[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If you think about how this could help the economy, you have money made in America staying in America. Less payouts for entitlements, less stress on city/state infrastructures, fewer schools needing to be built, I am talking about more money being recycled back into the economy. We need more wealth makers, not wealth takers.
Utah, Colorado, and Oklahoma have shown interest in adding the same law.[/quote]
Better wages = less welfare and social programs
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If you think about how this could help the economy, you have money made in America staying in America. Less payouts for entitlements, less stress on city/state infrastructures, fewer schools needing to be built, I am talking about more money being recycled back into the economy. We need more wealth makers, not wealth takers.
Utah, Colorado, and Oklahoma have shown interest in adding the same law.[/quote]
Better wages = less welfare and social programs [/quote]
You know the best thing about equations?!?!?!?!
They work BOTH ways!!!
less welfare and social programs = Better wages
[quote]formerfatboy wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If you think about how this could help the economy, you have money made in America staying in America. Less payouts for entitlements, less stress on city/state infrastructures, fewer schools needing to be built, I am talking about more money being recycled back into the economy. We need more wealth makers, not wealth takers.
Utah, Colorado, and Oklahoma have shown interest in adding the same law.[/quote]
Better wages = less welfare and social programs [/quote]
You know the best thing about equations?!?!?!?!
They work BOTH ways!!!
less welfare and social programs = Better wages[/quote]
Obama disagrees.
Please do NOT think I agree with a single thing Obama has done with the US, he has done nothing but spend money and expect future generations to pick up the tab. I know the deficit will never disappear in my life time!! I was bringing the point to the table that there are jobs which normal white kid won’t do. The dairy is an incredibly massive market and they have been having the debate of Joe vs. Jose for quite a while.
As for raising the price of milk, well everything would have to jump in price. From cheese to sour cream, all of it, any dairy product! People will stop drinking milk if the price climbs. That is not worth the risk of loosing that much money and the industry does not want to take the hit, ie in the price of milk. The dairy market has been hurting for a number of years, loosing a market share is NOT really an option, specifically with a disposable material.
In regards to hiring more workers. Cows like familiar situations. When things change frequently they give less milk volume, of a lower quality (lower fat). If there was a revolving door of people who were always different and just one guy decided to be mean to the cows on one single day, the volume of milk would be lower for quite a while. Charging more for milk has serious drawbacks. The matter is a whole lot more than simple economics. Don’t forget we are talking about a disposable material.
The dairy is just one example, how about the pumping of honey buckets? In southern Idaho I only witnessed Mexican’s doing the work. I have done that job for a few years while I went to college. The job was not really that bad, it was actually the contractors that I wanted to dump a load of shit into the cab of their trucks and then call the EPA. Yet I had to be the more mature guy and walk away. Oh I hated the job, yet it was a job and I only had to do the work one day of the week.
Again, my point is there are jobs which American’s believe they are ‘above’ and they don’t want to be doing a job they do not enjoy. The dairy industry is very tedious and pretty boring. How about sandblasting? Now that defined tedious and mutinous! Immigrants will do the work because it is a JOB, no matter the quality. After working for a number of years a person can pick and choose the work they want to do. IME you have to be doing the boring/shitty jobs that no one wants, long before you can do a job that YOU want.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Damn you get it:)
[/quote]
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
It says in the bill, something like police officers may not use race as the only means to ask for ID, there has to be something else suspicious. We all know that’s bullshit: hell, if I was a cop in AZ and saw some Mexican with a shitty car that barely spoke English, I’d likely ask for his ID.[/quote]
This is what gripes me about this stuff. It’s not like the Poles or French are sneaking into this country en masse. so to me profiling makes sense and is necessary.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
As a guy on the other side of the country, to the north, there are a high number of illegal immigrants in ID. They perform the jobs that Americans believe they don’t have to do. A major example for me is in the dairy industry. The workers have long days in a small dairy and the length of time only goes up as the size increases. Work as a milker is extremely repetitive and tedious.
Few American will work 2 five hour shifts with one starting at 5 in the morning and the other starting at 5 in the evening. Oh the part I didn’t mention, larger dairies milk 3 times a day! The second fact, cows produce milk 7 days a week, 365 days a year without a single day off. Workers get up at the butt crack of dawn, work for a few hours, go to a long lunch and come back in the evening for another 5 hours. Sounds like a bitch huh?
Americans want quite a bit of money for that kind of work. I have yet to even talk about the function of the farm, growing the food for the cows, cleaning pens as the cows are milked, etc., God the dairy is an incredible challenge!! The price of milk in the store has been around two and a half dollars since I can remember. Yet the price of unprocessed milk is falling through the floor. IMO Americans want to pick and choose the job they want and all while getting paid an exorbitant amount of money for a job that just about anyone can do. Yet just about anyone will not do the work in a dairy because of the tedious nature of the task.
