'Bailout' Voted Down

[quote]bdog527 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
bdog527 wrote:
It seems Congress has come to it’s senses and the bailout is going to be voted on again. I wonder who had knowledge of this 12 hours ago?

Uhhh… Not exactly there, Flash.

The bail out plan that was rejected by the House yesterday will be voted on by the Senate tomorrow (with a couple of tweaks). Then it will go back to the House if it passes the Senate. There is still very strong opposition to the plan in anything resembling its current form.

You really need to pay attention to the facts.

I’m aware of that. It will get passed through the House this time around. Watch.

If not, well, look out below.

[/quote]

I hope you’re wrong. If it does pass, it’s not because it’s the best thing for the nation’s economy, but rather because the “useful idiots” have been stoked into a kind of hysteria by the MSM.

Excerpt from American Spectator piece: http://spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13974


[i]The first component of a new rescue plan is to suspend the recently adopted mark-to-market accounting rules and go back to the accounting systems that were used for decades before. Mark-to-market accounting (also known as “fair value” accounting) means that companies must value their assets on their balance sheets based on the latest market indicators of the price that those assets could be sold for immediately.

Under such a rule, declining housing prices reduce the value of all mortgage-related securities, even the over 90% not suffering any default. Fire sales of these securities to raise new capital to meet regulatory requirements drives the market value of those securities down further. Credit agencies seeing declining capital margins downgrade the company’s credit ratings. That makes borrowing to meet capital requirements more difficult. Declining capital and credit ratings cause the company’s stock prices to decline.

This is ending in panic for major companies as lenders cut off all liquidity to firms caught in this accounting death spiral, and stockholders flee in fear that they will be wiped out in any government bailout or bankruptcy. William Isaac, Chairman of the FDIC in the 1980s under President Reagan, recently explained, “During the 1980s, our underlying economic problems were far more serious than the economic problems we’re facing this time around…The country’s 10 largest banks were loaded up with Third World debt that was valued in the markets at cents on the dollar. If we had marked those loans to market prices, virtually every one of them would have been insolvent”

Isaac continued, “This is contrary to everything we know about bank regulation. When there are temporary impairments of asset values, due to economic and marketplace events, regulators must give institutions an opportunity to survive the temporary impairment. Assets should not be marked to unrealistic fire sale prices. Regulators must evaluate the assets on the basis of their true economic value (a discounted cash flow analysis). If we had followed today’s approach during the 1980s, we would have nationalized all of the major banks in the country and thousands of additional banks and thrifts would have failed. I have little doubt that the country would have gone from a serious recession into a depression.” (Emphasis added.).

Similarly, University of Chicago Law Professor Richard Epstein recently wrote regarding mark to market accounting for today’s mortgage related securities, “Unfortunately, there is no working market to mark this paper down to. To meet their bond covenants and their capital requirements, these firms have to sell their paper at distress prices that don’t reflect the upbeat fact that the anticipated income streams from this paper might well keep the firm afloat.” Alex Pollock, former head of the Federal Home Loan Bank of Chicago, adds that when the economy is in the midst of a severe downturn, the use of mark-to-market accounting “reinforces the downward cycle of panic-falling prices-losses-illiquidity-credit contraction-more panic-further falling prices-greater reported losses-no active markets.”

Chicago economists Brian Wesbury and Robert Stein conclude:

“It is true that the root of this crisis is bad mortgage loans, but probably 70% of the real crisis that we face today is caused by mark-to-market accounting in an illiquid market. It is a real shame that there is so little discussion of this reality.”

A second component of a new rescue plan is to suspend all capital gains taxes for 5 years. This would boost the market values of residential and commercial real estate, as well as stock prices. It would draw in capital from around the world for domestic U.S. investment, shoring up the dollar as well. The revenue loss would be far less than the $700 billion Paulson is asking us to hand him to bail out his friends on Wall Street.

