Athletes 4+ Hours of Training?

Training Powerlifting
21

Dearest Tri GWU,

[quote]A) There is no such thing as a collegiate tri-athlete. You are in college and do triathlons.

why is there a collegiate championship? [/quote]

Is there an NCAA championship? No. End of story.

[quote]Now, let’s dream of a day when your sport required reactivity and skill, instead of the extensive development of a single energy system: aerobic.
What I wrote is what should be done… you see, the only aspect of your training that isn’t cyclical is the swimming. This sport requires higher levels of technical training.

Ever been in an open water swim 1 miles from shore where anything goes? [/quote]

No, the fact that you are in the open water a mile from shore = slow (relatively to most sports)… are you actually comparing a battle among triathletes? LOL

Nope, I am sure this compares to play after play of avoiding 230 Linebackers… not even remotely the same. You describe a freakish accident. The latter IS the sport.

Should have been pedaling not quite as slowly for the past 30 minutes…
Again, trying to equate this to the rapid nature of soccer or basketball? Get real… your sport is endurance.

Cyclical is running and biking… you have a lot to learn…obviously. If you are implying that changing your clothes is a skill, then I will admit you are the best in the world at this skill. ( I will leave out all comments regardning how happy this makes your boyfriend)

Sprinting is cyslical also… catching on?

[quote]Putting one foot dirctly in front of the other in a slow cyclical manner, and pedalling in the same manner requires very, very little skill when compared to the dynamic nature of a team sport such as soccer, basketball, or football, or even baseball.

What about this skill dictates that you spend $500,000+ on pampered workouts that last 8 hours? [quote]

Who said pampered? Say you want to face 100 pitches this morning in game-like conditions. 10 pitches at a time, 30 seconds between pitches, then switch while your training partner takes some… that would take 1.5 hours alone…no? Use your PHD mind to do the math… not pampered…it’s called skill work…

Wrong and ignorant. Keep jogging.

Skill must be maintained and honed. Yur lack of this knowledge is obviously why you are a jogger and not an athlete in a sport which requires skill and power.

[quote]Baseball also only truly requires the development of a single energy system: a-lactic. This makes it even less demanding than something like soccer which develops two to a great degree. Unfortunately, you cannot train a baseball player like a bodybuilder or an elite powerlifter due to the rotational and explosive nature of the sport.

A powerlifter is never required to start, stop, and change direction in the manner a team sport athlete is…this requires motor skills very different than just mere expressions of power and/or strength. This requires more dynamic mobility, and Onset of Tension Control to avoid pulls after periods of inactivity (standing in the outfield…waiting).

Plus, a baseball player must also be very proficient at other reactive skills, tracking down fly balls, intercepting driven grounders, fielding them, and throwing accurately and with very high velocity to a target. Then we move onto the single hardest skill in all of sports, hitting a baseball…

My 5 year old nephew plays baseball. He catches fly balls just fine. He isn’t juicing either. [/quote]

Well, why isn’t he drafted?

Cute response…totally inappropriate. Your 5-year old runs, swims, and bikes well also… is he going to be lined up next to you this year at your “collegiate championship?”

[quote]The single hardest skill in all of sports?

What about a sandshot from a fairway bunker to 4in. from the pin? [/quote]

Not as difficult, having done both. When I grew up, the golf course was my babysitter. Now, if the ball was moving at 95 mph and I had to hit it 4 inches from the pin, then we would be talking…

Not as difficult, having kicked one from 42 in HS. Soccer is a winter sport where I come from, so FB and soccer player can be one and the same… The ball is still, the target it still.

With a huge webbed pocket, and it isn’t curving… and you have to do it making contact and getting it past 9 defenders…not close again.

Endurance sport that is totally cyclical. This is a testament to endurance and dominance, not skill…obviously. This exact statement shows me that you are a college punk who is angry that you are a) small and weak, and b) angry because you are small and weak.

These two facts are cloudng your PHD analytical ability.

Cyclical, and training related, not skill. These obvious retorts are getting old. See above.

Sorry, I was fast, so I didn’t do endurance sports with other athletes who generate low levels of power due to the way they train… it is the nature of the beast Tri…sorry to burst your bubble.

[quote]All this reverance and I don’t even really like the sport.

It helps me fall asleep. Otherwise… 100+ games is highly insignificant. Tell me why a team that barely won half their games… a team that loses over 50 games… should be called “World Champions”… but we aren’t talking about baseball. [/quote]

This has to do with the league and the management, not the players…so quit crying, it isn’t pertinent.

[quote]Plus, as stated in my first post, the development of early retirement due to a low level of conditioning is due to the very thinking you espouse: laziness.