A dairyman will hire another American any day of the week, if they will do the same job as the immigrant for the same price. A dairy is more about the people than the cows. The dairy is transforming is ways similar to other businesses. When large American businesses go away, I believe the true America comes back. How many small Mom and Pop businessâ?? have closed because of Walmart alone? I refuse to shop there for that reason alone, others just reinforce my belief. And yet how many people complain about immigrants yet still shop at stores similar to Wally World?
Last point I bring to the table, wasnâ??t this country founded on immigrants?
[/quote]
So dairy farmers will have to pay more for labor; and, the price of milk will go up.
To argue that the industry needs to be “subsidized” by nearly free labor is exactly what pro-slavery voices were arguing in 19th Cent. America.
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
As a guy on the other side of the country, to the north, there are a high number of illegal immigrants in ID. They perform the jobs that Americans believe they don’t have to do. A major example for me is in the dairy industry. The workers have long days in a small dairy and the length of time only goes up as the size increases. Work as a milker is extremely repetitive and tedious.
Few American will work 2 five hour shifts with one starting at 5 in the morning and the other starting at 5 in the evening. Oh the part I didn’t mention, larger dairies milk 3 times a day! The second fact, cows produce milk 7 days a week, 365 days a year without a single day off. Workers get up at the butt crack of dawn, work for a few hours, go to a long lunch and come back in the evening for another 5 hours. Sounds like a bitch huh?
Americans want quite a bit of money for that kind of work. I have yet to even talk about the function of the farm, growing the food for the cows, cleaning pens as the cows are milked, etc., God the dairy is an incredible challenge!! The price of milk in the store has been around two and a half dollars since I can remember. Yet the price of unprocessed milk is falling through the floor. IMO Americans want to pick and choose the job they want and all while getting paid an exorbitant amount of money for a job that just about anyone can do. Yet just about anyone will not do the work in a dairy because of the tedious nature of the task.
A dairyman will hire another American any day of the week, if they will do the same job as the immigrant for the same price. A dairy is more about the people than the cows. The dairy is transforming is ways similar to other businesses. When large American businesses go away, I believe the true America comes back. How many small Mom and Pop business�¢?? have closed because of Walmart alone? I refuse to shop there for that reason alone, others just reinforce my belief. And yet how many people complain about immigrants yet still shop at stores similar to Wally World?
Last point I bring to the table, wasn�¢??t this country founded on immigrants?
[/quote]
So dairy farmers will have to pay more for labor; and, the price of milk will go up.
To argue that the industry needs to be “subsidized” by nearly free labor is exactly what pro-slavery voices were arguing in 19th Cent. America.
[/quote]
Also I will point out that Dairy is being automated as we speak.
http://www.dairyextension.com.au/edit/Conference/AUTOMATED%20DAIRY%20FARMING.PDF
Cheap labor is almost always done away with by technology, which is what americans are good at, so in say another 10 or 20 years, Most of the menial tasks done by illegals on a farm, are going to be done by a machine, and the farms will revert back to just a small family operating it on thier own. This then of course creates a lot of illegals whith no work to do and thats when the crime will really rise.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Cheap labor is almost always done away with by technology, which is what americans are good at, so in say another 10 or 20 years, Most of the menial tasks done by illegals on a farm, are going to be done by a machine, and the farms will revert back to just a small family operating it on thier own. This then of course creates a lot of illegals whith no work to do and thats when the crime will really rise.
V[/quote]
Indeed, our neighbor had automatic milking 20 years ago. Doing it manually is just waste of workforce.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Please do NOT think I agree with a single thing Obama has done with the US, he has done nothing but spend money and expect future generations to pick up the tab. I know the deficit will never disappear in my life time!! I was bringing the point to the table that there are jobs which normal white kid won’t do. The dairy is an incredibly massive market and they have been having the debate of Joe vs. Jose for quite a while.
As for raising the price of milk, well everything would have to jump in price. From cheese to sour cream, all of it, any dairy product! People will stop drinking milk if the price climbs. That is not worth the risk of loosing that much money and the industry does not want to take the hit, ie in the price of milk. The dairy market has been hurting for a number of years, loosing a market share is NOT really an option, specifically with a disposable material.
In regards to hiring more workers. Cows like familiar situations. When things change frequently they give less milk volume, of a lower quality (lower fat). If there was a revolving door of people who were always different and just one guy decided to be mean to the cows on one single day, the volume of milk would be lower for quite a while. Charging more for milk has serious drawbacks. The matter is a whole lot more than simple economics. Don’t forget we are talking about a disposable material.