Thirdly, the Federal government already has sweeping authority in the FDIC, the Fed, and the Treasury to handle troubled banks and provide funds and liquidity to the market. In a breakthrough article in the Washington Post on September 27, Isaac explained how this can be used to resolve the credit crisis without the $700 billion bailout. In addition, Treasury could be authorized to conduct a new loan program for troubled financial institutions, lending them emergency funds to shore up capital at 2% over market.

Despite Paulson’s and Bush’s hysteria, this would be more than enough. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has been a leader in developing alternatives to the bailout. In a speech yesterday at the National Press Club, Gingrich rightly called on President Bush to fire Paulson, saying,

“A plan that relies on the former chairman of Goldman Sachs presiding over disbursing hundreds of billions of dollars to Wall Street is a terrible concept and inevitably will lead to crony capitalism and the appearance of - if not the actual existence of - corruption. The American people understand this and they don’t trust the Paulson plan. Congress should never have been faced with this as its only option to solve the financial crisis. It never should have been confronted with this bill.”

As Mary Anastasia O’Grady noted in the Wall Street Journal on Monday, the hysteria pedaled by Paulson and Bush to justify their $700 billion bailout is only spreading market panic worldwide. Even worse, it is decimating the McCain campaign and its electoral prospects. How is McCain supposed to have a prayer of winning when the incumbent Republican President and his Treasury Secretary are telling everyone that another Great Depression is just around the corner?

To save his campaign, and the entire Republican Party, as well as the American economy, McCain needs to take command. By Thursday, he needs to have organized the House, and Senate, Republicans, behind an alternative rescue plan as described above, without the $700 billion Wall Street bailout. He then needs to go on the offensive against House and Senate Democrats telling them they need to act now or be held responsible for the consequences. The key is that the American people, who hate the bailout, with their feelings about George Bush not too far behind, would rally behind him. That surge of public support would drive Democrats to pass the new, no bailout plan.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Here’s a Republican Rep. from Michigan on the floor yesterday. A spot-on speech:

[/quote]

The Honorable McCotter hit a grand slam.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
Here’s a Republican Rep. from Michigan on the floor yesterday. A spot-on speech:

The Honorable McCotter hit a grand slam.[/quote]

I.N.T.E.G.R.I.T.Y

Hopefully it’s catching.

That was outstanding.

Mufasa

Awesome video, thanks

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20081001/us_time/whyarentamericansbuyingthebailout

Wait, what?

For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:

Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Excerpt from American Spectator piece: http://spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13974


[i]The first component of a new rescue plan is to suspend the recently adopted mark-to-market accounting rules and go back to the accounting systems that were used for decades before. Mark-to-market accounting (also known as “fair value” accounting) means that companies must value their assets on their balance sheets based on the latest market indicators of the price that those assets could be sold for immediately.

Under such a rule, declining housing prices reduce the value of all mortgage-related securities, even the over 90% not suffering any default. Fire sales of these securities to raise new capital to meet regulatory requirements drives the market value of those securities down further. Credit agencies seeing declining capital margins downgrade the company’s credit ratings. That makes borrowing to meet capital requirements more difficult. Declining capital and credit ratings cause the company’s stock prices to decline.

This is ending in panic for major companies as lenders cut off all liquidity to firms caught in this accounting death spiral, and stockholders flee in fear that they will be wiped out in any government bailout or bankruptcy. William Isaac, Chairman of the FDIC in the 1980s under President Reagan, recently explained, “During the 1980s, our underlying economic problems were far more serious than the economic problems we’re facing this time around…The country’s 10 largest banks were loaded up with Third World debt that was valued in the markets at cents on the dollar. If we had marked those loans to market prices, virtually every one of them would have been insolvent”

Isaac continued, “This is contrary to everything we know about bank regulation. When there are temporary impairments of asset values, due to economic and marketplace events, regulators must give institutions an opportunity to survive the temporary impairment. Assets should not be marked to unrealistic fire sale prices. Regulators must evaluate the assets on the basis of their true economic value (a discounted cash flow analysis). If we had followed today’s approach during the 1980s, we would have nationalized all of the major banks in the country and thousands of additional banks and thrifts would have failed. I have little doubt that the country would have gone from a serious recession into a depression.” (Emphasis added.).

