Atheism-o-Phobia

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
341

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:
Other than the planets in our solar system, everything on there was a form of star. But possibility of life on other planets doesn’t change the point of my question, nor does it change any of my beliefs. I’d still like you to explain your insignificant comment. Do you feel that just because something is small, it’s insignificant?[/quote]

In answering your question: small things can be very important or useless. It depends.[/quote]

Ok. So following what it seems you are suggesting, do you feel that since humans are small, compared to the universe, they are insignificant or “useless”?

342

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. So following what it seems you are suggesting, do you feel that since humans are small, compared to the universe, they are insignificant or “useless”?[/quote]

In answering that, let me ask you this? What do you humans do that makes us significant compared to planets, stars, etc?

343

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

None of those are contemporaneous…[/quote]

They are much closer than the rest of ancient history.

So, you don’t believe anything about ancient history I take it.[/quote]

There’s a difference between believing in a war occurring than someone coming back from the dead…

Big claims require big evidence.[/quote]

Ah, but in ancient historical writing miraculous things happen all the time.

344

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. So following what it seems you are suggesting, do you feel that since humans are small, compared to the universe, they are insignificant or “useless”?[/quote]

In answering that, let me ask you this? What do you humans do that makes us significant compared to planets, stars, etc?[/quote]

I doubt, therefore I am. Self is about the only thing you can’t doubt away. makes it kinda unique.

345

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
2) Why didn’t the Jews write about Jesus? Why didn’t passing Buddhists or any Romans? Answer me that.
[/quote]

[quote] DoubleDuce wrote:
they did. There are accounts, far more than you�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢??d actually expect given his stature.
[/quote]

Please present one of these that’s Contemporaneous.[/quote]

Sure.
Mathew
Mark
Luke
John

All Jewish first hand accounts.

[/quote]

When I say Jews, I meant the Jewish establishment, not Jews becoming Christians. Give me other accounts beyond these.

BTW, now prove that they were actually the authors of those books :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Okay, if he was the Lord, wouldn’t you expect all Jewish first hand accounts to be of Jews becoming “christian”. Though none of those mentioned ever considered themselves anything but Jewish. And those sources are more vetted and verified for accuracy that any other writings of the time. The early church did a great job weeding out the sources with questionable authenticity.

So, how bout those alexander the great sources?

Oh, and why exactly is it that you get to set up all these special hoops that have to be jumped through to prove jesus?[/quote]

If Jesus truly was the lord, why didn’t all Jews become followers of Christ?

The reason I’m asking for more direct evidence is this is a big claim. If you look at all the things he claimed (save us from sin), all the things he did (miracles), and what happened to him when he died and resurrected, how could you be anything but suspicious of these things?

If you saw someone do these today, you would accept them on face value?

As far as the Alexander source, I’m not a Alexander the Great historian. I just know the basics.

346

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

None of those are contemporaneous…[/quote]

They are much closer than the rest of ancient history.

So, you don’t believe anything about ancient history I take it.[/quote]

There’s a difference between believing in a war occurring than someone coming back from the dead…

Big claims require big evidence.[/quote]

Ah, but in ancient historical writing miraculous things happen all the time.[/quote]

That doesn’t mean that they are true.

347

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. So following what it seems you are suggesting, do you feel that since humans are small, compared to the universe, they are insignificant or “useless”?[/quote]

In answering that, let me ask you this? What do you humans do that makes us significant compared to planets, stars, etc?[/quote]

I doubt, therefore I am. Self is about the only thing you can’t doubt away. makes it kinda unique.[/quote]

Answer my question.

348

Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?

349

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. So following what it seems you are suggesting, do you feel that since humans are small, compared to the universe, they are insignificant or “useless”?[/quote]

In answering that, let me ask you this? What do you humans do that makes us significant compared to planets, stars, etc?[/quote]

We have the ability to consciously go against our own nature. We have the ability to reason and not only ask the big questions but actively seek answers. We are definitely unique among nature.

350

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

If Jesus truly was the lord, why didn’t all Jews become followers of Christ?

The reason I’m asking for more direct evidence is this is a big claim. If you look at all the things he claimed (save us from sin), all the things he did (miracles), and what happened to him when he died and resurrected, how could you be anything but suspicious of these things?

If you saw someone do these today, you would accept them on face value?