The dairy is just one example, how about the pumping of honey buckets? In southern Idaho I only witnessed Mexican’s doing the work. I have done that job for a few years while I went to college. The job was not really that bad, it was actually the contractors that I wanted to dump a load of shit into the cab of their trucks and then call the EPA. Yet I had to be the more mature guy and walk away. Oh I hated the job, yet it was a job and I only had to do the work one day of the week.
Again, my point is there are jobs which American’s believe they are ‘above’ and they don’t want to be doing a job they do not enjoy. The dairy industry is very tedious and pretty boring. How about sandblasting? Now that defined tedious and mutinous! Immigrants will do the work because it is a JOB, no matter the quality. After working for a number of years a person can pick and choose the work they want to do. IME you have to be doing the boring/shitty jobs that no one wants, long before you can do a job that YOU want.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Damn you get it:)
[/quote]
[/quote]
I wholly reject the notion that the Mexicans are doing the jobs Americans won’t do…That hubris and bullshit. I have done some of the dag-nastiest work a person can do in my life time. If circumstances dictate I would do them again and be thankful for it. Well, not the cleaning of diarrhea, can’t say I am ever thankful to do that…But I would do it.
The whole problem is that these people are hopping the fence to do labor cheaper than the law permits if that goes away, there will be no need to hire them.
Here’s the problem with amnesty. It makes the Mexicans labor no cheaper than anybody else, so they won’t be hired. So what happens to these folks? They go on welfare. Which is vastly superior to what they have at home. So we end up with millions of wards of state.
Two words: FUCK THAT!
I support harsh penalties for people who hire illegals and firm but merciful border security. We can provide them means to immigrate from the comfort of their own country.
I have a feeling that if we pushed a button and made illegal slave labor disappear there would be no problem finding people to do the work. Especially now. They would need to be paid market wages though and all that that would mean. Artificially low labor costs cannot be helpful to our unemployment problem speaking of the market.
I also have done some unbelievably nasty and labor intensive work in my life along with many others I’ve known as well. This idea that there are no Americans that will do an honest day’s lousy work for an honest day’s decent wage is pure propaganda.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I have a feeling that if we pushed a button and made illegal slave labor disappear there would be no problem finding people to do the work. Especially now. They would need to be paid market wages though and all that that would mean. Artificially low labor costs cannot be helpful to our unemployment problem speaking of the market.
I also have done some unbelievably nasty and labor intensive work in my life along with many others I’ve known as well. This idea that there are no Americans that will do an honest day’s lousy work for an honest day’s decent wage is pure propaganda.[/quote]
What’s funny is that they reinforce the poor americans as lazy stereotype when they use this line. Mabye they are. Or, maybe they’re smart enough to take advantage of a good thing. Why compete with labor that’s willing to pack into one apartment like sardines (since they have no plans for permanent residence), avoids expenses like motor vehicle insurance and child support, can’t be found to pay various bills (like ER bills), and therefore, will work for less than anyone else. Sometimes, for less than mininum wage!
Why compete with that instead of going down to the unemployment and welfare offices? Like Pat mentioned, watch what would happen with amnesty. These folks would jump right onto entitlment roles, like everybody else. And, a swarm of new illegals would fill those jobs while waiting for the next round of amnesty.
Everytime I hear that line about “jobs American’s won’t do” it strikes me as funny as hell that it is always some well paid leftist talking head that has never actually had to work for a living. All of us normal joes out here bust our asses off everyday doing hard work in nasty conditions. There’s no such thing as a job an American won’t do - but there are jobs leftists elites won’t do - be honest you socialists hypocrites!!
Amnesty did nothing but bring more illegals here. It sends the message of, “just keep trying to get here, because once you get here, you hit the jackpot.” I really don’t know why there is such an outcry. Someone tell me one country (other than the US) who doesn’t deport those in their country illegally. Shit, some countries don’t even let you argue your side of the story, they throw you on the first bus, plane, or boat going the fuck out of the country.
You have kids, you are sick, you have lived there for X amount of years, they don’t care. In my native Italy, they will deport you off the street, from a doctor’s office, basically when you have any contact with a government agency. What happened? A 96% reduction in illegals. People whining about carrying papers, when do you not have “papers” on you? You buy gas or food, you have your drivers license and credit card with you, that is good enough for the law.
I saw a story this morning on the news about this new law, where they had a debate with an AZ cop and an immigration attorney. The cop tells a story about how he pulled over a car for speeding, and in the back seat of a car were 9 people. The cop performs a search, he finds 2 more people hiding in the trunk. The immigration attorney argues to the cop, “How is that probably cause?” Fucking facepalm.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Amnesty did nothing but bring more illegals here. It sends the message of, “just keep trying to get here, because once you get here, you hit the jackpot.” I really don’t know why there is such an outcry. Someone tell me one country (other than the US) who doesn’t deport those in their country illegally. Shit, some countries don’t even let you argue your side of the story, they throw you on the first bus, plane, or boat going the fuck out of the country.
