[quote]chimera182 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
chimera182 wrote:
From a logical point of view, who the person saying something is is irrelevant to the validity of his/her claim. Disregarding something based on who says it is an ad hominem fallacy (thank you philosophy 101).
I wouldn’t thank them just yet if you really believe this. In fact, here’s what you do…you go ahead and ask everu single 120lbs person you see how to get really BIG muscles and I’ll stick to following what really big people do in the gym to get even bigger.
In 5 years we shall compare results.
Starting…now.
The rest of my post clarified my opinion, or so I thought. I meant that from a purely logical standpoint, it’s irrelevant who says something. But in the case of fitness/bodybuilding you’re probably better served listening to people who look like they know what they’re talking about.[/quote]
The same goes for all walks of life. Would you really listen to the janitor at a clinic over the doctor? If not, then who is speaking does matter and always has from a logical standpoint.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
anonym wrote:
As such, it is probably best to look at the clients (not client - as most would like to see how style ‘X’ works ON THE WHOLE…not just for one or two people cough Bartl cough Gus*) as a more accurate representation of how well specific methods work.
Sebastien Cossette
Christiane Lamy
Amit Sapir (won his pro card)
Oscar Dexter (won his pro card)
Allen Cress
Just to give you a few examples besides Bartl and Gus
See…now you are just making me feel bad.
Did he win that show?
Who? Amit or Oscar?
Amit.
I’ve never seen Oscar before.[/quote]
Yes he did win. Then he competed in powerlifting, doing something like a 600lbs bench. He is now 17 weeks out from his next show. We will have 4 more weeks to build some size then 12 weeks of dieting and 1 week of peaking.
Oscar is a monster… 6’2’’ 350lbs off-season, 300 in contest shape. I’m meeting with him monday I’ll take some pics.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Just to give you a few examples besides Bartl and Gus ;)[/quote]
Now THOSE are what I call physiques! Oscar looks absolutely insane.
Though, for what it’s worth, you can count yourself one of the authors on this site no one held in question when clicking on this thread…in regards to your build or those of your clients (as I know you’ve posted about a few of them before).
[quote]Professor X wrote:
chimera182 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
chimera182 wrote:
From a logical point of view, who the person saying something is is irrelevant to the validity of his/her claim. Disregarding something based on who says it is an ad hominem fallacy (thank you philosophy 101).
I wouldn’t thank them just yet if you really believe this. In fact, here’s what you do…you go ahead and ask everu single 120lbs person you see how to get really BIG muscles and I’ll stick to following what really big people do in the gym to get even bigger.
In 5 years we shall compare results.
Starting…now.
The rest of my post clarified my opinion, or so I thought. I meant that from a purely logical standpoint, it’s irrelevant who says something. But in the case of fitness/bodybuilding you’re probably better served listening to people who look like they know what they’re talking about.
The same goes for all walks of life. Would you really listen to the janitor at a clinic over the doctor? If not, then who is speaking does matter and always has from a logical standpoint. [/quote]
I’m assuming that what the janitor at the clinic tells me would not make a whole lot of sense in comparison to what the doctor was saying. I agree with you, although I think that we’re using the term logically differently.
In my case it would be from a formal argument and in your case it would be in application to real life. Your way of course is more useful and mine was simply being arguemntative.
Once I got myself out of the full body is the “best” way to to train mentality. I started talking to every big guy I saw in the gym. I picked up a little here and there and continue to learn all the time. From time to time I’ll get a big guy over my shoulder either pushing me or watching to see If I half ass my workout (real motivating).
I carry this thought process on the web to. If the guy doesn’t have past achievements of brute strength and above average muscle gains I’ll take his words with a grain of salt.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
chimera182 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
chimera182 wrote:
From a logical point of view, who the person saying something is is irrelevant to the validity of his/her claim. Disregarding something based on who says it is an ad hominem fallacy (thank you philosophy 101).
I wouldn’t thank them just yet if you really believe this. In fact, here’s what you do…you go ahead and ask everu single 120lbs person you see how to get really BIG muscles and I’ll stick to following what really big people do in the gym to get even bigger.
In 5 years we shall compare results.
Starting…now.
The rest of my post clarified my opinion, or so I thought. I meant that from a purely logical standpoint, it’s irrelevant who says something. But in the case of fitness/bodybuilding you’re probably better served listening to people who look like they know what they’re talking about.
The same goes for all walks of life. Would you really listen to the janitor at a clinic over the doctor? If not, then who is speaking does matter and always has from a logical standpoint. [/quote]
Hopefully the doctors would be saying things slightly more useful than the janitor. I think that we were using “logical” differently I was using it from an argumentative standpoint, and you were using it in application to real life.
I agree with you though that it does matter who’s speaking, and that that person should show evidence of knowing what they’re talking about.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Oscar is a monster… 6’2’’ 350lbs off-season, 300 in contest shape. I’m meeting with him monday I’ll take some pics.
Holy shit.
See, if you wanted to know why I don’t feel like I’m there yet…it’s because I hear about people like this.[/quote]
Supposedly his brother is ever larger (albeit not as muscular). He is from Tahiti, so he has those big Samoan genes. He ‘‘migrated’’ to Quebec just for bodybuilding (who moves from Tahiti to Quebec… seriously!)
