[quote]Rat Poison wrote:
the person writing the article does not add photo’s to it [/quote]
News to me, thanks for clearing that up!
Also, why would authors hire models who they’ve never (or barely) trained to demonstrate exercises in their books?
I think it’s misleading.
When people flip the pages and see the model doing the exercises most assume he followed the program to some extent to achieve his physique. Or at the very least the program is intended to bring you closer to that final goal.
[quote]anonym wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Just to give you a few examples besides Bartl and Gus 
Now THOSE are what I call physiques! Oscar looks absolutely insane.
Though, for what it’s worth, you can count yourself one of the authors on this site no one held in question when clicking on this thread…in regards to your build or those of your clients (as I know you’ve posted about a few of them before).[/quote]
x2.
I also don’t ever recall CT bashing BB’ers, or claiming that they trained wrong to build big muscles either.
Might not align with the BBing theme here but i know some O-lift coaches that never were competitive and look insanely nonathletic that can still get those totals up on schedule.
I personally prefer my national level competitor coach. The guy knows what a hard session is and keeps me on my toes like a midget at a urinal when it comes to completing hard sessions. besides programming and technical coaching, getting you through hard ME days is worth the money paid. And id say some of that skill comes from time under the iron or at least time at sport.
So there you go, I’ve managed to take no sides at all. Talk about voting Nader. What a fence-sitting pinko i am.
In other news: Elington Darden posts all kinds of pics of his athletes and gets soaked with the ass-juice cannon all day around here. Then again most of his athletes make me feel huge.
-chris
Good Lord, Oscar is 350 in off season at 6’2?!? Holy shit. I’m 6’2 also, that really puts things in perspective.
Unfortunately most people don’t appreciate the degree to which genetic factors limit physique development. There is very little relationship between the quality of one’s physique and his level of training knowledge.
In many cases it is actually an inverse relationship because genetically gifted individuals can easily become deluded into believing that everything they do is correct. Paul Chek has a great physique off of the dumbest training I’ve ever seen.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
Unfortunately most people don’t appreciate the degree to which genetic factors limit physique development. There is very little relationship between the quality of one’s physique and his level of training knowledge.
In many cases it is actually an inverse relationship because genetically gifted individuals can easily become deluded into believing that everything they do is correct. Paul Chek has a great physique off of the dumbest training I’ve ever seen.[/quote]
If you have the weakest genetic potential for this, you should find a new hobby.
It makes no sense to to approach this as if everyone is on the shallow end of the gene pool. Those at that end won’t EVER be making much progress to being with.
[quote]Protoculture wrote:
Also, why would authors hire models who they’ve never (or barely) trained to demonstrate exercises in their books?
I think it’s misleading.
[/quote]
That isn’t what gets me. What gets to me is using those models…and then writing articles bashing the guys who want to look just like that.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
Unfortunately most people don’t appreciate the degree to which genetic factors limit physique development. There is very little relationship between the quality of one’s physique and his level of training knowledge.
In many cases it is actually an inverse relationship because genetically gifted individuals can easily become deluded into believing that everything they do is correct. Paul Chek has a great physique off of the dumbest training I’ve ever seen.[/quote]
See, I agree, and I disagree. You’re right, genetic winners can easily become deluded into thinking everything they do is right. And Chek’s training is helmet child quality.
But at the same time I tend to think that almost no one who blames genetics for their physique has EVER even come semi-close to hitting the genetic wall–they’re just looking for excuses. I firmly and resolutely believe that genetics do not limit nearly as much as people would like to believe. I only know of one person I can think of that has a probable genetic problem, and even that I find unlikely.
I KNOW I have shit genetics. But its funny that I’ve managed to make better progress than 98% of the people out there because I just put my nose to the grindstone for years on end and decided I was going to use it as motivation instead of an excuse. As someone very large once said “the harder I work, the better my genetics get”. I believe that.
As a side note–who is that in your avatar?? I recognize it, but I can’t for the life of me remember his name.
I don’t get why people are looking for every last bit of information like its gonna make a helluva big difference, like they must read every single article in the internet so they fully understand training. Is it so hard to choose a template such as HSS-100, AGVT or DC, which have built muscle for years time and time again.
YOU DONT NEED TO USE EVERY SINGLE TECHNIQUE OUT THERE, TRAINING WITH CONSISTENCY, EFFORT AND PROGRESSION IS KEY. Trying to listen to every single author out there is imposible and will get you nowhere. Worrying about authors physique is worthless when you should rule over your training decisions. The foundation for training is out there for decades and is pretty clear: volume, load, progression
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you have the weakest genetic potential for this, you should find a new hobby.
It makes no sense to to approach this as if everyone is on the shallow end of the gene pool. Those at that end won’t EVER be making much progress to being with.[/quote]
I agree that people with shit potential shouldn’t enter the competitive arena, try to create the appearance of being serious bodybuilders, or organize their lives around bodybuilding.