Agreed. Training without purpose.[/quote]

So, GPP has no purpose, skill training has no purpose, and any other facet save for lifting has no purpose…? Interesting…you will be very sought after to be sure… you can list PHD after your name and trick some people into hiring your cynical, uneducated, small “but amazingly enduranced” self…

[quote]Hell Nolan Ryan never had to leave the mound or hit. He just had to stand in a single place and fire thunderbolts. No real fielding proficiency, no batting, no running to speak of…

so why did he have in his contract that a stationary bike MUST travel with him on the road? Because he understood that you don’t know what you are talking about…he understood GPP, and conditioning…

Funny in all his conditioning… he requested a bike.

Shouldn’t he have requested you? [/quote]

Why would he request me? The bike makes good sense. It requires no skill, provides no impact, and he can read a book or watch TV while doing it… since it requires no skill…which is probably why you excel at it. The biggest challenge is avoiding the other guys who “lose their balance right in fron of me.” Wow. You little guys sure are funny…

[quote]So Tri GWU, the length of the game has absolutely nothing to do with the level of training required when so many skills must be developed…

I can see your point…

There really is no point in a marathoner considering that he/she has to run 26.2 miles.

There really is no point in training a skill that is one fluid motion as one fluid motion. You teach a kid to hit a baseball by having him hit a baseball. Not by horizontal shoulder adductions.[/quote]

Agreed, so what. You add power and develop the muscles to hit it farther through rotational training… so now you have driven my point…

You must train:

hitting the ball (skill)
and developing more power, so he can someday hit it farther than your 5 year old who you compared with professional athletes.

Then address all of the other qualities which would make you a professional. (Throwing, fielding, running, deceleration, etc)

When we are discussing doing something slowly, but for a really long time, I will defer to you. But, when we are discussing developing many skills, and many different energy systems, maybe you should let the big boys speak…

When compared to other athletes, triathletes are obviously doing their task much slower. That is why the predominant determining factor for success is endurance (and as you so eloquently pointed out, mastering the skill of changing into different speedos) Get educated.

Who said it was…you were the instigator… and a pretty cocky one for an endurance athlete.

Now please, don’t you have to jog somewhere?

Why do you assume that is what I do? Ignorant at best, and pointless. But completely undersatdnable for an endurance guy to write off extreme power production due to something other than the fact that some humans are simply more powerful than others…

Every time a steroid scandal comes out, it really helps you to justify why you are small and not powerful, doesn’t it? You can just write off your lacking areas with “see I told you those guys had to be juicing!!!”

Wrong. But, I hope it makes you feel better… a “little” better as it were.

[quote]And while you do, you can let this post sink in…

Just like that needle. See above. [/quote]

Wrong X 2. Good job doc. At least you stick by your ignorance. I admire principled people…

[quote]If the last post was from my ass, then what does that say about your head?

Unlike yours… it thinks independently of your self-proclaimed large cock [/quote]

Who said I had a large cock… I never did…hmmm.

You really ave an issue with other men’s penises and size…huh. Very, very suprising.

And believe me, if you have followed my posts here, you know I think far differently than most…

[quote ]Here the strawman ends…

Coach JR
CSCS

JAB
MD/PhD candidate [/quote]

Come find out about some straw. You can find out in a big hurry why you were cut from skill / power sports.

Stay in school. It is safer there for a cynical endurance guy.

Get a decade or two of training speed athletes under your belt, then comment on them. Until then, you are just an uneducated kid who jogs…period.

I don’t claim to know the level of drive it takes to run for 26 miles, merely that it is done slowly relative to speed sports…period.

Candidate? LOL…exactly.

Be safe out there with those very scary other triathletes in the water… I will just stick to playing with these goofy little linebacker types…

Triathletes?.. that is what you do when you aren’t fast… or are too old to sprint anymore…

I don’t realy feel that way, but you deserve it… badly.

I train an elite marathoner, and she commented the other day about ironman types. She said, " I can’t imagine running that slow. "

I merely laughed and then asked her to reflect on the perspective of the sprinters… that all slow endurance people hate so much. Funny that she has the same views…

Jog on, most tough, reactive, powerful, skilled athlete… wow. I almost kept a straight face…not really.

I am going to train some sprinters. I will try to incorporate your advice, so we are going to warm up, get some dynamic mobility in, and then we’ll practice for 10 seconds… maybe 20 for the 200 guys.

How does that sound?

And my track athletes are almost completely cyclical in nature with very little skill work outside of form perfection…hmmm.

Then, I am going to sit down to the collegiate championship of skateboarding… like your sport it isn’t NCAA sponsored, but hey, it’s a real sport, right…?

At least the skateboarders have skill requirements…extreme levels actually.

If I can stay up until 4am this morning, I will turn on ESPN 8 and see if I can see your “Championship”.

Good luck to you… doc.

