Barry Bonds and Steroid Use

Off Topic
81

The average sap out there thinks just because you take steroids you are going to be superman! Wrong! Do I think Bonds is on the juice? Yes, I do. Do I think it had something to do with all the homers? Yes, I do, but it’s only a part of the overall equation. It’s Barry’s work ethic, diet, workouts,skills, shitty expansion teams, maple bats, the lack of quality young pitchers ( they are too rushed out of the minors and because no great athtlete wants to pitch anymore)and the juice balls.

The amazing things about Bonds is that he never had anybody hitting behind him and he usually only gets one great pitch to hit. Remember all the walks he gets! Bonds is just a great athlete. A professinal one, mind you. He did nothing illegal, except lie. That’s his business what he does or did. To take away his records is absurd. If so, we should take away Ruth’s record too since no Asians, Latinos or Blacks were playing then!

What about Lance Armstrong? He always has allegations too. Should we take away his wins too? The average lazy fat ass fans who do not workout or do athletics want take away his accomplishments. They are the hyprocrates! Only a fool would look at Sosa, Big Mac and think that they were all natural. You guys like the big jacks and now you guys feel lied to. Lied to? Are you buddies with these athletes? Give me a break. 71 jacks is 71 jacks. Amazing. Steroids or not.

If only steroids were the reason why Bonds was hitting all those homers, then ARNOLD should have been the best home run hitter of all time. Now, should we take away his Mr.O belts? So you average saps quit your whinning, drink your beer and let us take our training to the next level.Let us do whatever it takes to compete at the highest level. True athletes do that, steroids or not.

82

Well said, Jackson44!

They’re grown men, let them use whatever they want. I never understood the media’s horror over steroids/amphetimines/performance enhancers. The government’s pressure on professional sports to clean up is a more ridiculous colossal clusterfuck. It still seems like a dream/nightmare that Sosa, McGuire, Palmeiro, etc. were front and center at a Congressional hearing.

Did that really happen?! I want to see Hillary Clinton interrogating Louie Simmons, Kazmeir, Chuck V., Scott Mendelson. I want my government to clean up powerlifting and strongman. Where do my tax dollars go anyway?
Chicks dig the longball!

83

I am amazed he can swing a bat with all that non-functional muscle.

84

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I am amazed he can swing a bat with all that non-functional muscle.[/quote]

I love it how people talk about how the pencil necked sports writers talk about how big Bonds is. He’s big, but he’s not THAT big.

85

sorry folks i just have to say this…

“baseball been barry barry good to me.”

…carry on.

86

[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I am amazed he can swing a bat with all that non-functional muscle.

I love it how people talk about how the pencil necked sports writers talk about how big Bonds is. He’s big, but he’s not THAT big.
[/quote]

True! I’d hope that with a more modern understanding of how building muscles could improve performance we would have SOME natural 6-3 225 pound players-It’s the 21st century for gosh sakes.

He used, but at any rate, MLB should be loaded with guys that bid naturally. Hank Aaron was 6-0 and listed at 180, but probably was 205 in his mid 30s. Put that on a 6-3 guy and he should be 240-250.

87

[quote]BIG_SEXY wrote:
DHP you are a fool.You don’t need no damn steroids.Take a look at me.Prime example.I’ve been doing westside for skinny bastards and look at me now.I mean damn!!![/quote]

LOL, you’ve built a very impressive physique…

keep up the good work!

88

Dude, the average baseball player today is at least 20-30 lbs heavier than the guys I watched growing up in the eighties…Canseco looked monstrous compared to the Dale Murphys and Oil Can Boyd’s of the day…now there are second baseman bigger than he was.

89

The timing of this book is remarkable. But it was calculated.

The only way those two reporters get that level of detail of information is if it came directly from the federal investigators and prosecutors on the BALCO case. From the get-go, the feds had an anti-Bonds agenda. They wanted to bag the big trophy and nail Bonds; but they couldn’t. The fact that they didn’t prosecute Bonds when they had the chance means they didn’t have enough incriminating evidence on him. That never sat well with them. So what’s the next best thing they could do? Smear him. The feds gave those reporters all the info they wanted with only one request: make sure the book comes out before the start of the season.

90

It is not just the investigators that are leaking, it is his former mistress.

There are a few lessons to be learned here.

Steroids work for a while. You can add a few quality years to your career.

More muscle makes you a better ballplayer.

Don’t treat people like shit or they will piss all over you when they get the chance.

91

[quote]DPH wrote:
tarfu81 wrote:
Do you think cocaine would help a player any at all?

absolutely!

cocaine is an amazing CNS stimulant, much like ephedrine…

it also has to ability to alleviate pain…[/quote]

Are you kidding me?! Oh, yeah, coke is great for paranoia and seeing shadows. Yeah, it’s great for Ken Caminiti, who killed himself due to his addiction. That’s why it’s a main ingredient in Frosted Flakes. It starts your day right!

Cocaine use was rampant in baseball in the past, and was determined by the commish to be a very bad inflence on baseball. Not to mention that the substance is illegal in this country.

The negative effects of this drug far outweigh any CNS “benefits.” The ONLY thing coke is good for is numbing your gums before an oral drubbing. Anything else, and either you’re lying to yourself, not aware of the facts or ignorant.

92

[quote]MrWhite wrote:
GymGeek wrote:
So what if he did. I know plenty of guys taking the same stuff that could never turn around on a 95 mph fastball and smack it 450 feet.

That’s because guys you know can’t hit a freakin’ baseball and Barry can, plain and simple.

That’s the same ol’ lame arguement he’s used and others have used all along. Total avoidance of why the league says you can’t use roids.
Listening to people in trouble on t.v. and elsewhere. They show classic crawfishing when asked the tough question.

ex: “Do you think it’s fair for a player to use perfomance enhancing drugs when others are playing by the rules?” Answer…“it doesn’t help hand eye coordination, doesn’t help with fundamentals etc.” But they know damm well what it does help.
[/quote]

It helps turn a routine fly out into a home run. Who else doesn’t see how this would change a persons batting average, slugging percentage, on base percentage and home run totals? Really, a show of hands please. Who doesn’t believe that an extra ten feet on a fly ball doesn’t change EVERYTHING.

93

[quote]kroby wrote:
MrWhite wrote:
GymGeek wrote:
So what if he did. I know plenty of guys taking the same stuff that could never turn around on a 95 mph fastball and smack it 450 feet.

That’s because guys you know can’t hit a freakin’ baseball and Barry can, plain and simple.

That’s the same ol’ lame arguement he’s used and others have used all along. Total avoidance of why the league says you can’t use roids.
Listening to people in trouble on t.v. and elsewhere. They show classic crawfishing when asked the tough question.

ex: “Do you think it’s fair for a player to use perfomance enhancing drugs when others are playing by the rules?” Answer…“it doesn’t help hand eye coordination, doesn’t help with fundamentals etc.” But they know damm well what it does help.

It helps turn a routine fly out into a home run. Who else doesn’t see how this would change a persons batting average, slugging percentage, on base percentage and home run totals? Really, a show of hands please. Who doesn’t believe that an extra ten feet on a fly ball doesn’t change EVERYTHING.[/quote]

The tighter wound ball would be the culprit here along with shorter parks, stadiums designed to create a draft to the outfield and harder throwing pitchers. There are too many variables out there to say “roids” alone created the HR boom.

94

[quote]kroby wrote:
MrWhite wrote:
GymGeek wrote:
So what if he did. I know plenty of guys taking the same stuff that could never turn around on a 95 mph fastball and smack it 450 feet.

That’s because guys you know can’t hit a freakin’ baseball and Barry can, plain and simple.

That’s the same ol’ lame arguement he’s used and others have used all along. Total avoidance of why the league says you can’t use roids.
Listening to people in trouble on t.v. and elsewhere. They show classic crawfishing when asked the tough question.

ex: “Do you think it’s fair for a player to use perfomance enhancing drugs when others are playing by the rules?” Answer…“it doesn’t help hand eye coordination, doesn’t help with fundamentals etc.” But they know damm well what it does help.

It helps turn a routine fly out into a home run. Who else doesn’t see how this would change a persons batting average, slugging percentage, on base percentage and home run totals? Really, a show of hands please. Who doesn’t believe that an extra ten feet on a fly ball doesn’t change EVERYTHING.[/quote]

Baseball geek that I am, I’ve discussed this a lot. And, in the way it’s been mentioned above, I really don’t believe it changes EVERYTHING. Look at the balls Bonds hits when he really makes solid contact. With his homers, he’s regularly driving the ball over 400 feet, and probably closer to 450. If steroids only gave him an extra ten feet, what’s the point? Making the splashdown happen a bit further out in McCovey Cove? PacBell (or whatever the hell it’s called now) is something like 310 down the right field line, and it’s not like Bonds is just creeping them over that wall.

Basically, I think the “adds X feet to a fly ball” is a simplification of what steroids do for hitters. In general, I think the overall increase in muscle mass generally just allows for greater bat speed, which is beneficial to more than pure power. Sure, maybe Bonds cranks his homers a bit further. More importantly, though, is that he can catch up to 98mph fastballs that he might have just fouled off with a slower swing, or foul off the same fastball when he might have been late and missed with a slower swing.

More bat speed also means Bonds can hold his swing a fraction of a second longer, allowing him to be more patient and disciplined at the plate - guys with slower bats have to offer at pitches sooner, making it easier to get them to whiff at a great slider or make lousy contact with a changeup, etc. This is part of why the generation of chemically-generated power hitters also draw so many walks - more time to tell if a pitch is a ball or strike.

I don’t have any science to back this up, per se, but the improvements that known juicers have shown extend beyond simply turning warning-track outs into third row homers. They’re making more contact as well as better contact and giving themselves the luxury of more patience when deciding to swing, which manifests itself as better plate discipline. Look at Ken Caminiti’s “MVP” season - career high in homers, but also in hits, doubles, batting average (by about 25 points) and his second highest walk total.

95

[quote]PGA200X wrote:

The tighter wound ball would be the culprit here along with shorter parks, stadiums designed to create a draft to the outfield and harder throwing pitchers. There are too many variables out there to say “roids” alone created the HR boom.[/quote]

Thats like saying a 500 HP car goes fast because the tires are good or the bucket seat is comfy.

Steroids are performance enhancers. HRs went sky high when players were on juice. What is your point?

Over analyzing the obvious makes no sense.

96

[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
If they toss him, even though it wasn’t illegal, then there are a whole lot of people that should be bounced from the late 50’s and 60’s. [/quote]

For all of you who don’t know the facts…in 1991 the Commissioner, Fay Vincent at the time, sent a memorandum to all baseball clubs about the MLB drug policy. It included the following provisions: The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited. Those involved in the possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game.

Enough said. It was illegal. Not enforced but illegal. Full policy at bottom of this link.

http://www.baseballplayamerica.com/page4.html

97

[quote]kroby wrote:
Are you kidding me?!
[/quote]

no…

negative effects outweight the positive effects with ANY drug taken in too high a dosage…

only drugs that the U.S. government doesn’t make a profit off of are potentially harmful and addicting?

yeah, I guess no one ever killed themselves with abusive levels of alcohol or nicotine…

I wonder what the commish thinks of rampant alcohol and prescription pain killer abuse in baseball…

that’s what the federal government wants you to think…good job following along!

cocaine in small dosages is a highly effective CNS stimulant…whether you like that fact or not…

[quote]
The ONLY thing coke is good for is numbing your gums before an oral drubbing. Anything else, and either you’re lying to yourself, not aware of the facts or ignorant.[/quote]

ignorant? not aware of the facts? hahahahahaha…

moderation in all things!

98

[quote]kane101nod wrote:
I found ‘periods of rage’ to be rather incongruous with being a ‘menacing boor.’ I personally can’t remeber a boring moment viewing a big guy having a wild mood swing while his hair falls out.
-k
[/quote]

They wrote boor, not bore. There is a difference in the two words.

99

[quote]CajunMoose wrote:
RoadWarrior wrote:
If they toss him, even though it wasn’t illegal, then there are a whole lot of people that should be bounced from the late 50’s and 60’s.

For all of you who don’t know the facts…in 1991 the Commissioner, Fay Vincent at the time, sent a memorandum to all baseball clubs about the MLB drug policy. It included the following provisions: The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited. Those involved in the possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game.

Enough said. It was illegal. Not enforced but illegal. Full policy at bottom of this link.

http://www.baseballplayamerica.com/page4.html
[/quote]

That’s part of the Basic Agreement terms between the players union and MLB ownership and was an element of the labor issue. It wasn’t a specific rule added to Major League Baseball, not like the gambling prohibition is. Like the morals and standards clause of a basic player contract (which the Yankees considered using to terminate Jason Giambi’s contract in 2004), it’s an ‘out’ for a MLB team in the event a player is enmeshed in any seriously illegal and unpopular behavior.

The steroid suspension policy implemented in 2005 is an addendum to the actual rules of the game of baseball, and the first time any drug legislation with a specific penalty system has appeared in the game.

100

[quote]PGA200X wrote:

The tighter wound ball would be the culprit here along with shorter parks, stadiums designed to create a draft to the outfield and harder throwing pitchers. There are too many variables out there to say “roids” alone created the HR boom.[/quote]

With this train of thought, wouldn’t it be more likely to see 60 HR’s more often? But it hasn’t happened since BB. We’re barely seeing 40 HR’s now. Hmmmmmm…