Similarly, University of Chicago Law Professor Richard Epstein recently wrote regarding mark to market accounting for today’s mortgage related securities, “Unfortunately, there is no working market to mark this paper down to. To meet their bond covenants and their capital requirements, these firms have to sell their paper at distress prices that don’t reflect the upbeat fact that the anticipated income streams from this paper might well keep the firm afloat.” Alex Pollock, former head of the Federal Home Loan Bank of Chicago, adds that when the economy is in the midst of a severe downturn, the use of mark-to-market accounting “reinforces the downward cycle of panic-falling prices-losses-illiquidity-credit contraction-more panic-further falling prices-greater reported losses-no active markets.”

Chicago economists Brian Wesbury and Robert Stein conclude:

“It is true that the root of this crisis is bad mortgage loans, but probably 70% of the real crisis that we face today is caused by mark-to-market accounting in an illiquid market. It is a real shame that there is so little discussion of this reality.”

A second component of a new rescue plan is to suspend all capital gains taxes for 5 years. This would boost the market values of residential and commercial real estate, as well as stock prices. It would draw in capital from around the world for domestic U.S. investment, shoring up the dollar as well. The revenue loss would be far less than the $700 billion Paulson is asking us to hand him to bail out his friends on Wall Street.

Thirdly, the Federal government already has sweeping authority in the FDIC, the Fed, and the Treasury to handle troubled banks and provide funds and liquidity to the market. In a breakthrough article in the Washington Post on September 27, Isaac explained how this can be used to resolve the credit crisis without the $700 billion bailout. In addition, Treasury could be authorized to conduct a new loan program for troubled financial institutions, lending them emergency funds to shore up capital at 2% over market.

Despite Paulson’s and Bush’s hysteria, this would be more than enough. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has been a leader in developing alternatives to the bailout. In a speech yesterday at the National Press Club, Gingrich rightly called on President Bush to fire Paulson, saying,

“A plan that relies on the former chairman of Goldman Sachs presiding over disbursing hundreds of billions of dollars to Wall Street is a terrible concept and inevitably will lead to crony capitalism and the appearance of - if not the actual existence of - corruption. The American people understand this and they don’t trust the Paulson plan. Congress should never have been faced with this as its only option to solve the financial crisis. It never should have been confronted with this bill.”

As Mary Anastasia O’Grady noted in the Wall Street Journal on Monday, the hysteria pedaled by Paulson and Bush to justify their $700 billion bailout is only spreading market panic worldwide. Even worse, it is decimating the McCain campaign and its electoral prospects. How is McCain supposed to have a prayer of winning when the incumbent Republican President and his Treasury Secretary are telling everyone that another Great Depression is just around the corner?

To save his campaign, and the entire Republican Party, as well as the American economy, McCain needs to take command. By Thursday, he needs to have organized the House, and Senate, Republicans, behind an alternative rescue plan as described above, without the $700 billion Wall Street bailout. He then needs to go on the offensive against House and Senate Democrats telling them they need to act now or be held responsible for the consequences. The key is that the American people, who hate the bailout, with their feelings about George Bush not too far behind, would rally behind him. That surge of public support would drive Democrats to pass the new, no bailout plan. [/quote]

Good article. I really like Brian Wesbury

IMHO if the bailout bill goes back to the house it will receive LESS votes than before. I cannot fathom a Congressman who voted “No” reversing that vote in light of the alternatives that are coming out that do not put as much of the publics money at risk. There are obviously technical fixes (mark to market, increase FDIC insurance)that are available right now that can be implemented to put liquidity back into the market.

The only thing Congress should do right now is suspend capital gains taxes as RJ posted in the Dave Ramsey article link on another thread.

This $700 Billion bailout has become pure hysteria

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:

Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.[/quote]

I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.

