Atheism-o-Phobia

[cueball]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )

[pat]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
2) Why didn’t the Jews write about Jesus? Why didn’t passing Buddhists or any Romans? Answer me that.
[/quote]

[quote] DoubleDuce wrote:
they did. There are accounts, far more than you�??�??�??�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢??d actually expect given his stature.
[/quote]

Please present one of these that’s Contemporaneous.[/quote]

Sure.
Mathew
Mark
Luke
John

All Jewish first hand accounts.

[/quote]

When I say Jews, I meant the Jewish establishment, not Jews becoming Christians. Give me other accounts beyond these.

BTW, now prove that they were actually the authors of those books

[/quote]

Okay, if he was the Lord, wouldn’t you expect all Jewish first hand accounts to be of Jews becoming “christian”. Though none of those mentioned ever considered themselves anything but Jewish. And those sources are more vetted and verified for accuracy that any other writings of the time. The early church did a great job weeding out the sources with questionable authenticity.

So, how bout those alexander the great sources?

Oh, and why exactly is it that you get to set up all these special hoops that have to be jumped through to prove jesus?[/quote]

If Jesus truly was the lord, why didn’t all Jews become followers of Christ?

The reason I’m asking for more direct evidence is this is a big claim. If you look at all the things he claimed (save us from sin), all the things he did (miracles), and what happened to him when he died and resurrected, how could you be anything but suspicious of these things?

If you saw someone do these today, you would accept them on face value?

As far as the Alexander source, I’m not a Alexander the Great historian. I just know the basics.[/quote]

Religion and faith should never be taken at face value. Only week people do such things. It must be tested and retested. If it cannot stand up to scrutiny, what it’s based on ain’t worth shit.[/quote]

pat, then how can you believe the miracle stories? Like feeding all the people with a single fish?
[/quote]

I have been privy to miracles first hand. Second, I am not terribly concerned about them, that’s not what it’s about. There are other ways to test. There are things in the scripture that do not require you to be there for you to experience their truth. Are the lessons true? Is the morality expressed true? Are prophecies turned out to be true? If so, then is it not possible that other things are true? You could never know for certain with out being there, but we cannot be there.

There are other miracles that you are over looking. How the hell did a poor carpenter, who may not have even been a good carpenter become the most famous person to ever have stepped foot one Earth? How did this one guy drastically alter the course of history? Jesus ministered for less than 3 years and we submitted to a humiliating death to shut him up. Yet from that the world changed and gave birth to the worlds biggest religion and changed the history of the world permanently. Jesus said his followers would do greater things than him, case in point. Even atheists follow the Christian calender and generally don’t work on the sabbath.
How did his followers, most of which were subjected to death and torture, multiply their numbers so drastically, that in a very short period of time the empire that tried to crush the movement, adopted it as it’s own official religion…The fact the Christianity is here at all is a miracle after all the attempts to crush it. From each attempt, it just got more powerful…This leads me to believe that there is something more than just week minded people believing in a fairy tale. Week minded people cannot accomplish.

[BackInAction]

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).

[BackInAction]

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
2) Why didn’t the Jews write about Jesus? Why didn’t passing Buddhists or any Romans? Answer me that.
[/quote]

[quote] DoubleDuce wrote:
they did. There are accounts, far more than you�??�??�??�??�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢??d actually expect given his stature.
[/quote]

Please present one of these that’s Contemporaneous.[/quote]

Sure.
Mathew
Mark
Luke
John

All Jewish first hand accounts.

[/quote]

When I say Jews, I meant the Jewish establishment, not Jews becoming Christians. Give me other accounts beyond these.

BTW, now prove that they were actually the authors of those books

[/quote]

Okay, if he was the Lord, wouldn’t you expect all Jewish first hand accounts to be of Jews becoming “christian”. Though none of those mentioned ever considered themselves anything but Jewish. And those sources are more vetted and verified for accuracy that any other writings of the time. The early church did a great job weeding out the sources with questionable authenticity.

So, how bout those alexander the great sources?

Oh, and why exactly is it that you get to set up all these special hoops that have to be jumped through to prove jesus?[/quote]

If Jesus truly was the lord, why didn’t all Jews become followers of Christ?

The reason I’m asking for more direct evidence is this is a big claim. If you look at all the things he claimed (save us from sin), all the things he did (miracles), and what happened to him when he died and resurrected, how could you be anything but suspicious of these things?

If you saw someone do these today, you would accept them on face value?

