Baltimore Burning

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

Here is what I see AC: cops kill another unarmed black in Anytown, USA. Agitators then come to a WHITE SUBURB are cause havoc. Police fight back this time and shit finally gets real.

They will learn they won’t wake up whitey until it happens in their hood.

Watch.
[/quote]

Utter horse shit. Just utter horse shit to the 9th degree.

Fucking skin color has nothing to do with it. Police get away with killing white people too, white people riot quite often too, and burn shit and destroy areas of cities.

Good lord.
[/quote]

Not disagreeing with you completely, but when was the last time white people rioted ?[/quote]

February of 2014, Ukraine.
[/quote]

Got anything more local ?
[/quote]

Please indulge us. Let’s start with our continent, and work our way to our country for starters.

And please no references to Boston circa 1770.

102

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Aggv, why hasn’t the MD National Guard seized Baltimore city? [/quote]

I’m not keeping up with the specifics of this event to know details, but imho a military force is probably not the best thing to ease tensions.

I would bet every cent i have they’re flying drones over the city and keeping an eye on everything.

103

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Probably not.

Do you believe the government had already written the Patriot Act in hopes that an event would occur so that they could enact it? [/quote]

Absolutely, and they probably have all kinds of legislation written which is just waiting for the right time to enact it. [/quote]

Well…

104

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Aggv, why hasn’t the MD National Guard seized Baltimore city? [/quote]

I’m not keeping up with the specifics of this event to know details, but imho a military force is probably not the best thing to ease tensions.

I would bet every cent i have they’re flying drones over the city and keeping an eye on everything. [/quote]

I didn’t ask you your thoughts on easing tension. I asked you why hasn’t the government used this situation to take control? Troops are on the group, why haven’t they opened fire? Why hasn’t President Obama declared martial law? Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

I doubt there are drones flying over head.

105

More info on possible professional protesters AC.
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/04/28/social-media-analysis-suggests-links-between-baltimore-and-ferguson-violence/

NickViar, where were you last night?

Just kidding buddy…

106

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

I’ll agree with you on this except the “know good lawyers” part. That’s a part of the problem here–when somebody reasonably believes they can get away with shit because you don’t have money to hire a good lawyer or you’re relying on an overworked and underpaid public defender well…things don’t necessarily have to go so great for you.[/quote]

I don’t have lawyers that will be able to get me off something I’m guilty of, I’m not OJ Simpson.

I do, however, know lawyers who would be more than willing to sue the living fuck out of the state if they falsely arrested me. And I know those that don’t charge if the case is good.

And no, if you have a criminal record, your case isn’t good. Choices have consequences. [/quote]

Totally agree with you. And I wasn’t suggesting that they could get you out of a guilty verdict…I was agreeing with you on the “sue the fuck out of the city” part. But the thing is, my example didn’t preclude an innocent guy getting arrested. You have a good social network and a good job. That means you have money and access to people those living in poverty working shit jobs do not, no need for a criminal record at all to get harrassed or arrested on “probable cause” or anything else.

As they say, it really is about who you know.

I’ve seen what happens when southie cops drag you out of a bar (white guy) and take you for a “walk” down near the shore.

The amazing thing is, out of the three people there, he was the only one to get his ass beat.

I’ve had the cops show up in the middle of a fist fight, and seen what happens when you resist. I didn’t end up my head bounced off the street a couple times for good measure, cuffs or a court case. Others did.

It’s all about choices. I’ve talked to Cops off duty that it wouldn’t surprise me if some day catch a charge like those that spark this riot. However, I can’t say that I’ve ever met them with the uniform on. I assume I’m not just that lucky… But maybe I am. I’ve been fucked with, talked down to, harassed and generally treated like shit, but… I made choices.
[/quote]

Once again, I agree with you. I have never been arrested. I hope that I am never arrested. I do not plan to start committing robberies or anything else like that so hopefully I never have to deal with it. I think I even wrote up there that “it doesn’t excuse the need to be responsible and obedient”. I agree choices are important.

107

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Who brings race into the discussion? [u][i]They[/u][/i] fucking do!!

Destructive drunk UK college kids breaking shit is not the same thing. [/quote]

The fact you don’t see how this post, in and of itself, contributes to the problem is why we have the problem we do.

The people cheering for LEO to government the shit out of these rioters and protect and serve them with batons, jack boot thuggery and state sponsored violence bring up race.