But I’m a firm believer that every man should train to make his mucles as big and as strong as possible simply as a means of maximizing his masculinity. It’s guys with shit genetics who need bodybuilding the most.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Poliquin is big but he exaggerates more shit than any other author, so whats it worth? 20 grams of fish oil = 60 pounds of LBM and eggs from the D.R. make you lose fat and gain muscle overnight.[/quote]
LoL. I think it was avocados from the D.R., but this just might be the 1 case where I agree with you.
[quote]belligerent wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If you have the weakest genetic potential for this, you should find a new hobby.
It makes no sense to to approach this as if everyone is on the shallow end of the gene pool. Those at that end won’t EVER be making much progress to being with.
I agree that people with shit potential shouldn’t enter the competitive arena, try to create the appearance of being serious bodybuilders, or organize their lives around bodybuilding.
But I’m a firm believer that every man should train to make his mucles as big and as strong as possible simply as a means of maximizing his masculinity. It’s guys with shit genetics who need bodybuilding the most.[/quote]
That isn’t what I meant. The number of guys out there with genetics so shitty that they need to do something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than what built size for most people should be so small as to not need major focus on this website.
Instead, nearly every single fucking member thinks they are all “hardgainers”, “FFB’s” and several other labels that do nothing but make them think they can’t do this at all.
NO ONE is going to know whether they really have the genetics for this until they put in a few years gaining size and strength unless they are so genetically gifted that they are already well developed.
Therefore, focusing on the weakest among us as if that is how we should approach training will do nothing but hold other people back. There can be nothing good that comes of it other than several thousand clueless newbies not growing but buying tons of supplements.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
That isn’t what I meant. The number of guys out there with genetics so shitty that they need to do something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than what built size for most people should be so small as to not need major focus on this website.
Instead, nearly every single fucking member thinks they are all “hardgainers”, “FFB’s” and several other labels that do nothing but make them think they can’t do this at all.
NO ONE is going to know whether they really have the genetics for this until they put in a few years gaining size and strength unless they are so genetically gifted that they are already well developed.
Therefore, focusing on the weakest among us as if that is how we should approach training will do nothing but hold other people back. There can be nothing good that comes of it other than several thousand clueless newbies not growing but buying tons of supplements.[/quote]
I was chubby as a baby so therefore I’m a “FFB”. But once I hit high school, I got skinny, and couldn’t put weight on. So that must mean I was “hardgainer” too. So, how should I eat? I’m scared. If I eat too much I’ll gain the baby fat back. But if I don’t eat enough the hardgainer will take over and I’ll never put on weight!!!
Seriously people, stop labeling yourselves, all it’s going to do is hold you back.
Oh and thanks CT for posting those pics, now I really feel small. Cripes… I’ve got a SHIT TON of work to do.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Instead, nearly every single fucking member thinks they are all “hardgainers”, “FFB’s” and several other labels that do nothing but make them think they can’t do this at all.
NO ONE is going to know whether they really have the genetics for this until they put in a few years gaining size and strength unless they are so genetically gifted that they are already well developed.
[/quote]
I was thinking a similar thing recently. In fact, I think about this often whenever I try to put a limit on how much I can grow/week, how big I can get, how fast I can get there, how often I can train… etc etc etc.
Funnily enough, 5 or so weeks ago, I was getting a bit upset because my jeans were getting too tight in the waist. Now, I keep reading about how you can’t gain fat and lose muscle at the same time. Lo and behold, I threw in a bit of cardio and sports and my waist has actually shrunk (!) while I’ve gained about 4 lbs.
Similarly, I’ve gained about 30 lbs of mass in about 3.5 months.
I freaked out a couple of times, because I was so into believing all the BS that I keep reading. “You can only gain X pounds of muscle in X weeks,” etc etc etc.
You’ll never know unless you try first.
[quote]G87 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Instead, nearly every single fucking member thinks they are all “hardgainers”, “FFB’s” and several other labels that do nothing but make them think they can’t do this at all.
NO ONE is going to know whether they really have the genetics for this until they put in a few years gaining size and strength unless they are so genetically gifted that they are already well developed.
I was thinking a similar thing recently. In fact, I think about this often whenever I try to put a limit on how much I can grow/week, how big I can get, how fast I can get there, how often I can train… etc etc etc.
Funnily enough, 5 or so weeks ago, I was getting a bit upset because my jeans were getting too tight in the waist. Now, I keep reading about how you can’t gain fat and lose muscle at the same time. Lo and behold, I threw in a bit of cardio and sports and my waist has actually shrunk (!) while I’ve gained about 4 lbs.
Similarly, I’ve gained about 30 lbs of mass in about 3.5 months.
I freaked out a couple of times, because I was so into believing all the BS that I keep reading. “You can only gain X pounds of muscle in X weeks,” etc etc etc.
You’ll never know unless you try first.[/quote]
This is a big reason why i don’t listen to the “you can’t’s” of the bodybuilding MBs. I was making pretty good gains in high school and college lifting for sports while reading Flex Mag, listening to my coaches and reading a book by Franco Columbu. I didn’t even realize that some of the things I was gainin in terms of muscle amount in a year or strength increases over a 3 month period were “impossible”. Once my progress had slowed and I found the internet and MBs i then ‘learned’ that I was a hard gainer (thank you stupid internet). Then I learned from some strange guy on a blue flexboard that food was good and I was no longer a hard gainer (thank you internet)…
In short people listen to so much negative crap from people who don’t have their best interest in mind that they limit themselves…
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If they were truly creating impressively big and muscular bodybuilders, don’t you think they would be rushing to post pics of them?