Don’t get mowed down by an ultra powerful 138 pound Tri-guy. I have my fingers crossed for you.

22

Jumanji,

You put forth a very nice Ad Hominem

You do very well at attacking the person rather than the subject matter. Apparently, when I directly questioned the reasoning behind such training nonsense, you felt threatened and this resorted to attacking your asinine understanding of my sport. While I think it will do little use to attempt to refute your points, I will do so.

The only chance I have at you seeing my point, requires you to put your penis back in your pants, decrease your head size by about 400m, and admit your argumentative fallacies.

It is with this far-fetched hope, that I address your cock wagging.

  1. There need not be an NCAA championship for it to be considered a sport. Unfortunately, due to NCAA policies, it would take a near decade for triathlon to be established as a recognized sport. This is due to the fact that it is an international sport run by international rules. The NCAA likes to make their own rules.

  2. As you pointed out, fast and slow are relative terms. If you attempted to complete a triathlon you would be considered slow. Luckily, you could drop-trou and attempt to pick-up your shattered ego by sporting your innate coaching ability conveniently packaged in a minute-yet-somehow-impressive-to-you, penis.

  3. Another argumentative fallacy: equivocation . You are attempting to establish the arguement that soccer is greater than triathlon. Soccer is a sport. Baseball is a sport. Thus, baseball is greater than triathlon. It just doesn’t work like that. Your inability to refute my points lies in your obvious attempt to use every NCAA sanctioned sport in your defense.

  4. I don’t know what makes you believe that implying your opponent is “gay” strengthens your arguement. I never knew that every triathlete was gay, nor did I know that every sprinter was straight. You guys must have terrible discrimination policies.

  5. Another reference to jogging.

  6. Power is a term. Power = Work / rate. Power is not some characteristic to discern the sexual orientation of two competitive events.

  7. Not every MLB pitcher tosses every pitch at 95 MPH. Yes we have hit a shot that close from the pin, not as well as the pros. That is why you are a a mediocre strength coach poorly attempting to defend yourself to a college student.

  8. Oh wait, moving targets. Lemme take 30 seconds, adjust my cup and find a better example. Badmitton? The birdie moves 100+ mph. Guess that makes it hard.

  9. The Tour De France is a pussy sport. I know… I know. Whens the last time you burned 6,000 calories in one day and woke up to do it again?

  10. I’m assuming your decades of experience have left you with the ability to determine that I am small and weak. In the weightroom I actually do very well for my size. I bench 225, squat and deadlift 315. This all of course is in mind that I weigh 170 lbs and I still finish an olympic distance triathlon in 2 hours.

  11. You were fast over short distances. I am fast over long distances. One doesn’t make the other any better. You can run at 200 BPM for 20 seconds. I can run at 200+ BPM for minutes. I can run at 212 BPM for minutes. Are we done penis wagging yet?

  12. Nolan Ryan used a bike. Yeah he used all that other stuff. You can’t recover from that one. All he requested was a bike.

  13. Again, wagging your penis.

14 . I have played and accelled in other sports. Shouldn’t decades of coaching tell you that?

  1. I didn’t notice your name in the PrimeTime box, omniscient one

  2. Going by mere calculation, an elite ironman (after a 2.4 mi swim and a 112 mi bike) isn’t far off from your elite marathoner as far as speed in the marathon. Consider that both run 26.2 mi, only one does a lot more before hand. Funny that your elite marathoner competes in what triathletes would consider a “cool-down”. But covering all that ground in under 8.5 hours is slow. I’m sure sprinters could cover it much faster.

  3. In the 2004 Olympics, USA had more of a triathlon team then a Baseball team. Atleast the triathlon team made it to the games.

  4. Yes, the Triathlon World Championships are on TV. They are conveniently televised in the afternoon on ESPN 1.

In closing I leave you with this…

In your professional manner you have poorly attempted to use, in logical fallacy, a myriad of sports to your favor. You have attempted to glorify your argument through equivocation, seniority, and subordination… not through specific address. I hope that your well constructed argument has earned you many more customers. In your decades of training I would have hoped you would have established a somewhat mediocre ability to debate an issue. Apparently that is not the case.

23

Tri~

You brought up penises, little kid. Not me.

You still fail to see the crux of the entire argument.

Team sports require skill, plus require the athletic demands of their sport.

Your sport centers on the on aspect: endurance.

Now, swimming takes great skill, but I would bet good money that if you were a great swimmer, you would be doing that and getting your school paid for… but you aren’t.

In fact, you aren’t good enough at any sport to get your school paid for, so you decided to comepete in a sport that very few compete in, and then try to equate it with all of the sports that are popular and thus have huge talent pools.

You can’t shrink someone’s head by 400m, a human head is measured in volume, not area…You are not really bright for a supposed future doctor.