The people who excuse the poor choices of individuals based on their skin color and economic condition also bring up race.

If “they” are both “they” who are you?
[/quote]

What interviews/sound bites have you been watching? These are the words of the looters. When asked why, “they” blame institutional racism and the establishment for their plight. “They” blame this oppression causes frustration, and the frustration erupts into violence. I observe and listen to what “they” (read rioters/looters) say and repeat it. It’s not my social commentary. [/quote]

Right, those would be the people I listed in the second part in my post. Those that excuse poor choices.

My question still stands though, who are you if they are “they”?

I’m not trying to peg you against any wall and call you a racist, that solves nothing, and I don’t think you are. I’m trying to make a point about people that not enough people want to make these days.

In raw numbers there are a hell of a lot more poor white people than black people. I mean we all know “trailer park, toothless redneck, marry your sister” jokes… It isn’t like those come from nothing. It isn’t like these white folks don’t suffer at the hands of dickhead police form time to time.

What’s the difference? Opportunity and/or population density. Urban areas are much more prone to opportunity for people to commit crimes. It isn’t like there isn’t a shit load of poaching and illegal hunting out in the sticks of the country… There is and they take it serious. Is that really all that different than selling a rock or hustling some bootlegs?

People are packed into tight neighborhoods, that are downtrodden due to the poor choices of those that live there. The poor white neighborhoods, the trailer parks aren’t as packed, and are further away from commercial zones. Economic status matters, for sure, but it isn’t the driving force.

Had the Roman’s gone south, the races in America would be flip flopped, and we’d be black people complaining about those white animals in Baltimore today. This is a human condition, not a skin color one.

[quote] These are just the uncomfortable facts.
[/quote]

Honest question: how do you feel when you say things like this? I’m not expecting “white guilt” nor should white people who aren’t racist assholes have it. But have you ever thought about how you feel when you say things like this, and why that is? More importantly to you catch they way society wants you to feel about it?

I have… And it’s odd. One corner of society conditions you to feel guilty for saying it. Another, ashamed. Another proud, and more still excited. It’s odd.

108

^ I know from raw numbers there are more poor whites. Of course. Whites make up a significant amount of the populace as opposed to the 12% black. But the poor white that live in the trailer parks don’t have the family issues I believe that the inner city does. And the density breeds crime. I would say lack of education is probably similar. But here is the difference: the government enslavement through what is referred to as assistance.

And the resistance to have a true conversation about socio-economics and race in America. The reason I rail on it is because it’s getting worse. I don’t want to like in a damn police state. But what is the answer? The police are now neutered. So how do we deal with this hostility? Remember, it’s not ALL directed at the po po. It’s at lack of jobs, opportunity, schools etc. it’s the whole package.

The po po are the easiest to identify and fight.

And how do I feel?? Uncomfortable!! It sucks talking about the real problems because it is depressing and there is so little hope it will get better. A black president has made it worse.

It’s sad really.

109

I can tell you guys personally, that if you are arrested, do not resist.

It’s not a battle you can win, and will only make your situation worse. I was being housed in the North Las Vegas County Jail waiting to take Con Air, and I saw a guy get his head split open from a cop hitting him in the head with his flashlight for mouthing off. You never know what mood cops are in, maybe he didn’t get laid the night before, or he got his ass chewed by his supervisor before his shift.

Just do as your told for the time being, because fighting your charge is MUCH harder while being locked up. Life sucks ass, and your access to resources is shit. Get the hell out on bail, then fight your case.

110

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Had the Roman’s gone south, the races in America would be flip flopped, and we’d be black people complaining about those white animals in Baltimore today. This is a human condition, not a skin color one.
[/quote]

Yes.

In the decades preceding the Civil War the exact same grievances were directed towards the Irish, for example.

You can take Australia for a more specific example:

Or if you want to get really, really, really specific, take Wallis and Futuna. There are around 15 thousands Wallisians and Futuans (sp?), yet their immigration to New Caledonia is causing an upheaval there for the same reasons as in Baltimore…

111

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Aggv, why hasn’t the MD National Guard seized Baltimore city? [/quote]

I’m not keeping up with the specifics of this event to know details, but imho a military force is probably not the best thing to ease tensions.

I would bet every cent i have they’re flying drones over the city and keeping an eye on everything. [/quote]

I didn’t ask you your thoughts on easing tension. I asked you why hasn’t the government used this situation to take control? Troops are on the group, why haven’t they opened fire? Why hasn’t President Obama declared martial law? Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

I doubt there are drones flying over head.
[/quote]

The simplest answer is because it wasn’t enough. Don’t get me wrong what happened lastnight was bad, but no one died, and it’s not like they were burning down homes.

One day the riots will turn into witch hunts, people pulling other people out of cars and beating them to death, lighting houses and churches and hospitals on fire, etc…

112

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Aggv, why hasn’t the MD National Guard seized Baltimore city? [/quote]

Because Gov. Martin O’Malley (D-MD) is waiting for Clinton to finally implode due to her rampant corruption before he announces his run for POTUS, which efforts will require monolithic black votes.

113

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
One day the riots will turn into witch hunts, people pulling other people out of cars and beating them to death, lighting houses and churches and hospitals on fire, etc…
[/quote]

typical complete bullshit hyperbole from an internet nostradamus.

114

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Aggv, why hasn’t the MD National Guard seized Baltimore city? [/quote]

I’m not keeping up with the specifics of this event to know details, but imho a military force is probably not the best thing to ease tensions.

I would bet every cent i have they’re flying drones over the city and keeping an eye on everything. [/quote]

The MD National Guard was deployed to assist police forces in keeping order and to establish deterrence vis-a-vis the rioters. The captain of the Baltimore PD made that quite clear.

Yes, I’m sure there are multiple MQ-1 Predator drones armed with AGM-114 Hellfire missiles.

115

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
^ I know from raw numbers there are more poor whites. Of course. Whites make up a significant amount of the populace as opposed to the 12% black. But the poor white that live in the trailer parks don’t have the family issues I believe that the inner city does. And the density breeds crime. I would say lack of education is probably similar. But here is the difference: the government enslavement through what is referred to as assistance.

And the resistance to have a true conversation about socio-economics and race in America. The reason I rail on it is because it’s getting worse. I don’t want to like in a damn police state. But what is the answer? The police are now neutered. So how do we deal with this hostility? Remember, it’s not ALL directed at the po po. It’s at lack of jobs, opportunity, schools etc. it’s the whole package.

The po po are the easiest to identify and fight.

And how do I feel?? Uncomfortable!! It sucks talking about the real problems because it is depressing and there is so little hope it will get better. A black president has made it worse.

It’s sad really. [/quote]

I assure you that poor Caucasians have similar family issues. They are also receiving public assistance. Worse compared to what/when…there have certainly been many periods when things where much worse than they are today. IMO…law enforcement isn’t neutered; they currently have more resources and unconditional judicial support than in any other period in the modern era. How exactly has a black President made things worse?

116

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
^ I know from raw numbers there are more poor whites. Of course. Whites make up a significant amount of the populace as opposed to the 12% black. But the poor white that live in the trailer parks don’t have the family issues I believe that the inner city does. And the density breeds crime. I would say lack of education is probably similar. But here is the difference: the government enslavement through what is referred to as assistance.

And the resistance to have a true conversation about socio-economics and race in America. The reason I rail on it is because it’s getting worse. I don’t want to like in a damn police state. But what is the answer? The police are now neutered. So how do we deal with this hostility? Remember, it’s not ALL directed at the po po. It’s at lack of jobs, opportunity, schools etc. it’s the whole package.

The po po are the easiest to identify and fight.

And how do I feel?? Uncomfortable!! It sucks talking about the real problems because it is depressing and there is so little hope it will get better. A black president has made it worse.

It’s sad really. [/quote]

I assure you that poor Caucasians have similar family issues. They are also receiving public assistance. Worse compared to what/when…there have certainly been many periods when things where much worse than they are today. IMO…law enforcement isn’t neutered; they currently have more resources and unconditional judicial support than in any other period in the modern era. How exactly has a black President made things worse?
[/quote]

I think this is the fire after so much tension with certain racial events over the last couple of years. You’ve got Trayvon, South Carolina police officer shoots unarmed man in the back, Freddy, Ferguson, I can’t breathe, etc. Right, wrong, indifferent in those cases it seems like this may be some sort of tipping point.*

*Of course it’s all still horrible and undeniably not the right way to handle something, but that’s just what I think.

I just don’t like to see the divisive comments that come out whenever these things take place. Article comments, facebook, etc all have veiled and unveiled racist comments that essentially boil down to “this is what black people do.” No it’s not. It’s what SOME black people did.

I’m white and I’d be pretty pissed off if someone said this is what white people do based off the following list that could expand for days:

Adam Lanza
Hitler
Holmes
Dahmer
Manson
etc. :slight_smile:

I completely agree with your cops aren’t neutered comment. You mean because they can’t get away with beating the holy fuck out of people anymore? Because cameras exist that catch a cop shooting an unarmed man in the back?

We have more resources than ever to deal with criminals. More than ever.

117

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

Here is what I see AC: cops kill another unarmed black in Anytown, USA. Agitators then come to a WHITE SUBURB are cause havoc. Police fight back this time and shit finally gets real.

They will learn they won’t wake up whitey until it happens in their hood.

Watch.
[/quote]

Utter horse shit. Just utter horse shit to the 9th degree.

Fucking skin color has nothing to do with it. Police get away with killing white people too, white people riot quite often too, and burn shit and destroy areas of cities.

Good lord.
[/quote]

Not disagreeing with you completely, but when was the last time white people rioted ?[/quote]

February of 2014, Ukraine.
[/quote]

Got anything more local ?
[/quote]

Please indulge us. Let’s start with our continent, and work our way to our country for starters.

And please no references to Boston circa 1770.
[/quote]

Okay. Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1921, was the last time white people in the United States had a serious riot, in which white mobs destroyed 35 blocks of the black business district, killing between 40 and 300 blacks (depending on who you ask), injuring 800, and leaving ten thousand homeless.

I mean, there were the “civil rights” riots in the sixties in which white people participated, but these were primarily black race riots, and the instigators were not white. And the anti war protests, of course, were not “riots” per se.

The early twentieth and late nineteenth centuries were full of white-on-black riots in the United States. Some with pretty impressive body counts.

1917, St. Louis, Missouri: three thousand white rioters loot and burn black homes, destroy black business district, kill between 100 and 200 blacks.
1908, Springfield, Illinois
1906, Atlanta, Georgia: ten thousand white rioters kill 40 blacks, drive the rest out of the city.
1898, Lake City, South Carolina
1898, Phoenix, South Carolina
1898, Wilmington, North Carolina: two thousand white rioters kill 60 blacks
1876, Hamburg, South Carolina
1874, Liberty Place, Louisiana: five thousand White League rioters kill 40 blacks
1874, Coushatta, Louisiana: White League kills 20 blacks
1874, Vicksburg, Mississippi: 31 blacks killed
1873, Colifax, Louisiana: white mob burns down courthouses with blacks inside, killing up to 150
1871, Meridian, Mississippi: white mobs burn down black homes and schools, killing 30
1870, Eutaw, Alabama
1870, Laurens, South Carolina
1868, Opalousa, Louisiana: 1000 white rioters kill 100 blacks
1866, Memphis, Tennessee: 46 blacks killed, 5 black women raped, a hundred buildings looted and burned by white rioters.

So. I’d say whites win, whaddya think? White people don’t fuck around. At least they didn’t used to. Buncha pussies, these days.

118

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

Here is what I see AC: cops kill another unarmed black in Anytown, USA. Agitators then come to a WHITE SUBURB are cause havoc. Police fight back this time and shit finally gets real.

They will learn they won’t wake up whitey until it happens in their hood.

Watch.
[/quote]

Utter horse shit. Just utter horse shit to the 9th degree.

Fucking skin color has nothing to do with it. Police get away with killing white people too, white people riot quite often too, and burn shit and destroy areas of cities.

Good lord.
[/quote]

Not disagreeing with you completely, but when was the last time white people rioted ?[/quote]

February of 2014, Ukraine.
[/quote]

Got anything more local ?
[/quote]

Please indulge us. Let’s start with our continent, and work our way to our country for starters.

And please no references to Boston circa 1770.
[/quote]

Okay. Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1921, was the last time white people in the United States had a serious riot, in which white mobs destroyed 35 blocks of the black business district, killing between 40 and 300 blacks (depending on who you ask), injuring 800, and leaving ten thousand homeless.

I mean, there were the “civil rights” riots in the sixties in which white people participated, but these were primarily black race riots, and the instigators were not white. And the anti war protests, of course, were not “riots” per se.

The early twentieth and late nineteenth centuries were full of white-on-black riots in the United States. Some with pretty impressive body counts.

1917, St. Louis, Missouri: three thousand white rioters loot and burn black homes, destroy black business district, kill between 100 and 200 blacks.
1908, Springfield, Illinois
1906, Atlanta, Georgia: ten thousand white rioters kill 40 blacks, drive the rest out of the city.
1898, Lake City, South Carolina
1898, Phoenix, South Carolina
1898, Wilmington, North Carolina: two thousand white rioters kill 60 blacks
1876, Hamburg, South Carolina
1874, Liberty Place, Louisiana: five thousand White League rioters kill 40 blacks
1874, Coushatta, Louisiana: White League kills 20 blacks
1874, Vicksburg, Mississippi: 31 blacks killed
1873, Colifax, Louisiana: white mob burns down courthouses with blacks inside, killing up to 150
1871, Meridian, Mississippi: white mobs burn down black homes and schools, killing 30
1870, Eutaw, Alabama
1870, Laurens, South Carolina
1868, Opalousa, Louisiana: 1000 white rioters kill 100 blacks
1866, Memphis, Tennessee: 46 blacks killed, 5 black women raped, a hundred buildings looted and burned by white rioters.

So. I’d say whites win, whaddya think? White people don’t fuck around. At least they didn’t used to. Buncha pussies, these days.[/quote]

That’s interesting. I knew there was many riots in our past (with the sarcastic Tea Party reference). I was just thinking in the last 50 years or so.

119

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
^ I know from raw numbers there are more poor whites. Of course. Whites make up a significant amount of the populace as opposed to the 12% black. But the poor white that live in the trailer parks don’t have the family issues I believe that the inner city does. And the density breeds crime. I would say lack of education is probably similar. But here is the difference: the government enslavement through what is referred to as assistance.

And the resistance to have a true conversation about socio-economics and race in America. The reason I rail on it is because it’s getting worse. I don’t want to like in a damn police state. But what is the answer? The police are now neutered. So how do we deal with this hostility? Remember, it’s not ALL directed at the po po. It’s at lack of jobs, opportunity, schools etc. it’s the whole package.

The po po are the easiest to identify and fight.

And how do I feel?? Uncomfortable!! It sucks talking about the real problems because it is depressing and there is so little hope it will get better. A black president has made it worse.

It’s sad really. [/quote]

I assure you that poor Caucasians have similar family issues. They are also receiving public assistance. Worse compared to what/when…there have certainly been many periods when things where much worse than they are today. IMO…law enforcement isn’t neutered; they currently have more resources and unconditional judicial support than in any other period in the modern era. How exactly has a black President made things worse?
[/quote]

I think this is the fire after so much tension with certain racial events over the last couple of years. You’ve got Trayvon, South Carolina police officer shoots unarmed man in the back, Freddy, Ferguson, I can’t breathe, etc. Right, wrong, indifferent in those cases it seems like this may be some sort of tipping point.*

*Of course it’s all still horrible and undeniably not the right way to handle something, but that’s just what I think.

I just don’t like to see the divisive comments that come out whenever these things take place. Article comments, facebook, etc all have veiled and unveiled racist comments that essentially boil down to “this is what black people do.” No it’s not. It’s what SOME black people did.

I’m white and I’d be pretty pissed off if someone said this is what white people do based off the following list that could expand for days:

Adam Lanza
Hitler
Holmes
Dahmer
Manson
etc. :slight_smile:

I completely agree with your cops aren’t neutered comment. You mean because they can’t get away with beating the holy fuck out of people anymore? Because cameras exist that catch a cop shooting an unarmed man in the back?

We have more resources than ever to deal with criminals. More than ever. [/quote]

Correct. He took a tremendous opportunity (first minority president) and shit on it through his own hubris. When he was elected, even the people that were against him HOPED at the very least it would help race relations. That was one saving grace. All the people I know, including me thought this way. Sure, there will always be die-hard racists that you can never change, but I’m talking about the soft middle. But Obummer failed, probably due to his own issues of self-identification.

120

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Aggv, why hasn’t the MD National Guard seized Baltimore city? [/quote]

Because Gov. Martin O’Malley (D-MD) is waiting for Clinton to finally implode due to her rampant corruption before he announces his run for POTUS, which efforts will require monolithic black votes.
[/quote]

O’Malley isn’t the governor any longer. Larry Hogan (R) has been in office for a few months now.