Yes, that’s what I was thinking. Even if pure bodybuilders aren’t people they usually train, couldn’t they use a before and after picture of a MMA fighter?
Only guy I’ve seen who uses pictures of himself and actual clients (and himself WITH an actual client), is Christian Thibaudeau. Oh, and I remember Scott Abel using pictures of clients in one article.
There are probably others who have done the same, I haven’t read every article on T-Nation.
Point being, if you want me to buy your books, show me someone with a regular physique who you trained to be BIG. And what would be a more natural place of putting the pictures than in an article written to PROMOTE THE DAMN BOOK.[/quote]
This is America people charge for everything. If i’m an MMA fighter, and I already paid you to train me. I’m going to charge you for my picture, that’s IF UFC let’s me take the picture in which case they’re going to want a piece of the action also.
The NFL NBA, and MLB are 10x worse. Why do you think half the time they can’t even say the names of specific guys they train. The agents will jump to sue so quick, for using their name to promote their book.
Bodybuilding might have a tad more leeway because of the amatuer status of these guys but many of them are still thinking long term, and an agent is not going to just release pictures without forming some sort of deal.
Think about how even some members of T-Nation can’t post a picture without an inzer shirt, you think he’s going to let Poliquin use his picture and risk inzer sponsorship. Bodybuilding books aren’t bringing in THAT much money to shell out to everybody you have a picture of in your book.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If they were truly creating impressively big and muscular bodybuilders, don’t you think they would be rushing to post pics of them?
Yes, that’s what I was thinking. Even if pure bodybuilders aren’t people they usually train, couldn’t they use a before and after picture of a MMA fighter?
Only guy I’ve seen who uses pictures of himself and actual clients (and himself WITH an actual client), is Christian Thibaudeau. Oh, and I remember Scott Abel using pictures of clients in one article.
There are probably others who have done the same, I haven’t read every article on T-Nation.
Point being, if you want me to buy your books, show me someone with a regular physique who you trained to be BIG. And what would be a more natural place of putting the pictures than in an article written to PROMOTE THE DAMN BOOK.
This is America people charge for everything. If i’m an MMA fighter, and I already paid you to train me. I’m going to charge you for my picture, that’s IF UFC let’s me take the picture in which case they’re going to want a piece of the action also.
The NFL NBA, and MLB are 10x worse. Why do you think half the time they can’t even say the names of specific guys they train. The agents will jump to sue so quick, for using their name to promote their book.
Bodybuilding might have a tad more leeway because of the amatuer status of these guys but many of them are still thinking long term, and an agent is not going to just release pictures without forming some sort of deal.
Think about how even some members of T-Nation can’t post a picture without an inzer shirt, you think he’s going to let Poliquin use his picture and risk inzer sponsorship. Bodybuilding books aren’t bringing in THAT much money to shell out to everybody you have a picture of in your book.
[/quote]
Er, the models they do end up using also charge?
You telling me that some average joe trained by guru X won’t be thankful for his no doubt utterly amazing progress and pose for a few pics?
Even if he were demanding money, it will hardly be an enormous amount.
Certainly not as much as a professional model would charge.
Poliquin has pictures of some of his clients (mostly the same 3 or so) in his books… I won’t comment on those further, but I don’t think Poliquin is the one (or only one) in question here.
And it is apparently ok to use just about everyone’s pics in an internet article, even if the guys are sponsored… So… Why is CT one of the very few authors who actually post pics of their clients?
Could it be that some others quite simply never got anyone from 150 to 250 lbs?
Shelby, Dante etc have lots of pics up of people they trained…
I’m not overly familiar with Shelby, but Dante has worked with a whole bunch of bodybuilders from Pros, 202 Olympia Winners (teehehee) to NPC guys, average joes, genetically challenged guys, marines, drug-free guys, assisted guys…
Seems to be no huge issue for any of them that he has a few pics up on some website.
So at least internet articles should be featuring some of the people trained by that author/ people who had success with the program in question.
And if there are no people who have had any success with new program X yet (because it’s new, maybe…), well, then I don’t see why it should be immediately published and hyped before some actual before and afters are available.
[quote]Tiznut wrote:
In short people listen to so much negative crap from people who don’t have their best interest in mind that they limit themselves…[/quote]
When I was curling 85lbs dumbbells, I remember posting that I could on that website you just talked about. Back then I got several posts about how that isn’t possible and that no one can do that much without tons of steroids. I didn’t even know lifting that much was THAT spectacular to some people.
If you surround yourself with people more focused on what you supposedly can’t do, you WILL fail.
This explains why there may be 4 people on this WHOLE site who actively post that would make someone say, “holy shit” based off of their development alone.
I don’t workout, i just do that yogalates thing. Know what i am saying?
It’s all good though, i can reverse DB kickback 30’s with ok form.
Welcome to the internet, its full of clowns.