You have kids, you are sick, you have lived there for X amount of years, they don’t care. In my native Italy, they will deport you off the street, from a doctor’s office, basically when you have any contact with a government agency. What happened? A 96% reduction in illegals. People whining about carrying papers, when do you not have “papers” on you? You buy gas or food, you have your drivers license and credit card with you, that is good enough for the law.
I saw a story this morning on the news about this new law, where they had a debate with an AZ cop and an immigration attorney. The cop tells a story about how he pulled over a car for speeding, and in the back seat of a car were 9 people. The cop performs a search, he finds 2 more people hiding in the trunk. The immigration attorney argues to the cop, “How is that probably cause?” Fucking facepalm. [/quote]
Yes amnesty is a disaster, it means “We’ll pay you more in welfare than you could ever make working.”
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Amnesty did nothing but bring more illegals here. It sends the message of, “just keep trying to get here, because once you get here, you hit the jackpot.” I really don’t know why there is such an outcry. Someone tell me one country (other than the US) who doesn’t deport those in their country illegally. Shit, some countries don’t even let you argue your side of the story, they throw you on the first bus, plane, or boat going the fuck out of the country.
You have kids, you are sick, you have lived there for X amount of years, they don’t care. In my native Italy, they will deport you off the street, from a doctor’s office, basically when you have any contact with a government agency. What happened? A 96% reduction in illegals. People whining about carrying papers, when do you not have “papers” on you? You buy gas or food, you have your drivers license and credit card with you, that is good enough for the law.
I saw a story this morning on the news about this new law, where they had a debate with an AZ cop and an immigration attorney. The cop tells a story about how he pulled over a car for speeding, and in the back seat of a car were 9 people. The cop performs a search, he finds 2 more people hiding in the trunk. The immigration attorney argues to the cop, “How is that probably cause?” Fucking facepalm. [/quote]
They were going to the drive-in movie. You pay for the car and not the people in the car. Oh yea the closest drive-in theatre is 500 miles to the North.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Amnesty did nothing but bring more illegals here. It sends the message of, “just keep trying to get here, because once you get here, you hit the jackpot.” I really don’t know why there is such an outcry. Someone tell me one country (other than the US) who doesn’t deport those in their country illegally. Shit, some countries don’t even let you argue your side of the story, they throw you on the first bus, plane, or boat going the fuck out of the country.
You have kids, you are sick, you have lived there for X amount of years, they don’t care. In my native Italy, they will deport you off the street, from a doctor’s office, basically when you have any contact with a government agency. What happened? A 96% reduction in illegals. People whining about carrying papers, when do you not have “papers” on you? You buy gas or food, you have your drivers license and credit card with you, that is good enough for the law.
I saw a story this morning on the news about this new law, where they had a debate with an AZ cop and an immigration attorney. The cop tells a story about how he pulled over a car for speeding, and in the back seat of a car were 9 people. The cop performs a search, he finds 2 more people hiding in the trunk. The immigration attorney argues to the cop, “How is that probably cause?” Fucking facepalm. [/quote]
They were going to the drive-in movie. You pay for the car and not the people in the car. Oh yea the closest drive-in theatre is 500 miles to the North.[/quote]
Lol. Man, what people will do to cut some costs!
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]formerfatboy wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If you think about how this could help the economy, you have money made in America staying in America. Less payouts for entitlements, less stress on city/state infrastructures, fewer schools needing to be built, I am talking about more money being recycled back into the economy. We need more wealth makers, not wealth takers.
Utah, Colorado, and Oklahoma have shown interest in adding the same law.[/quote]
Better wages = less welfare and social programs [/quote]
You know the best thing about equations?!?!?!?!
They work BOTH ways!!!
less welfare and social programs = Better wages[/quote]
Obama disagrees. [/quote]
I disagree with Obama , if nothing else this should force America to do something on immigration
I see this and the legalization of Marijuana in Cali, forcing the Feds. to do something that has been comming for a long time
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I see this and the legalization of Marijuana in Cali, forcing the Feds. to do something that has been comming for a long time [/quote]
Agreed, however we here in CA need to prepare for the outflow of the illegals into CA from AZ. No way CA ever does this this type of enforcement anytime soon.
Unfortuneately, the only downside I can see is that CA will now get overrun even worse, until we have finally had enough BS to create our own laws for enforcement, but our Congressional reps are in the pocket for immigration in masses for the vote.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Everytime I hear that line about “jobs American’s won’t do” it strikes me as funny as hell that it is always some well paid leftist talking head [/quote]
Absolutely. We need to also get our soft, entiltlement thinking teenagers out and back in the damn workforce too.