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
This is why I only listen to CT and polliquin. The other’s can probably babrely squat my wrist curl max. I’m not listening to a word they have to say.
come on man,
Dave Tate
Joel Marion
Scott Abel
Dr. Berardi
Chad Waterbury ( I dont know why people wont admit he’s big)
Eric Cressey
Joe DeFranco
Dr. Darden (Yes he’s in his 60’s now, look at him in his prime)
Nate Green(yes, he’s a journalist first, dude aint small though)
Jimmy Smith
Tony Gentilcore
I even kept it to people who are putting out more recent articles, left out King, Alessi, and Barr.
All these guys look like they can move some iron.
And i’ve met Jay Cutler,Dexter Jackson,Ronnie Coleman, Lee Priest, and Chris Cormier, I can tell ya that we wouldnt learn a whole lot of new stuff if we got daily articles from those guys.
Doesn’t mean that I dont appreciate what they have to say and the hard work theyve put it, I just think that mass alone does not a good writer make.
–JB
[/quote]
I agree. Who’s the OP have an axe to grind with? That’s what I’d like to know…
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Oscar is a monster… 6’2’’ 350lbs off-season, 300 in contest shape. I’m meeting with him monday I’ll take some pics.
Holy shit.
See, if you wanted to know why I don’t feel like I’m there yet…it’s because I hear about people like this.
Supposedly his brother is ever larger (albeit not as muscular). He is from Tahiti, so he has those big Samoan genes. He ‘‘migrated’’ to Quebec just for bodybuilding (who moves from Tahiti to Quebec… seriously!)[/quote]
When I stopped listening to trendy writers whom lacked muscular development themselves and began following the bigger stronger guys I began really making progress. Guys like Thibaudeau and Prof X here for example, these guys are the real deal, guys who have been there and done that and have something to show for it.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
timbofirstblood wrote:
I remember seeing an article awhile back that included an image of Arnold. Now, I’m 100% sure that this coach didn’t train Arnold, so why do they think they can take credit for his success?
That’s a dopey line of thinking. The images in articles are, mostly, for something interesting or relevant to look at. Unless the author specifically states, “And this is an example of my training methods,” You’d be a half-wit to think it’s being implied that the coach worked with the individual pictured.
[/quote]
I definitely didn’t express myself very well in that post. The thing is though, the author wasn’t even using an athlete that espoused the methods being written about in the article. It would make more sense if I could find the piece, but believe when I say the photo was completely unrelated to the content of the article.
There’s a difference between putting up a cool photo as an avatar and including an unrelated photo into an article to make it look better.
EDIT: I found the article that made me scratch my head a little bit. Chad Waterbury has made his mark by pushing whole body training routines as opposed to body part splits, so why are there three pictures of Arnold in the article, when the Oak was a strong advocate for splitting the body up? It doesn’t make sense to me.
[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
timbofirstblood wrote:
I remember seeing an article awhile back that included an image of Arnold. Now, I’m 100% sure that this coach didn’t train Arnold, so why do they think they can take credit for his success?
That’s a dopey line of thinking. The images in articles are, mostly, for something interesting or relevant to look at. Unless the author specifically states, “And this is an example of my training methods,” You’d be a half-wit to think it’s being implied that the coach worked with the individual pictured.
I definitely didn’t express myself very well in that post. The thing is though, the author wasn’t even using an athlete that espoused the methods being written about in the article. It would make more sense if I could find the piece, but believe when I say the photo was completely unrelated to the content of the article.
There’s a difference between putting up a cool photo as an avatar and including an unrelated photo into an article to make it look better.
EDIT: I found the article that made me scratch my head a little bit. Chad Waterbury has made his mark by pushing whole body training routines as opposed to body part splits, so why are there three pictures of Arnold in the article, when the Oak was a strong advocate for splitting the body up? It doesn’t make sense to me.
the person writing the article does not add photo’s to it
Cressey is strong as an ox and can outrun most people in a sprint, and then rape them on the tennis court.
Tony G and Nate Green routinely grate cheese on their abs.
Berardi has been upwards of 200 at 5% while coaching, larger and leaner while competing.
Joel Marion, last time I saw him, was walking around at about 270, and stomping through New England hamlets like Paul Bunyon, swinging his ax and singing hymns to his war-god.
Cosgrove is athletically built, and throws a roundhouse that could shatter your skull --just like he shattered FUCKING CANCER.
On another note, while I agree with CT (whose physique needs no defense) that people should lead from the front, I just always go back to Mel Siff. You all owe him more than you can possibly realize. Anyone who says you can’t or didn’t learn anything from Supertraining is absolutely beyond hope.
Most people feel that if a trainer isn’t ripped or isn’t sporting a six pack, they pretty much discredit any training advice they offer. Right or wrong, we are just creatures of habit.
[quote]forlife wrote:
To broaden the discussion, I wouldn’t mind seeing a current pic of everyone posting in the forums, especially those that constantly give advice to others about how to build massive muscle or lean out. [/quote]
[quote]forlife wrote:
To broaden the discussion, I wouldn’t mind seeing a current pic of everyone posting in the forums, especially those that constantly give advice to others about how to build massive muscle or lean out. [/quote]
