[quote]ChrisPowers wrote:
Not meant to be an insult; just the reality of the matter. You can believe as you wish, but don’t act condescending toward those of us who demand scientific rigor simply because we’re not willing to make the leap to believing that for which there is no proof by definition.[/quote]
Hmm, it’s been my observation that condescension flies from both athiests and believers. Not all of them, or even most of them, thankfully. It’s a very ugly thing.
[quote]ChrisPowers wrote:
What wisdom would I be belying if I didn’t demonstrate the wisdom to allow for the possibility that I’m wrong?
[/quote]
good point.
i guess its just another thing that goes to show that a philosophy can never be comprehensive.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
For as much as I defend my faith - I have as much of a problem with organized religion as most of you god forsaken hell bent atheists.
[/quote]
Rainjack, what the hell is up with you?? You always have to be so offensive to minorities! Can’t you see that these labels hurt us deeply? We prefer things like “Jehovah-impaired” or “Heathen-American”. That’s the proper way to address people like us. Please, try to be more considerate in the future. M’kay?
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Okay, I’ve got a question for the rest of my heathen heretic asshole pals out there in cyberspace…
Let’s say that some rich wacko came up to you and said something to the effect of, “Here’s a butt-load of money. Now sign this paper in your blood to give me your immortal soul.”
Would you do it? I sure as hell would. Why not?[/quote]
What would you do if he offered you a butt load of money to take a butt load?
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
What would you do if he offered you a butt load of money to take a butt load?[/quote]
That’s something else entirely, bro. Uh… you’re not propositioning me, are ya? Because I’m flattered and all, but… you know.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
That’s something else entirely, bro. Uh… you’re not propositioning me, are ya? Because I’m flattered and all, but… you know.
[/quote]
Some might consider that to be selling your soul. Assuming no physical pain and no long term uh damage (which should prove that its not me) would there be a difference from your initial scenario or are some things “just wrong”?
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Oh, and I will never PROVE that there’s no soul.
well, i CAN prove there is no such thing as a soul.
the burden of proof is on those who propose the idea. if they can’t prove it then it doesn’t exist.
has the existence of the soul been proven?
nope.
i rest my case.[/quote]
Is that so? If some guy in the middle ages comes up with the idea that there exists in space an astronomical phenomenon that sucks in light, does it not exist simply because he can’t provide proof. If later a scientist comes along and presents proof that such phenomenon do exist, does this act of discovery bring black holes into existence?
What do you define as proof?
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Some might consider that to be selling your soul. Assuming no physical pain and no long term uh damage (which should prove that its not me) would there be a difference from your initial scenario or are some things “just wrong”?
[/quote]
What we’re talking about here, gayness aside, is whether or not I would enjoy it or get something out of it, right? The answer is no. Maybe you’re good-looking and whatnot, but I just choose to not go that way sexually. I have some friends that do, and they might take you up on it if you’re interested… I’m not too shy to play matchmaker once in a while. PM me, and I’ll give you their email addresses. Nobody has to know. 
[quote]Swift wrote:
Is that so? If some guy in the middle ages comes up with the idea that there exists in space an astronomical phenomenon that sucks in light, does it not exist simply because he can’t provide proof. If later a scientist comes along and presents proof that such phenomenon do exist, does this act of discovery bring black holes into existence?
What do you define as proof? [/quote]
But that’s just the thing here, swift. A soul (let’s pretend that there is some immortal piece of yourself stuck in there somewhere) would be something supernatural (unlike a black hole), and not provable by any natural means. When you bring something like this to folks like me who don’t believe in the supernatural, then we tend to say bullshit. What this question really is determining is whether or not you are superstitious. So far, I’ve seen one good “no” response to this question from ramses that didn’t bring superstition into play.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Okay, I’ve got a question for the rest of my heathen heretic asshole pals out there in cyberspace…
Let’s say that some rich wacko came up to you and said something to the effect of, “Here’s a butt-load of money. Now sign this paper in your blood to give me your immortal soul.”
Would you do it? I sure as hell would. Why not?[/quote]
Sure.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Let’s say that some rich wacko came up to you and said something to the effect of “Here’s a butt-load of money. Now sign this paper in your blood to give me your immortal soul.”
So when cash is involved, all of a sudden you have a soul?
How much money does it cost for you to have a soul? [/quote]
Who claimed that athiests claim they have no soul? I’d make no such remark.
Worse yet, you’re a conservative!
kidding with you…
[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
Who claimed that athiests claim they have no soul? I’d make no such remark.
[/quote]
I said that I have no soul. So did a bunch of the other atheists, too. I see it as something metaphorical to use when writing poetry to get in some girl’s pants. I don’t think that there exists some spiritual part of myself that lives forever, do you?
[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
Who claimed that athiests claim they have no soul? I’d make no such remark.
[/quote]
???
[quote]Swift wrote:
Is that so? If some guy in the middle ages comes up with the idea that there exists in space an astronomical phenomenon that sucks in light, does it not exist simply because he can’t provide proof. If later a scientist comes along and presents proof that such phenomenon do exist, does this act of discovery bring black holes into existence?
What do you define as proof? [/quote]
of course it doesn’t exist…as far as others are concerned. he has experiential “proof” (belief), but it would be silly of him to go spreading his belief to others without any accepted forms of “proof”.
many people don’t realize that science and scientific advances and discoveries are at least half the time beliefs before they ever take a provable form or application.
concerning the soul, many people act like it is proven or that proof is unneccesary. believe me, everything is provable, just not proven.
the soul is not proven, yet people believe in it. that’s fine.
many of these same people act like it is proven, tho, and they spread their beliefs like they are proof.
besides, the only good and acceptable reason to impose beliefs onto others is for the enhancement of life, yet i think human history and the contemporary human condition has demonstrated the detriment of life by oppression of beliefs.
in a nutshell, if you’re gonna tell me what to believe then it better be proven or have enhanced your life…and lets hope you tell me which one it is.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Right Side Up wrote:
Who claimed that athiests claim they have no soul? I’d make no such remark.
???[/quote]
there’s actually many different breeds of atheists.
im atheist, yet i ponder on many supernatural and spiritual things. some of these ponderings are very, very strong too. i just don’t waste my time putting real value into them (other than entertainment) because impractical beliefs don’t enhance quality of life.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I said that I have no soul. So did a bunch of the other atheists, too. I see it as something metaphorical to use when writing poetry to get in some girl’s pants.
[/quote]
sweety…do you believe in soulmates?
(flutter, flutter…ziiiiiiip)
Thank you God, for your healing gift of monotheistic religion.
Is that good enough for ya, wufwugy?
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
I don’t think that there exists some spiritual part of myself that lives forever, do you?
[/quote]
i’ve pondered that i and everything in existence are one and the same and my identity is lost after i die and i reincarnate to a new identity and all the identities will only return to the universal conciousness when i have awoken from my slumber and find out that i am the universal conciousness and i was all those identities and i loved them all so much i decide to fall asleep again and experience dreams all over again.
the joy of pondering things like that are that its very interesting as well as an expression of the game and joy of life and the unneccesity of figuring it all out.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
sweety…do you believe in soulmates?
(flutter, flutter…ziiiiiiip)[/quote]
You do know what a lothario is, dontcha? Poetry works, buddy. It doesn’t hurt to actually be honest about what you’re saying, either. This world is full of metaphor if you look for it.
No not pleasure. I’m asking how taking A LOT OF MONEY for it is any different than for signing a piece of paper? (assuming no physical harm)