life, can you?
But here - I found my source, and am posting it. I take it to be fact. If you don’t, it will be on you to disprove it. I have no interest in further proving facts reported. It is not my responsibility. I cited the source and provided a link.
You have to listen all the way through, as the evidence is 8 seconds from the end.
Now - being suspended is not the same as suspicion. None of the pitchers, or other players were under suspicion. They were suspended for factually breaking the rules.
Until you can understand this - you have no business posting any further on this matter. You might want to go learn more about baseball while you are at it.
I asked you to name the pitchers that were busted for steroids, and you couldn’t do it. [/quote]
Wit even just a quick internet I could name over 50. But why should I? You don’t even understand the debate. Hell, you don’t even understand baseball. But, ok, here’s a few. Of course this won’t be enough names, or some other lame excuse.
Need more? How about John Rocker, Paul Byrd, Dave Sehui who all admitted using. YET, YOU COULDN’T RECALL ONE FREAKIN’ PITCHER!!!
[quote]
What I get in return are generalizations in place of where your argument should be.[/quote]
What generalizations have I given you? Do you even know where I stand in this debate? Do you even know what the debate is regarding?
[quote]
Again, you brought up the argument regarding the many pitchers who were on steroids who actually leveled the playing field as they were pitching to Bonds rivals.[/quote]
You keep saying “Bonds rivals.” Who the hell are you referring to?
Oh, really?[quote]
Now I’ll ask you again, who were the pitchers?
[/quote]See above[quote]
How many were there?
[/quote]Lots[quote]
How good were they?
[/quote]Why does this matter?[quote]
Which league did they play in?[/quote]
What? They played in my local bar league. You can’t really be this freakin’ lost.[quote]
If you don’t have the answers to these questions I suggest you try to find them. If you can’t find them I suggest that before you mouth off again that you actually know what you’re talking about.[/quote]
I suggest “you actually know what you’re talking about.” Again, if you knew anything about baseball, you would be able to recall at least ONE GODDAMN PITHCER!!!
[quote]
Honestly, the more I think of your asinine defense the funnier it gets. It’s tantamount to “hey everyone was doing it so it just doesn’t matter.”[/quote]
I’ve never even said anything along those lines. Try again, chief.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
I asked you to produce some evidence regarding the pitchers who were nailed for roids because you and your pal stated that that one fact changed the integrity of the game…which is bullshit.[/quote]
SO - juiced hitters change the integrity of the game, and juiced pitchers is okay with you.
There’s bullshit alright - but it’s all on your side of the fence.
I told you the proof was in the last 8 seconds. I am sorry you had to sit through racist stuff - but that’s where the proof was. I could give a flying fuck what you want. Burden of proof has been satisfied. It’s up to you to make your case - not mine.
Then get off your lazy ass and start looking. I provided enough proof to show that over half the folks being suspended for juicing are pitchers. If you want names - fire up the google.
[quote]One more time just to be clear,
I want to know how many pitchers were using because that number could actually determine if the game of baseball was actually changed because of this.[/quote]
Then start looking. You want more than I am responsible for providing. My point has been backed up.
[quote]And you might want to learn about the definition of “Evidence”.
[/quote]
You haveyet to post anything even remotely related to proof. ALl you can do is say. “Oh Yeah? Prove it. Then prove it some more, Then go hunt up this laundry list of questions until I am satisfied”.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Evn more of the same mind-numbing clueless bullshit.
[/quote]
If you have questions - look for the answers. It’s not my job to answer your questions for you.
The fact that you don’t like the proof provided is no concern of mine.
You say that the proof is not good enough. Fine, then it should be no problem for you to provide proof that will support your contention that it is perfectly fine for pitchers to juice, but hitters will destry the integrity of the game.
You prove your ignorance of the sport every time you post.
DO us all a favor and STFU until you actually learn the delicate relationship between a pitcher and a hitter.
Need more? How about John Rocker, Paul Byrd, Dave Sehui who all admitted using. YET, YOU COULDN’T RECALL ONE FREAKIN’ PITCHER!!!
Wow you actually tried to prove that bullshit point of yours, you’re far more stupid than I originally thought.
I read each site you gave me and came away with only six pitchers who were tested positive for using steroids. Sorry I couldn’t count one of those sites as they talked about minor league players who took steroids. Unless of course you are now claiming that minor league pitchers also changed the face of major league baseball.
Okay, let’s add the three above to the list, that makes a whopping 9 pitchers.
Ha ha…now I know why you didn’t want to post anything.
So 9 pitchers changed the face of baseball huh? They “leveled the playing field.” Oh and I think something like 3 or 4 of the 9 were relief pitchers.
Good job Mr. Bullshit!
You’ve proven that once again any retard can post on a message board.
But it takes a special kind of retard to claim that 9 pitchers changed the entire face of the game.
Ha ha…buy a clue somewhere…please…
[/quote]
Wow…
Alright, let’s start with this: Just admit you don’t follow baseball or understand the game. It shows more and more with each post.
Next, I’m stupid, a retard, and Mr. Bullshit. I think the worst I called you was a sarcastic “genius.” Thanks.
Also, I’m making an effort to answer your questions. To retain any credibility in this discussion – which you probably don’t have anyway – you should attempt to answer mine.