In the end, all of your supposed banter comes down to a simple fact:

You don’t know anything about sports which require skill and multiple energy systems. But, you will talk trash to those who do… simply ignorant.

I know, I know, you played other sports prior to becoming a great jogger, paddler, pedaler…

but, as I stated before, you weren’t good enough at any of them to get your school paid for… and through your posts against the NCAA, this is something that will bug you for years…

The NCAA doesn’t sponsor a Dungeons and Dragons tournament either, no matter how much endurance it takes to concentrate late into the night… Damn the man, right? You can align with all those guys who also call pro athletes meatheads who do steroids…

So now you just extend out the distance further to make up for your lack of ability…

“Maybe if I do something slowly for a longer period of time I can receive recognition”

Maybe not.

That is why the NCAA cares little for your sport… and the rest of America falls in line…

If it was impressive (which, on a personal note, I actually think it is if we are looking at extreme endurance) it would be popular…

But, it isn’t. The average speed you run is the same as most good athletes in HS, same for the swim, same for the biking…it’s just that you do it for a long time… yawn.

I am not on the Prime Time box due to the fact that I do not write articles for the magazine… were you not young and ignorant of how capitalism works, you never would have said something so silly…

So in the end:

You were a sub-par athlete that couldn’t get a scholarship, who squats what my wife does (Division I Volleyball with poor levers for squatting), Deadlifts less than what she does, but somehow wants respect for his cynical comments on a strength / Power Sports forum… amazing.

The truth is that your sport keeps you from posting big numbers, so why you stated them at all makes no sense… it merely outlines how little you understand…

Let’s hope you have something to add to the conversation save for the perspective of a kid who does triathlons…

Please tell us that you actually understand what it takes to develop elite skill levels while enhancing power, explosiveness, and sport specific endurance… while correcting poor movement patterns…hmmm

Until you do, please refrain from accusing others who are doing just that, that we are “talking out of our asses”.

Until that time, you are just a young, cynical, weak athlete who competes against other guys who weren’t good enough to dominate a single event race… all of which are centered around one primary factor: endurance.

Get over yourself, and more people won’t scoff at and mock your kind…

Like I said a few times before, the level of endurance your sport requires is amazing… but let’s not act as if all other athletes must be taking steroids and are wasting time when they are perfecting skills through quality repetitions…

A professional athlete SHOULD be logging hours at his trade… it is what he is paid to do…

Skill Work,
Acceleration, COD Work,
Energy System Work,
GPP,
and Rehab / Prehab…

Then come the recovery methods… All are part of a “training protocol”…

I am sure you could package this all into a nice little 1 hour workout, 4 X Per Week…

I am just not bright enough apparently… along with every other dumb strength coach out there…

Please enlighten us…doc.

I have to get to the fields…

And am wholly through with you…

24

Jumanji, absolutely great post. I’m guessing that anyone who disparages it has never really tried following a routine with GPP, technical work, prehab/rehab, training, soft tissue work, and EMS (when applicable).

I as an athlete was of much the same thinking as your opponent who says you’re talking out of your ass.

But being in a sport that does require reactivity, the use of many energy systems, and is enough different overloads to keep the threat of injury constant, I believe you are right on track. I have only for the past few months been doing more technical training, started GPP work, done rehab/prehab, gotten posture/structure examined by performance coach, and gotten more soft tissue work. And I will only say that I am improving as an athlete like never before.

You throw in massage and saunas and I can easily see how athletes are at a workout facility or in some way ‘working’ for more than a “few” hours per day. (While agreeing at the same time that many are just wasting time with bad training methods)

TriGWU , you are the one talking out of your ass.

25

"Yearly Salary: 8,000,000

Knowledgeable Trainer: 150k
ART/Massage (4 Split among Team): 100k
Chef: 100k
Personal Assistant: 50k
Driver: 50k
Ability to Focus on Game: Priceless "

Also, good breakdown of the miniscule cost of an athlete bettering his performance and ensuring his body doesn’t break down from injury/overtraining.

We may have hours and hours to devote to reading about training and structuring out programs, but an elite highly paid athlete would be much better off if he could just find a good performance coach who will take the guesswork out of it and tell him what to do for say 1% of his yearly salary (what a joke as a percentage!)

26

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Tri~

You brought up penises, little kid. Not me.

You still fail to see the crux of the entire argument.

Team sports require skill, plus require the athletic demands of their sport.
[/quote]

I don’t see how this justifies 8 hours of training. That was the original argument wasn’t it? I simply pointed out the useless nature of all that training. You can’t tell me that to be in MLB you need to train for 8 hours a day.

I am on full academic merit scholarship. GW’s budget doesn’t allow full-tuition swimming scholarships, nor does it allow one to combine two scholarship degrees. Swim for nothing or studying and compete in triathlon for full tuition.