[quote]Ren wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:

Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.

I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.[/quote]

Oh…it’s quite a bit worse than just not regulating. They regulated us into this mess. Look no further than SOX and CRA.

House Conservatives Introduce �??Free Market�?? Substitute for Bailout
Wednesday, October 01, 2008
By Josiah Ryan, Staff Writer

(CNSNews.com) - Following the defeat of the $700-billion bailout package on Monday, Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-Texas), chairman of the Republican Study Committee (RSC), introduced a bill that he said relies on the free market rather than the federal government to solve the nation�??s financial problems.

Instead of mandating that the U.S. Treasury purchase up to $700 billion in teetering mortgages and mortgage-backed securities, as the plan backed by the Bush administration and congressional leadership mandated, the RSC alternative would try to restore confidence in the mortgage market by insuring all such investments at 100 percent of their value.

Under the plan, mortgages that Treasury officials deemed to be risky would be insured at a higher premium than mortgages considered stable. The mortgages would be insured by the federal government, i.e., tax dollars. Thus, the plan is not pure free market but is more reasonable than an outright federal purchase of the mortgages with tax dollars, suggested Hensarling.

�??In order to fundamentally deal with the crisis, some part of the full faith and credit of the government will have to be behind it [the solution],�?? Hensarling told CNSNews.com, and this would shore-up confidence in the mortgage and mortgage-backed securities markets. �??But Wall Street ought to be paying for that, and we ought to be limiting taxpayer exposure.�??

The plan also includes provisions important to Democrats that had been a part of the Bush plan, such as a provision that would severely limit the size of the �??golden parachute�?? an executive, whose failing companies opted into the government�??s insurance plan, could receive and ensuring that financial institutions participating in the program would have to disclose more about their mortgage-asset holdings.

Hensarling said at a press conference Monday that under ordinary circumstances conservatives would not consider granting the federal government such powers of intervention, but in these �??extraordinary times�?? his caucus realizes that compromise is necessary.

�??We come here ready to swallow hard, but we can�??t swallow everything,�?? said Hensarling. �??We do not feel that models such as loans secured by assets and the insurance model received the attention they were due. On a normal day, a conservative would run for the exits from either of those plans, but these are extraordinary times.�??

However, the bill also includes provisions that appeal to free-market conservatives, including the gradual privatization of federal lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; regulations barring Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE�??s) from engaging in risky investments; and temporary tax cuts and regulatory relief for businesses.

A press release from the RSC about the alternative plan states that it will allow Wall Street to work its way out of the financial crisis rather than cause it to depend upon the American workers�?? tax dollars.

�??We believe that we can help Wall Street work out of this crisis, not force the taxpayers into a bailout,�?? said the RSC. �??We believe that voluntary private capital, not involuntary taxpayer capital, will help the system recover.�??

�??House conservatives believe that any model that essentially has taxpayers bailing out Wall Street is fundamentally flawed,�?? said Hensarling at the press conference.

Sources on Capitol Hill told CNSNews.com that at least five other conservatives in the House, including Reps. Bill Sali (R-Idaho), Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), Joe Barton (R-Texas), John Shadegg (R-Ariz.), and Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) are also developing alternative plans to deal with the mortgage crisis.

[quote]Ren wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:

Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.

I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.[/quote]

I fully agree with you on this one. However, in the interest of keeping with the “pesky facts”, I feel a need to point something out. The events in this link state that Bush had been warning everyone about this since he took office in 2001. According to the link, he repeatedly told Congress aobut this but they didn’t pay any attention to him and did nothing. What was not pointed out was that from 2001 to 2006 the Republicans held the majority of both houses. By the fallout came, the Democrats had just taken over with the slim majority they have now. So the entire time Bush is yelling “the sky is falling”, his own party was ignoring him. This is further evidence that this is a bipartisan fuck up and not just the dems fault. Many people on here like to try to say that it is one party or the others fault. Let’s be honest, they are all to blame.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=36627

It’s everyone’s fault who thought government should intercede to put risky people into houses.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Ren wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:

Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.

I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.

I fully agree with you on this one. However, in the interest of keeping with the “pesky facts”, I feel a need to point something out. The events in this link state that Bush had been warning everyone about this since he took office in 2001. According to the link, he repeatedly told Congress aobut this but they didn’t pay any attention to him and did nothing. What was not pointed out was that from 2001 to 2006 the Republicans held the majority of both houses. By the fallout came, the Democrats had just taken over with the slim majority they have now. So the entire time Bush is yelling “the sky is falling”, his own party was ignoring him. This is further evidence that this is a bipartisan fuck up and not just the dems fault. Many people on here like to try to say that it is one party or the others fault. Let’s be honest, they are all to blame.[/quote]

Nope. You still have to look at who sat on the relavent commities. Have you heard of a philibuster? Might want to look into this a bit more.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Ren wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:

Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.

I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.

I fully agree with you on this one. However, in the interest of keeping with the “pesky facts”, I feel a need to point something out. The events in this link state that Bush had been warning everyone about this since he took office in 2001. According to the link, he repeatedly told Congress aobut this but they didn’t pay any attention to him and did nothing. What was not pointed out was that from 2001 to 2006 the Republicans held the majority of both houses. By the fallout came, the Democrats had just taken over with the slim majority they have now. So the entire time Bush is yelling “the sky is falling”, his own party was ignoring him. This is further evidence that this is a bipartisan fuck up and not just the dems fault. Many people on here like to try to say that it is one party or the others fault. Let’s be honest, they are all to blame.[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Ren wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
For all of you who insist this is Bush’s fault, please read this:

Please, don’t hate me for introducing those pesky ‘facts’ into the thread.

I blame the bankers for the most part. Followed by everyone in the government who took their money and voted to keep their shady dealings legal and unregulated.

I fully agree with you on this one. However, in the interest of keeping with the “pesky facts”, I feel a need to point something out. The events in this link state that Bush had been warning everyone about this since he took office in 2001. According to the link, he repeatedly told Congress aobut this but they didn’t pay any attention to him and did nothing. What was not pointed out was that from 2001 to 2006 the Republicans held the majority of both houses. By the fallout came, the Democrats had just taken over with the slim majority they have now. So the entire time Bush is yelling “the sky is falling”, his own party was ignoring him. This is further evidence that this is a bipartisan fuck up and not just the dems fault. Many people on here like to try to say that it is one party or the others fault. Let’s be honest, they are all to blame.[/quote]

You are half right. After the elections of 2002 - the balance of power in the Senate was split 50/50. Trent Lott decided to be a huge pussy and have the committee chairmanships split between dems and republicans.

So although on paper it may appear the the republicans had control for 5 years - they only really had true control from for about 2.

But that is neither here nor there - the blame has come down on Bush. And it is quite evident that he did far more than nothing in an attempt to gain control of F/F.

The CRA should be repealed, and ACORN should be eliminated immediately.

This goes back to what I was saying on another thread: the Republicans just like to be losers. What do you do with a football coach who continually loses? You fire him. That’s what happened to the “Stupid Party.”

This is another thing I don’t get. If the $148,000 donation to one of the Dems (I forget which) from Fannie Mae was enough to get his support, surely players in the other financial houses could have spent a little more in “venture capital” to achieve the opposite effect? I mean, Cold Cash Jefferson took $90,000 from some lobbyist. Why couldn’t the banking industry put that amount or more into “lobbying” against the CRA? It doesn’t make sense to me unless you factor in the greed induced by packaging up those bad loans and selling them overseas.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

But that is neither here nor there - the blame has come down on Bush. And it is quite evident that he did far more than nothing in an attempt to gain control of F/F.
[/quote]

I wasn’t implying that Bush doesn’t bear burden in all this. However, it is not solely of his doing as “Madame Speaker” would have us believe-- and I’m not much of a Bush fan.