Now here’s where your ignorance of baseball really starts to show. So what if some of the pitchers were minor leaguers? Did you know that players can bounce back and forth? Probably not.
Also, that list was just the first page in a quick google search, plus a few I remembered off the top of my head. There are plenty more. What’s a matter, Paul Byrd’s not a big enough name for you? Are you disappointed there’s no Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson on the list? If this investigation were fair, they just might be.
One more glaring display of ignorance is your disregard of the importance of relief pitching. What is your point with that? Relief pitchers face the same damn batters.
I also never said they changed the face of MLB. But if their performance benefited from steroids, then they definitely altered situations. If you understood baseball, you might realize how much more influence pitching has on a game, as opposed to batting. An unfair edge means that much more for pitching. Don’t worry, I don’t expect you to get it.
So, since you seem to have lost it, my point remains, Hank Aaron’s record, as well as others, have been protected and preserved by pitching having an unfair edge. You then asked for proof that pitchers have used steroids. For some reason, despite your amazing baseball knowledge, you couldn’t remember a single pitcher failing a drug test. So I tried to jog your memory with a few examples, but of course, it wasn’t good enough.
The problem is your mind is already made up. It was made up by the 10 o’clock news and the sensationalizing media. It wasn’t made up by actually watching baseball and knowing the game. It wasn’t by actually learning anything about steroids on your own. You were told that Barry Bonds is an asshole and steroids are bad. You believed. I feel sorry for you.
baseball has only been suspending guys for steroids since 2005 and the total count is 17 players. 10 of those are pitchers:
juan salas…dbacks
jason grimsley…dbacks
guillermo mota…mets
yusaka iriki…mets
felix heredia…mets
ryan franklin…mariners
carlos almanzar…rangers
augustin montero…rangers
rafael bettencourt…indians
juan rincon…twins
given that just about 1/2 the guys a team carries are pitchers is it that unreasonable that steroid use was/is pretty equal between pitching and hitting ??
Nice job leaving out half my post. I’ll assume that is an admission that you truly know nothing about baseball.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
my point remains, Hank Aaron’s record, as well as others, have been protected and preserved by pitching having an unfair edge.
Nearest I could tell from the sites that you and your buddy have posted, there were just not enough pitchers who were suspended for roids to amount to a hill of shit.
Your contention that Hank Aarons record was protected is just plain silly.
You then asked for proof that pitchers have used steroids.
I wanted numbers, of course “some” were suspended. But it was my contention that it didn’t amount to much after all of the bluster. And…I was right.[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAA
Again, proof you don’t understand the game, or this debate. When over half the players that test positive are pitchers, most would believe that it DOES amount to something, jackass.
You failed to understand because you’re semi-retarded and a moron and debate like a left-handed kindergartner with a lisp.
What “facts” have you looked at? You don’t know any facts about baseball or steroids. You are completely ignorant on both subjects. Give it up, dumbass.
Are you implying I am a steroid user? It sure sounds like it. Is this another one of your “facts”? Well, all of us non-heroin addicts can think clearly and follow discussions.
[quote]
Only you and rainy know best…Yet you can’t even prove a simple point. One that you walk around daily believing. It might be time to actually examine the facts instead of taking a contrary position for the hell of it. Just because you are in the minority on the issue does not make you a great outside the box thinker. [/quote]
This coming from a guy who said this:
“My brother told me of one early poll on the subject. The poll has the public agreeing by a very wide margin (85%) that Bonds should go down for this.”
HAHAHA! “My brother told me”!?! And I’m supposed to take you seriously? And I’m the one not presenting facts? “My brother told me” C’mon!
[quote]
You’ve not shown me anything…NADA!
You were told that Barry Bonds is an asshole and steroids are bad. You believed. I feel sorry for you.
Honestly, I couldn’t care less about Bonds. I don’t hate him or love him. This was simply a debate about the use of steroids in major league baseball.
But it might be more than that to you huh?
And you might have let your own personal feelings sway your thought process. And that’s fine don’t get me wrong. But don’t go on a message board and declare to the world that pitchers on roids leveled the playing field. That had to be one of the dumbest things that I’ve ever read on this forum.[/quote]
Wow, really? That dumb? Then you disagree with a lot of people in the sports world. But being the avid sports fan that you are, you already knew that, right? Oh, wait, that’s right…YOU DON’T KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT BASEBALL!
You would think that you might realize something is wrong with your line of thinking when no one in this thread agrees with you. You really suck at this, loser.
baseball has only been suspending guys for steroids since 2005 and the total count is 17 players. 10 of those are pitchers:
juan salas…dbacks
jason grimsley…dbacks
guillermo mota…mets
yusaka iriki…mets
felix heredia…mets
ryan franklin…mariners
carlos almanzar…rangers
augustin montero…rangers
rafael bettencourt…indians
juan rincon…twins
given that just about 1/2 the guys a team carries are pitchers is it that unreasonable that steroid use was/is pretty equal between pitching and hitting ??
[/quote]
And the only one on the hot seat is Bonds. Which is part of the original bitch I had: Bonds is being singled out.
Does this mean that the AL has better drug testing, or could it explain the dominance of the AL over the NL?