This makes absolutely no sense. Please tell me where you got this information. Based on what was stated above, by me, there is no implication that I wasn’t good at any other sport. I am better at triathlon. Michael Jordan was better at basketball. The fact that he sucked at baseball doesn’t make him a terrible athlete.

Diameter.
In your case, AREA, is measured by .5(diameter)^2. In which case, my point to reduce the diameter, would infact reduce the volume.

I don’t know anything. It took you decades to come up with that?

I wasn’t talking trash. I was simply stating the point to which this pissfest came about… 4+ hours of training for a sport that doesnt compete for 4+ hours, is absolutely useless. If the players would be more efficient with their time, they would accomplish the same with less. Efficiency.

This serves no purpose.

I actually was recruited for NCAA Men’s Crew @ GW. But they too do not offer full-scholarships to athletes.

No purpose. I have a strange feeling this is pent up aggravation from your high school experience. I assume you are typing this from your wireless connection in line for the Star Wars premiere.

Oh you got me. I can’t hurdle that one.

You can’t even do something fast for a short period of time. You coach athletes that can… doesn’t mean you can. Sure maybe you used to… but now your dried up athleticism has resorted to inefficient coaching.

[/quote]

Maybe not.

That is why the NCAA cares little for your sport… and the rest of America falls in line…
[/quote]

You work for the NCAA too?

Another logical fallacy. The bandwagon approach. Just because the masses do it… doesn’t make it right. I’m sorry your life was stuck following the crowd. I don’t play a specific sport so that America will appeal to me. When I make the 2012 Olympic team, America will appeal to me.

Point on scholarship was easily refuted.

Remeber, don’t assume a point unless you know its proven. In this case, you assumed my lack of athletic scholarship was due to my poor athleticism. You never considered the athletic budget of my institution, nor my academic merit.

Do you even know what cynical means?!

I have, I do.

I’m sorry a college student hurt your feelings. If I am so inferior to you, I’m surprised you even bother equating your time with me

I’ll come back in decades.

I never did. You took a shot at me after I merely question the neccessity of 8 hours of training. I took a shot back

You are comparing me to a pro athlete.

Yet you never compare yourself to a pro athlete. You compare the athletes you coach to me.

Do you live through your athletes or do you have something of your own merit to stand for?

27

[quote]sammydon wrote:
Jumanji, absolutely great post. I’m guessing that anyone who disparages it has never really tried following a routine with GPP, technical work, prehab/rehab, training, soft tissue work, and EMS (when applicable).

[/quote]

I have followed this.

The definition of training is so vague that “drying off” could be consider some form of prehab. IF you throw in eating and sleeping, I train 24 hours a day

[quote]
TriGWU , you are the one talking out of your ass. [/quote]

Aww… you clap for him too… how cute.

28

[quote]sammydon wrote:
"Yearly Salary: 8,000,000

Knowledgeable Trainer: 150k
ART/Massage (4 Split among Team): 100k
Chef: 100k
Personal Assistant: 50k
Driver: 50k
Ability to Focus on Game: Priceless "

Also, good breakdown of the miniscule cost of an athlete bettering his performance and ensuring his body doesn’t break down from injury/overtraining.

We may have hours and hours to devote to reading about training and structuring out programs, but an elite highly paid athlete would be much better off if he could just find a good performance coach who will take the guesswork out of it and tell him what to do for say 1% of his yearly salary (what a joke as a percentage!)[/quote]

I never disagreed with hiring a coach.

I disagreed with the neccessity of 8 hours of training. Again, the neccessity.

Some how that turned into an attack on triathlons?

29

shame this thread was reduced to personal attacks, was enjoying both views untill it went downhill, one wonders where interpersonal and communication skills come into play with strength coaching.

30

Aussie,

I just need to stop “talking out of my ass”… then everything would be better.

The truth is that when you include all forms of training:

Mobility
Skill
Agility
Power
GPP
and Recovery (which are part of training)

If all of these areas are considered part of your job, then it is easy to see why it might take a considerable amout of time.

When skill training is considered, the contributuion to overtraining can be kept at bay. I am not sure if I would laugh or cry if a player came up to me and said:

Coach, Manny and I took 100 swings earlier, 10 at a time (30 seconds between pitches). This took almost 1.5 hours coach!!!

Plus then I fielded 100 grounders, and turned a dozen double plays!!!

Coach, I am so overtrained!!!

You can see the ridiculousness of the above statement… and thus the implication of those who don’t understand the fact that skill training, especially in a sport like baseball must be quality driven, but has only a minimal affect on recovery abilities.

Heck, fielding grounders might even be a form of GPP depending on the structure…

But, the implication of quality vs. quantity by endurance related athletes is impossible to take seriously due to the fact that full recovery between power / skill reps must include time for the Muscular AND CNS to recover between sets.