As far as the Alexander source, I’m not a Alexander the Great historian. I just know the basics.[/quote]

Religion and faith should never be taken at face value. Only week people do such things. It must be tested and retested. If it cannot stand up to scrutiny, what it’s based on ain’t worth shit.[/quote]

pat, then how can you believe the miracle stories? Like feeding all the people with a single fish?
[/quote]

I have been privy to miracles first hand. Second, I am not terribly concerned about them, that’s not what it’s about. There are other ways to test. There are things in the scripture that do not require you to be there for you to experience their truth. Are the lessons true? Is the morality expressed true? Are prophecies turned out to be true? If so, then is it not possible that other things are true? You could never know for certain with out being there, but we cannot be there.

There are other miracles that you are over looking. How the hell did a poor carpenter, who may not have even been a good carpenter become the most famous person to ever have stepped foot one Earth? How did this one guy drastically alter the course of history? Jesus ministered for less than 3 years and we submitted to a humiliating death to shut him up. Yet from that the world changed and gave birth to the worlds biggest religion and changed the history of the world permanently. Jesus said his followers would do greater things than him, case in point. Even atheists follow the Christian calender and generally don’t work on the sabbath.
How did his followers, most of which were subjected to death and torture, multiply their numbers so drastically, that in a very short period of time the empire that tried to crush the movement, adopted it as it’s own official religion…The fact the Christianity is here at all is a miracle after all the attempts to crush it. From each attempt, it just got more powerful…This leads me to believe that there is something more than just week minded people believing in a fairy tale. Week minded people cannot accomplish. [/quote]

Oh, I totally agree. Jesus Christ, whether fictional or not, miracle worker or not, radically altered the world. I think if Jesus did exist, then he was a good person and one people should learn from. It is stunning like you’re saying how famous he got from where he was before.

The miracles, I don’t believe in. The divinity of Jesus, not so much either. But the message that he brought was an important one. I wish more people would focus on the loving aspect of the message rather than being saved. I would rather people focus on this life, which we know is here, rather than one that might not exist.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

No, I would not believe it. HOWEVER, as I’ve explicitly shown, your hypothetical in no way relates to the present argument.

[cueball]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).
[/quote]

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

Oh, I totally agree. Jesus Christ, whether fictional or not, miracle worker or not, radically altered the world. I think if Jesus did exist, then he was a good person and one people should learn from. It is stunning like you’re saying how famous he got from where he was before.

The miracles, I don’t believe in. The divinity of Jesus, not so much either. But the message that he brought was an important one. I wish more people would focus on the loving aspect of the message rather than being saved. I would rather people focus on this life, which we know is here, rather than one that might not exist.[/quote]

I have a similar view. But that is no reason to trash the historical document found in the bible.

[BackInAction]

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).
[/quote]

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor. [/quote]

Why do men have nipples?

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor.

Why do men have nipples?[/quote]

Not even close to what was asked. And further with the inherent fallacy that we couldn’t have been created with nipples.

Maybe because We’d look funny in bathing suits otherwise.

[BackInAction]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor.

Why do men have nipples?[/quote]

Not even close to what was asked. And further with the inherent fallacy that we couldn’t have been created with nipples.

Maybe because We’d look funny in bathing suits otherwise.[/quote]

Oh sorry, I thought we were supposed to ask random questions still

[pat]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).
[/quote]

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor. [/quote]

Why do men have nipples?[/quote]

So you have a mark as to where to put the bar, duh…
It’s been fun, gotta run I’ll catch up later regarding miracles divinity and the like.

I think we’re putting the cart before the horse, though. Do you believe in God in some form? Do you believe there exists something that creates and yet was not an cannot be created or acted upon by the creation?

[cueball]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).
[/quote]

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor. [/quote]

Why do men have nipples?[/quote]

Oh sorry. I was under the assumption this was a serious discussion. Are you just trying to be cute, or dodging the progression of this discussion because you can’t provide what I’ve asked for? Which is proof of something you believe to be true. As you have done with us.

[BackInAction]

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).
[/quote]

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor. [/quote]

Why do men have nipples?[/quote]

So you have a mark as to where to put the bar, duh…
It’s been fun, gotta run I’ll catch up later regarding miracles divinity and the like.

I think we’re putting the cart before the horse, though. Do you believe in God in some form? Do you believe there exists something that creates and yet was not an cannot be created or acted upon by the creation?
[/quote]

LOL, good one!

Honestly, in regards to the creator, I’m not sure.

Do I believe in evolution? -Yes, it has scientific evidence that supports it.
Do I believe in the big bang? -Yes, further scientific evidence supports it.
Do I believe in the God of the Bible? -No way in hell. That God is very selfish and evil. It also seems too limiting.
Do I believe in a creator of the universe? -Perhaps, but from my point of view, I have no way of knowing.