As far as the Alexander source, I’m not a Alexander the Great historian. I just know the basics.[/quote]

There are none. I’m telling you this for a fact. There are 2 guys of biased origin writing hundreds of years after the fact about supposed first hand accounts they had access to and whose earliest known manuscripts are from some 600 years (if I remember correctly) after Alexander died.

351

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
2) Why didn’t the Jews write about Jesus? Why didn’t passing Buddhists or any Romans? Answer me that.
[/quote]

[quote] DoubleDuce wrote:
they did. There are accounts, far more than you�??�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢??d actually expect given his stature.
[/quote]

Please present one of these that’s Contemporaneous.[/quote]

Sure.
Mathew
Mark
Luke
John

All Jewish first hand accounts.

[/quote]

When I say Jews, I meant the Jewish establishment, not Jews becoming Christians. Give me other accounts beyond these.

BTW, now prove that they were actually the authors of those books :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Okay, if he was the Lord, wouldn’t you expect all Jewish first hand accounts to be of Jews becoming “christian”. Though none of those mentioned ever considered themselves anything but Jewish. And those sources are more vetted and verified for accuracy that any other writings of the time. The early church did a great job weeding out the sources with questionable authenticity.

So, how bout those alexander the great sources?

Oh, and why exactly is it that you get to set up all these special hoops that have to be jumped through to prove jesus?[/quote]

If Jesus truly was the lord, why didn’t all Jews become followers of Christ?

The reason I’m asking for more direct evidence is this is a big claim. If you look at all the things he claimed (save us from sin), all the things he did (miracles), and what happened to him when he died and resurrected, how could you be anything but suspicious of these things?

If you saw someone do these today, you would accept them on face value?

As far as the Alexander source, I’m not a Alexander the Great historian. I just know the basics.[/quote]

Same reason many folks don’t believe, he did not act the way they thought he should. They, like most people want God to be obvious. He never has been, but that hasn’t stopped people from wanting it.

352

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
2) Why didn’t the Jews write about Jesus? Why didn’t passing Buddhists or any Romans? Answer me that.
[/quote]

[quote] DoubleDuce wrote:
they did. There are accounts, far more than you�??�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢??d actually expect given his stature.
[/quote]

Please present one of these that’s Contemporaneous.[/quote]

Sure.
Mathew
Mark
Luke
John

All Jewish first hand accounts.

[/quote]

When I say Jews, I meant the Jewish establishment, not Jews becoming Christians. Give me other accounts beyond these.

BTW, now prove that they were actually the authors of those books :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Okay, if he was the Lord, wouldn’t you expect all Jewish first hand accounts to be of Jews becoming “christian”. Though none of those mentioned ever considered themselves anything but Jewish. And those sources are more vetted and verified for accuracy that any other writings of the time. The early church did a great job weeding out the sources with questionable authenticity.

So, how bout those alexander the great sources?

Oh, and why exactly is it that you get to set up all these special hoops that have to be jumped through to prove jesus?[/quote]

If Jesus truly was the lord, why didn’t all Jews become followers of Christ?

The reason I’m asking for more direct evidence is this is a big claim. If you look at all the things he claimed (save us from sin), all the things he did (miracles), and what happened to him when he died and resurrected, how could you be anything but suspicious of these things?

If you saw someone do these today, you would accept them on face value?

As far as the Alexander source, I’m not a Alexander the Great historian. I just know the basics.[/quote]

Religion and faith should never be taken at face value. Only week people do such things. It must be tested and retested. If it cannot stand up to scrutiny, what it’s based on ain’t worth shit.

353

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
2) Why didn’t the Jews write about Jesus? Why didn’t passing Buddhists or any Romans? Answer me that.
[/quote]

[quote] DoubleDuce wrote:
they did. There are accounts, far more than you�??�??�??�??�??�??�??�?�¢??d actually expect given his stature.
[/quote]

Please present one of these that’s Contemporaneous.[/quote]

Sure.
Mathew
Mark
Luke
John

All Jewish first hand accounts.

[/quote]

When I say Jews, I meant the Jewish establishment, not Jews becoming Christians. Give me other accounts beyond these.

BTW, now prove that they were actually the authors of those books :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Okay, if he was the Lord, wouldn’t you expect all Jewish first hand accounts to be of Jews becoming “christian”. Though none of those mentioned ever considered themselves anything but Jewish. And those sources are more vetted and verified for accuracy that any other writings of the time. The early church did a great job weeding out the sources with questionable authenticity.

So, how bout those alexander the great sources?