So, when my sprinters run all-out 150’s to 300’s, they might rest anywhere from 12 - 30 minutes… depending on where we are. (maybe more)

This is due to the fact that when running distance (much like power athletes GPP), the primary effect is muscular, not CNS.

So, in order to account for CNS recovery, the training must be lengthy to ensure quality… not the opposite.

If I were to ask a batter to take 100 cuts with each pitch being throw every 15 seconds with no rests, thus ensuring we would be out of the cages in 25 minutes…this would be worthless training. (No matter what the posts above say.)

So if we spread the time out so full concentration is utilized, and rest is taken between sets of pitches, then we can ensure a higher level of quality…

So the very argument that shorter is better, when pertaining to power sports is flawed from the very outset…

If all sports were more muscular in nature, and we removed the CNS / Power aspect we could all follow the advice proposed by those above with no knowledge or experience…

But then we would be stuck watching things that do not amaze…

Power, skill, and explosion amaze. That is why the NBA, NFL, and baseball still amaze most, while an endurance event needs someone like LeMond to even get Americans to notice…at all.

His dominance is admired, especially after his illness, but nobody watches the event…

They would rather ooh and aah at Iverson or Ray Lewis than watch soemone run, or jog, or pedal, or row, or whatever for a very, very, very long time.

The second is impressive to those of us who understand the dedication that such a sport takes, but Americans want muscle car races, not hydro-electric distance events…

It is the nature of our culture…

My butt has spoken.

31

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Aussie,

I just need to stop “talking out of my ass”… then everything would be better.

The truth is that when you include all forms of training:

Mobility
Skill
Agility
Power
GPP
and Recovery (which are part of training)

If all of these areas are considered part of your job, then it is easy to see why it might take a considerable amout of time.

When skill training is considered, the contributuion to overtraining can be kept at bay. I am not sure if I would laugh or cry if a player came up to me and said:

Coach, Manny and I took 100 swings earlier, 10 at a time (30 seconds between pitches). This took almost 1.5 hours coach!!!

Plus then I fielded 100 grounders, and turned a dozen double plays!!!

Coach, I am so overtrained!!!

You can see the ridiculousness of the above statement… and thus the implication of those who don’t understand the fact that skill training, especially in a sport like baseball must be quality driven, but has only a minimal affect on recovery abilities.

Heck, fielding grounders might even be a form of GPP depending on the structure…

But, the implication of quality vs. quantity by endurance related athletes is impossible to take seriously due to the fact that full recovery between power / skill reps must include time for the Muscular AND CNS to recover between sets.

So, when my sprinters run all-out 150’s to 300’s, they might rest anywhere from 12 - 30 minutes… depending on where we are. (maybe more)

This is due to the fact that when running distance (much like power athletes GPP), the primary effect is muscular, not CNS.

So, in order to account for CNS recovery, the training must be lengthy to ensure quality… not the opposite.

If I were to ask a batter to take 100 cuts with each pitch being throw every 15 seconds with no rests, thus ensuring we would be out of the cages in 25 minutes…this would be worthless training. (No matter what the posts above say.)

So if we spread the time out so full concentration is utilized, and rest is taken between sets of pitches, then we can ensure a higher level of quality…

So the very argument that shorter is better, when pertaining to power sports is flawed from the very outset…

If all sports were more muscular in nature, and we removed the CNS / Power aspect we could all follow the advice proposed by those above with no knowledge or experience…

But then we would be stuck watching things that do not amaze…

Power, skill, and explosion amaze. That is why the NBA, NFL, and baseball still amaze most, while an endurance event needs someone like LeMond to even get Americans to notice…at all.

His dominance is admired, especially after his illness, but nobody watches the event…

They would rather ooh and aah at Iverson or Ray Lewis than watch soemone run, or jog, or pedal, or row, or whatever for a very, very, very long time.

The second is impressive to those of us who understand the dedication that such a sport takes, but Americans want muscle car races, not hydro-electric distance events…

It is the nature of our culture…

My butt has spoken.

[/quote]

In general, a great post coach…

That wasn’t that hard to do…

We are back on topic and your point makese sense.

In my original post I simply gave the example of two endurance teams. One that ran 3 miles and one that ran 6 miles. The one that ran 6 miles trained less and was faster than the one that ran 3. It was an error on part of the leadership on the team. To me, there just doesn’t appear to be any reason for the shorter distance endurance team to train longer. Yes it is different if you get down to sprinting, but its still endurance at 3 miles.

I think the issue we have is the definition of training. I think of training as something beyond ground balls and pop-flies. That is not to say that those are easy or that they shouldn’t be done, but 4+ hours of training grounders is a lot different then 4+ hours of heavy lifting. However, including sport specific drills, in the equation, would make sense.

I agree with the lack of interest in endurance events. Most people don’t know why Lance Armstrong is great, just know that he won some race and he beat cancer. That, however, doesn’t make the participants, gay, weak, or inferior to other athletes. In addition, television choices are not indicative of amazement. I’m sure many Americans find the Boston Marathoners amazing… they wouldn’t watch it on TV… but they still find them amazing.

Your above post makes sense and had you been able to remove the weak, inferior, uneducated references it would have been great. By precedent, I wasn’t expecting you to have a post that could leave those out as every other reply never addressed my points but merely my athletic choice.

You have great knowledge and background in the field; it’d be a shame to let your ego destroy your professionalism and mask your apparent knowledge of training principles.

32

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Your above post makes sense and had you been able to remove the weak, inferior, uneducated references it would have been great. By precedent, I wasn’t expecting you to have a post that could leave those out as every other reply never addressed my points but merely my athletic choice.
[/quote]

You’re first post to him on this thread said that he was talking out of his ass. What kind of response did you expect?

It’s obvious this guy has years and years of experience and wrote detailed explanations of exactly why pro baseball players could train 8 hours a day and then proceeded to give a schedule of what that training looked like. What was your response in your following posts? That training anyone for 8 hours a day is utterly ridiculous.

I’m sorry, but you came across as a know-it-all whose drawn from his experience in tri-athalons and used that as the blueprint for all other sports training. I can see why the coach got frustrated with you and your ridiculous posts.

33

[quote]randman wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
Your above post makes sense and had you been able to remove the weak, inferior, uneducated references it would have been great. By precedent, I wasn’t expecting you to have a post that could leave those out as every other reply never addressed my points but merely my athletic choice.

You’re first post to him on this thread said that he was talking out of his ass. What kind of response did you expect?

It’s obvious this guy has years and years of experience and wrote detailed explanations of exactly why pro baseball players could train 8 hours a day and then proceeded to give a schedule of what that training looked like. What was your response in your following posts? That training anyone for 8 hours a day is utterly ridiculous.[/quote]

The point of the post was that 8 hours of day is USUALLY inefficient. I interpreted his post as saying that it is impossible to train for baseball without 8 hours of free time. Which is not the case. You and I both know that you can train perfectly fine for a sport without 8 hours a day of training and 600,000 in coaches. My responses in my following posts were nearly refuting his attacks at triathlon instead of defending the need for 8 hours of training. Again, the point of the thread.

[quote]

I’m sorry, but you came across as a know-it-all whose drawn from his experience in tri-athalons and used that as the blueprint for all other sports training. I can see why the coach got frustrated with you and your ridiculous posts.[/quote]

I never drew my experience 100% for triathlons. I was simply giving an obvious incident that preached the effectiveness of purposeful and efficient training. Too many coaches are focus on time rather than quality. My interpretation was that there was a neccessity to train for 8 hours. There isn’t. If its your job, then you have the time… fine. Using professional athletes is a fallacy in itself. That is their job… they have all that time. But people don’t get drafted by 8 hours of training… they get drafted from skill. When they get to the majors they may train for 8 hours… but they didn’t train for 8 hours their entire life…

Again… I stand by my original post… 8
hours is not neccessary. If you have it… great… but you dont need it. Dedicate time to training and go 100% and you might find you need a lot less time than you think.

34

Tri~

I appreciate your professional counseling.

Your original post actually said nothing of any time period… it merely stated how great you were at your sport compared to all of the other people who train for longer than you…

You must study pretty hard to have a full academic scholarship and such poor recall…

The thread is athletes 4+ hours of training… nobody ever said anything about 8 hours…

My list of possible expenses had a single trainer listed… all the other options were to maintain a simple lifestyle so the sport could be fully focused on… stress-free life has its rewards.

My attack was towards a young, uneducated, inexperienced endurance athlete whose sport is extremely demanding on the cardiovascular and musculoskeletal systems… but lack the extreme skill development and power needs of most team sports.

While your comment was pertinent to most all sports similar to your own, the demands of sports that include power and skill are extraordinarily different.

So, like I stated in my previous posts: whenever I get questions involving extreme endurance, I will defer to you. You obviously seem to think you have expertise in that area. Whether you do or not no one knows, but I am trusting, so what the heck.

But, since your knowledge of power sports is obviously very limited and tainted by media hype, please refrain from picking fights with those of us who do…

Good luck in your training, and you can count me as one of the 17 people who will be watching you in 2012… I really do watch all of the competitions, power and endurance.

Some of us admire all sports… even if we have a personal hierarchy… heck, I am not sure I can drive as far as you run / bike / swim…

So there is no reason to have a chip on your shoulder.