[BackInAction]

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).
[/quote]

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor. [/quote]

Why do men have nipples?[/quote]

Oh sorry. I was under the assumption this was a serious discussion. Are you just trying to be cute, or dodging the progression of this discussion because you can’t provide what I’ve asked for? Which is proof of something you believe to be true. As you have done with us.[/quote]

Sorry sorry. Honestly, I don’t want to discuss evolution very much. Evolution is separate from religious belief in my mind.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

Honestly, in regards to the creator, I’m not sure.

Do I believe in evolution? -Yes, it has scientific evidence that supports it.
Do I believe in the big bang? -Yes, further scientific evidence supports it.
Do I believe in the God of the Bible? -No way in hell. That God is very selfish and evil. It also seems too limiting.
Do I believe in a creator of the universe? -Perhaps, but from my point of view, I have no way of knowing.[/quote]

This is a better line of discussion. But let me pose a question. What makes you believe that, if there is a creator, he is unselfish, good, or all powerful?

[BackInAction]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

Honestly, in regards to the creator, I’m not sure.

Do I believe in evolution? -Yes, it has scientific evidence that supports it.
Do I believe in the big bang? -Yes, further scientific evidence supports it.
Do I believe in the God of the Bible? -No way in hell. That God is very selfish and evil. It also seems too limiting.
Do I believe in a creator of the universe? -Perhaps, but from my point of view, I have no way of knowing.[/quote]

This is a better line of discussion. But let me pose a question. What makes you believe that, if there is a creator, he is unselfish, good, or all powerful?[/quote]

Well, to answer that question, one must define what a creator is? Only living organisms are selfish and good/evil.

[BackInAction]

In my own viewpoint, whatever started the universe (if it started), is not concerned with my petty problems. If there are things like super massive black holes, stars, and billions of worlds, why would it matter if I’m late on my taxes? This I don’t believe in.

So the only type of creator I would believe in would be obviously a powerful one (as they created the universe).

But the truth is, we know so so little.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

Honestly, in regards to the creator, I’m not sure.

Do I believe in evolution? -Yes, it has scientific evidence that supports it.
Do I believe in the big bang? -Yes, further scientific evidence supports it.
Do I believe in the God of the Bible? -No way in hell. That God is very selfish and evil. It also seems too limiting.
Do I believe in a creator of the universe? -Perhaps, but from my point of view, I have no way of knowing.[/quote]

This is a better line of discussion. But let me pose a question. What makes you believe that, if there is a creator, he is unselfish, good, or all powerful?[/quote]

Well, to answer that question, one must define what a creator is? Only living organisms are selfish and good/evil.
[/quote]

I would even say as far as we know only man is. But if there is a creator, he created all the evil. Why couldn’t he be if not evil then at least not good?

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
In my own viewpoint, whatever started the universe (if it started), is not concerned with my petty problems. If there are things like super massive black holes, stars, and billions of worlds, why would it matter if I’m late on my taxes? This I don’t believe in.

[/quote]
If he has the capacity for such amazing things, why not also something small, like the capacity to care about you?

[quote]

So the only type of creator I would believe in would be obviously a powerful one (as they created the universe).

But the truth is, we know so so little.[/quote]

Powerful in this universe maybe. But does that mean all knowing or all powerful?

Whose to say god isn’t a kid in his form of existence, and we’re his science experiment? He might not even be bright in his terms.

Why is he the only of his kind?

[cueball]

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical
[/quote]

Do you believe humans evolved from apes? : )[/quote]

sigh I’m sad you don’t want to answer my question

But we evolved from a common ancestor, yes. Obviously, you don’t believe that for some reason (in lieu of scientific research).
[/quote]

I’m also saddened you don’t want to answer my question.

Please provide the scientific proof that shows, without presumption or gap filling, we evolved from a common ancestor. [/quote]

Why do men have nipples?[/quote]

Oh sorry. I was under the assumption this was a serious discussion. Are you just trying to be cute, or dodging the progression of this discussion because you can’t provide what I’ve asked for? Which is proof of something you believe to be true. As you have done with us.[/quote]

Sorry sorry. Honestly, I don’t want to discuss evolution very much. Evolution is separate from religious belief in my mind. [/quote]

I didn’t either. I just wanted to point out you believe in something that only has evidence that supports it, but doesn’t prove it. Why is this acceptable for you, but not for us? I’ll pick it up Monday. Have a good weekend!