Oh, and why exactly is it that you get to set up all these special hoops that have to be jumped through to prove jesus?[/quote]

If Jesus truly was the lord, why didn’t all Jews become followers of Christ?

The reason I’m asking for more direct evidence is this is a big claim. If you look at all the things he claimed (save us from sin), all the things he did (miracles), and what happened to him when he died and resurrected, how could you be anything but suspicious of these things?

If you saw someone do these today, you would accept them on face value?

As far as the Alexander source, I’m not a Alexander the Great historian. I just know the basics.[/quote]

Religion and faith should never be taken at face value. Only week people do such things. It must be tested and retested. If it cannot stand up to scrutiny, what it’s based on ain’t worth shit.[/quote]

pat, then how can you believe the miracle stories? Like feeding all the people with a single fish?

354

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

What are you claiming? Are you claiming to be a fireball shooter, a super hero, or the messiah?

Of course we could never prove you didn’t do what you just said. So therefore, I weigh under 200 lbs and can squat 1500lbs for reps, bench 1000lbs for reps, and compress water with my asshole. Do you believe me?
Is there a point to this exercise?

355

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

None of those are contemporaneous…[/quote]

They are much closer than the rest of ancient history.

So, you don’t believe anything about ancient history I take it.[/quote]

There’s a difference between believing in a war occurring than someone coming back from the dead…

Big claims require big evidence.[/quote]

And there’s plenty. Just look around…Google works too. You don’t really want us to do it for you and present it on a silver platter do you?

356

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.

357

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

Ok. So following what it seems you are suggesting, do you feel that since humans are small, compared to the universe, they are insignificant or “useless”?[/quote]

In answering that, let me ask you this? What do you humans do that makes us significant compared to planets, stars, etc?[/quote]

Well, you actually didn’t answer anything, so how about it? Are we insignificant and useless just because we are small, relatively speaking.

Also, thanks to DD and Pat for their contribution to your question. I think they summed it up well. Compared to the Sun, yes, I am small and insignificant in size. However, as DD and Pat have alluded to, the Sun cannot contemplate, explore, or investigate it’s existence as we can. We know the Sun is there, it doesn’t even know Mercury is the closest planet to it.

358

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

What are you claiming? Are you claiming to be a fireball shooter, a super hero, or the messiah?

Of course we could never prove you didn’t do what you just said. So therefore, I weigh under 200 lbs and can squat 1500lbs for reps, bench 1000lbs for reps, and compress water with my asshole. Do you believe me?
Is there a point to this exercise?
[/quote]

The point of this exercise is to show you that without evidence from MULTIPLE, UNINTERESTED SOURCES who ACTUALLY WITNESSED THE EVENT, one should not believe that the event occurred.

Following that reasoning, no, I don’t believe you and your 1500 lbs squats.

359

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

What are you claiming? Are you claiming to be a fireball shooter, a super hero, or the messiah?

Of course we could never prove you didn’t do what you just said. So therefore, I weigh under 200 lbs and can squat 1500lbs for reps, bench 1000lbs for reps, and compress water with my asshole. Do you believe me?
Is there a point to this exercise?
[/quote]

The point of this exercise is to show you that without evidence from MULTIPLE, UNINTERESTED SOURCES who ACTUALLY WITNESSED THE EVENT, one should not believe that the event occurred.

Following that reasoning, no, I don’t believe you and your 1500 lbs squats.
[/quote]

Alright guys, throw away all your history books.

The only reason people ever wrote things down is because they weren’t uninterested.

360

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Guys, I just shot fireballs out of my eyes. The only ones around me that saw this were my coworkers that I’m friends with. They told me they believe me, but will write about it 20 years later so I don’t lose my job (apparently, are company doesn’t like fireball shooting employees).

If you read a copy of my close employees reports 20 years from now, will you believe me? Why or why not?[/quote]

Uh, wrong again. There were lots of first hand accounts around immediately after jesus died. You know, Christianity spread during that time right?

The 20 years later are the earliest manuscript copies we have of the texts. And if you knew anything you’d realize copies of the texts that near the actual events are unheard of in ancient history.

Let me see if I can break this down for you. 20 year after jesus died is the earliest print of a biblical text we have, NOT when it was written and NOT when it was available. As in we have actual paper with actual writing from just after jesus died. That is an amazing feat. The more amazing thing is that it verified present text as un-altered. Which is un heard of. Ancient historical documents pretty much always change when copied and translated, but amazingly not the bible.[/quote]

Answer my hypothetical :slight_smile: