I think the larger point is this: to say this crisis represents a failure of free market, unregulated capitalism is laughable.
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
I think the larger point is this: to say this crisis represents a failure of free market, unregulated capitalism is laughable. [/quote]
Free market? What free market?
[quote]lixy wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
I think the larger point is this: to say this crisis represents a failure of free market, unregulated capitalism is laughable.
Free market? What free market?[/quote]
Exactly what I’m trying to say Lixy.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Ren wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:
Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.
I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.
I fully agree with you on this one. However, in the interest of keeping with the “pesky facts”, I feel a need to point something out. The events in this link state that Bush had been warning everyone about this since he took office in 2001. According to the link, he repeatedly told Congress aobut this but they didn’t pay any attention to him and did nothing. What was not pointed out was that from 2001 to 2006 the Republicans held the majority of both houses. By the fallout came, the Democrats had just taken over with the slim majority they have now. So the entire time Bush is yelling “the sky is falling”, his own party was ignoring him. This is further evidence that this is a bipartisan fuck up and not just the dems fault. Many people on here like to try to say that it is one party or the others fault. Let’s be honest, they are all to blame.
Nope. You still have to look at who sat on the relavent commities. Have you heard of a philibuster? Might want to look into this a bit more.
[/quote]
Yes, I have heard of a filibuster and I am actually in the process of looking things up to have a better understanding of this mess. So, unlike some, I am doing my research. I don’t have all of the dynamics yet, but I am working on it. All I can see thus far is that both sides share blame and picking sides and saying one has less blame than the other is idiotic. BTW, if you want to be an effective smartass, correct spelling helps.
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
dhickey wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Ren wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:
Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.
I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.
I fully agree with you on this one. However, in the interest of keeping with the “pesky facts”, I feel a need to point something out. The events in this link state that Bush had been warning everyone about this since he took office in 2001. According to the link, he repeatedly told Congress aobut this but they didn’t pay any attention to him and did nothing. What was not pointed out was that from 2001 to 2006 the Republicans held the majority of both houses. By the fallout came, the Democrats had just taken over with the slim majority they have now. So the entire time Bush is yelling “the sky is falling”, his own party was ignoring him. This is further evidence that this is a bipartisan fuck up and not just the dems fault. Many people on here like to try to say that it is one party or the others fault. Let’s be honest, they are all to blame.
Nope. You still have to look at who sat on the relavent commities. Have you heard of a philibuster? Might want to look into this a bit more.
Yes, I have heard of a filibuster and I am actually in the process of looking things up to have a better understanding of this mess. So, unlike some, I am doing my research. I don’t have all of the dynamics yet, but I am working on it. All I can see thus far is that both sides share blame and picking sides and saying one has less blame than the other is idiotic. BTW, if you want to be an effective smartass, correct spelling helps.[/quote]
I’ve given up on correct spelling. My mind is wired for math, engineering, and logic. Evidently no room left for spelling or grammer.
There is plenty of blame to go around but some seem to think we should forget about and move on because both sides are to blame. The fact is, there are many degrees of blame. Some can be blamed for being passive or not aggressive enough. Other can be blamed for encouraging, and even forcing, the ill behaviour that got us into this mess. Even when the writing was on the wall they continued to actively block an preemtive strike. They held their ground until the whole thing came crashing down.
To me, these do not cancel each other out. I do not beleive there is moral equivilancy between actively destroying some and not doing enough to stop the destruction.
Feel free to correct and spelling errors.
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Yes, I have heard of a filibuster and I am actually in the process of looking things up to have a better understanding of this mess. So, unlike some, I am doing my research. [/quote]
You’ll want to start with Community Reinvestment Act. There were also efforts to stop the carniage in 2003 and 2005, I believe. You can try and sort throught Sarbanes Oxley, or just look at the Mark to Market portion.
The Roots of the Crisis
[quote]dhickey wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Yes, I have heard of a filibuster and I am actually in the process of looking things up to have a better understanding of this mess. So, unlike some, I am doing my research.
You’ll want to start with Community Reinvestment Act. There were also efforts to stop the carniage in 2003 and 2005, I believe. You can try and sort throught Sarbanes Oxley, or just look at the Mark to Market portion.[/quote]
Backround
http://aei.org/publications/pubID.28701,filter.all/pub_detail.asp
[quote]lixy wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
I think the larger point is this: to say this crisis represents a failure of free market, unregulated capitalism is laughable.
Free market? What free market?[/quote]
100 “Capitalist Points” for Lixy.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
lixy wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
I think the larger point is this: to say this crisis represents a failure of free market, unregulated capitalism is laughable.
Free market? What free market?
100 “Capitalist Points” for Lixy.[/quote]
Agreed. I didn’t expect to see Lixy pop up in defense of Capitalism.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
lixy wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
I think the larger point is this: to say this crisis represents a failure of free market, unregulated capitalism is laughable.
Free market? What free market?
100 “Capitalist Points” for Lixy.
Agreed. I didn’t expect to see Lixy pop up in defense of Capitalism.[/quote]
She’s not. She is once again lambasting the US. If we are making money and doing well - we are imperialist pigs.
She lives in Sweden - a bastion of free market enterprise, and is from Morocco, which has long been known as the birthplace of capitalism.