: )

Good luck Tri.

Coach JR

35

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Tri~

I appreciate your professional counseling.

Your original post actually said nothing of any time period… it merely stated how great you were at your sport compared to all of the other people who train for longer than you…
[/quote]

Just trying to point out the irony of athletics at a sub-par D1 university. Which is probably very different then any university athletes you would be exposed to… seeing as they don’t have specified strength coaches (no sarcasm)

My workload is pretty demanding. I just finished up so the brain is on relax. Just sleep, eat, and train for the summer

I was throwing it out of proportion. Some athletes do, depending on your definition, train for 8 hours.

Something we all strive for

I’ll take that as a need to work harder.

To which your experience speaks (no sarcasm). I think we got caught up in two different sides of the topic. In the case of endurance athletes one might agree that training way beyond the length of the even is useless. In the case of sprinters and power athletes, what appears to be your forte, a 20 second workout would be useless. The extra time (beyond event length) would make sense.

I like to think I have my share of knowledge. I shall do the same for you when in your expertise

Juice was a cheap jab. But at that moment tempting. All is fair in love and war

I respect that.

Before training, I could barely sleep for 8 hours :wink:

[quote]

So there is no reason to have a chip on your shoulder.

: )

Good luck Tri.

Coach JR[/quote]

Take it easy Coach. Much respect.

36

Lads lads lads…
Deep breath, stop arguing. We’re all missing the point here.

The origional question posed merely asked about the time athletes take to “train” per day. Can we concive 4hrs+?
The answer is yes.

Primarily i felt a number of people only counted “intense training” as training when first reading the question that instigated this post. This is clearly not so. Before we get confused over terminology here, training is a specific activity that encompasses more than repping out or puking up after intervals etc etc etc.
Active recovery is training, its not intense but still invaluable to some so therefore maybe we need to look outside certian parameters (ie Just the gym) when we decide what “training” is.

A couple of examples regarding time taken to train: -

Ok a sport in its infancy but MMA athletes train up to 3 times per day. This may include a skill session in a standing martial art (boxing), a session in a ground based art and a conditioning session. Throw in warm ups cool downs and stretches and you have a long day there. This is a sport with a high degree of skill in which the athletes compete for a total of 25 minutes tops (using the UFC as an example). Here we have an athlete that trains for a long time but competes for a relatively short time.

More at home to trig is the cyclist. Some stages of a tour de france ride are up to 6hrs+ - surely its not uncommon to train for this long either if the event demands it?

Regarding skill - im no cyclist, swimmer and i cant run for shit but these are skilfull activites. There is a lot more involved than just being a set of lungs peforming a continous skill again and again. Technique is involved in all three elements and the individuals interpretation of these technique is the skill - the point is these athletes practise leg kick, arm drive breathing etc day in day out so it looks easily dismissable. A baseball player would look ungainly on a cycle, to compare skills between two sports by dismissing one doesnt really answer the question.

Instead of looking for a mind boggling summation to piss on everyones bonfire its a simpl answer really - athletes can and do train for 4hrs + per day depending on their sport’s needs and the individual themselves.

37

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
If I can stay up until 4am this morning, I will turn on ESPN 8 and see if I can see your “Championship”.
[/quote]

The Ocho!!!

38

Wanted to say that I have put up tri numbers in his weights and coachs reply up on board at the gym, to me its about working with people and getting them to a mind set to work their best and asking 110%, tri numbers are motivating for the kids who train at our gym as well as coachs reply, its about people doing their best.

  Coachs reply was just the glimpse of what is required to perform at the pro level of sport, it is very rare to have that insight as the general level of strength coaching or revelant info in  Aus, is not to the stanard of the USA, I feel that he only way is to hold yourself to a global stanard and that is the mindset that we like to have in our training group. 

     We may be slow and weak and some very fast and strong in comparsion but in effort if you give that 110% and you can change your physical and mental mindset, perhaps 100% then to me that speaks more than some gentic freak who has achieved that level and then is willing to take it easy.

   A lot of the young men/women that have trained have got out of difficult social situations and have moved on to some type of pro-sport here or have gone to the services and have achieved highly there,(thanks to that evil russian).

 Keep the info coming, you never know one day on your baseball or American football field or at the Ironman in Hawaii, you may come across someone you may have helped and motivated them to achieve their personal best.
39

That is what it is all about.

110%.

A few months ago, in one of my posts, I said the following… “As long as you set your goals and you are working to achieve them, no one can bash you.” One month later a guy on this thread quoted me for saying that. Something like that is a great experience.

Stuff like this motivates me as well. We are all doubted and all given that “tough love”… no one tosses it out better than a veteran coach.

I can say that in the past 4 workouts since the start of this discussion, I have trained much harder. Its all one more reason to give it your best.

110%