She spouts shit at every turn because that is what she is full of.
OK, bit of a hijack. I am going to make a very embarrassing admission. When we moved 7 years ago I was told by our next door neighbor at the time that Joe Knollenberg was the rep in this district and I have been emailing him since then though I’ve never called on the phone. I also voted straight republican in the last election except for Town Supervisor. Who would think somebody who didn’t know he wasn’t their rep would even know who he was?
What’s the old saying about assumption?
I have just this minute actually checked for the hell of it and discovered that Thaddeus G. McCotter is the house member from the 11th district of Michigan Which is fabulous news to me.
Wadda dunce I am.
I realize things in Washington “work” by compromise; but I sure hope McCotter and those like him (on both sides of the aisle) don’t accept some watered-down compromise that is just the same thing with different paint on it.
Do you guys see an acceptable compromise?
Mufasa
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Yes, I have heard of a filibuster and I am actually in the process of looking things up to have a better understanding of this mess. So, unlike some, I am doing my research.
You’ll want to start with Community Reinvestment Act. There were also efforts to stop the carniage in 2003 and 2005, I believe. You can try and sort throught Sarbanes Oxley, or just look at the Mark to Market portion.
It was not the CRA that caused this, it was the deregulation of the banking industry supported by the GOP Congress and Clinton in 1999. You are truly grasping at straws to try and blame the CRA for this. [/quote]
You are a complete dunce. You incapable of the slightest bit of reason. My father always told me that you can’t win an argument with an idiot because they are incapable of using reason. I can’t continue this with you. You have posted nothing of substance to back up your wild claims. Just becuase you think it should be republicans’ fault doesn’t make it so.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I realize things in Washington “work” by compromise; but I sure hope McCotter and those like him (on both sides of the aisle) don’t accept some watered-down compromise that is just the same thing with different paint on it.
Do you guys see an acceptable compromise?
Mufasa[/quote]
It’s not even watered down. It’s boozed up. They didn’t cut anything. They just added in a bunch of shit that both sides want. Their compromise was to go from a bill worth 700B to a bill worth Almost 900B.
This is a complete fucking screw job and it’s going to pass. Since being medicated, I can’t remember a time when I was more pissed. I had to send the kids to bed early so they wouldn’t hear me swear at CSPAN.
I just paid my lifetime membership to the Libertarian party. MN is close but McCain is no longer getting my vote. I am so pissed I might even vote for Al Franken over Norm Coleman if Norm doesn’t pull his head out of his ass.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
I realize things in Washington “work” by compromise; but I sure hope McCotter and those like him (on both sides of the aisle) don’t accept some watered-down compromise that is just the same thing with different paint on it.
Do you guys see an acceptable compromise?
Mufasa
It’s not even watered down. It’s boozed up. They didn’t cut anything. They just added in a bunch of shit that both sides want. Their compromise was to go from a bill worth 700B to a bill worth Almost 900B.
This is a complete fucking screw job and it’s going to pass. Since being medicated, I can’t remember a time when I was more pissed. I had to send the kids to bed early so they wouldn’t hear me swear at CSPAN.
I just paid my lifetime membership to the Libertarian party. MN is close but McCain is no longer getting my vote. I am so pissed I might even vote for Al Franken over Norm Coleman if Norm doesn’t pull his head out of his ass.[/quote]
You didn’t really think it was going to get smaller did you?
Maxine Waters: Through nearly a dozen hearings, we were frankly trying to fix something that wasn’t broke. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and particularly at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Franklin Raines. [Raines would barely avoid prosecution for fraud.]
Gregory Meeks: …I’m just pissed off at OFHEO [the regulators trying to warn Congress of insolvency at the GSEs], because if it wasn’t for you, I don’t think we’d be here in the first place. …There’s been nothing that indicated that’s wrong with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac has come up on its own… The question that then comes up is the competence that your agency has with reference to deciding and regulating these GSEs.
Lacy Clay: This hearing is about the political lynching of Franklin Raines.
Barney Frank: I don’t see anything in this report that raises safety and soundness problems.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
I realize things in Washington “work” by compromise; but I sure hope McCotter and those like him (on both sides of the aisle) don’t accept some watered-down compromise that is just the same thing with different paint on it.
Do you guys see an acceptable compromise?
Mufasa
It’s not even watered down. It’s boozed up. They didn’t cut anything. They just added in a bunch of shit that both sides want. Their compromise was to go from a bill worth 700B to a bill worth Almost 900B.
This is a complete fucking screw job and it’s going to pass. Since being medicated, I can’t remember a time when I was more pissed. I had to send the kids to bed early so they wouldn’t hear me swear at CSPAN.
I just paid my lifetime membership to the Libertarian party. MN is close but McCain is no longer getting my vote. I am so pissed I might even vote for Al Franken over Norm Coleman if Norm doesn’t pull his head out of his ass.
You didn’t really think it was going to get smaller did you?[/quote]
Hopefully, the longer this drags on > the more citizens learn about this bill > the greater chance alternative bills will have to get a hearing??
And I had just recently decided to vote McCain…This bill better not pass.
74 Aye
It passed the senate with flying colors