Many assisted lifters are assisted lifters because they spent years and years of training and eating right to max out their natural abilities. Why would someone who has walked that walk suddenly become incapable of giving advice once they become assisted? Do you think they forget everything they learned through years of experience in the gym the second the needle pierces the skin?
4 Likes
My guess is most users never walked that walk.
Not to say some don’t walk the walk then use, but it seems they are the minority.
Are you talking about internet people, or people you’ve met in real life? Or are you really just guessing?
I’m unassisted, but most of the principles I apply to my training has come from lifters who have used gear.
I know many assisted lifters in real life, and only one of them is a person whose opinion and advice I wouldn’t value. And that poor dumb soul still benches 400 and squats 500. The rest are serious lifters with serious competitive accomplishments.
3 Likes
It’s easy. If you are not a noob, then you should be qualified enough to judge by the quality of the advice given. If you are a noob, then you are not qualified enough to make an educated guess.
2 Likes
Unless you are:
- Training with actual seasoned powerlifters or
- Born with above average muscularity
this is not a good mindset to have for constant improvement over the years.
3 Likes
I think if you see a pretty average looking dude with average lifts who uses drugs to be able to attain said mediocrity, you’re absolutely right in avoiding that person’s advice. But anyone who is seeing real success, drugs or not, likely follows important training and diet principles that are applicable regardless of steroid usage. I’ve said many times on this site in the past, that I spent MUCH MUCH MUCH more time as a natural lifter than geared. I’ve only been ‘on’ for less than 3 years. I spent 10+ lifting naturally. So I can tell you pretty definitively that I know what works for geared users and what works for natural lifters. And it turns out, it’s essentially the same thing. I lift about 4 days per week, I prioritize the OHP, bench press, squat and deadlift in my training, I generally work up to a heavy set, followed by several back off sets for volume, and then I move to basic assistance work for things like back and arms. This is EXACTLY what I did before I was on gear. The same shit works for everyone. The difference is the results you get. I was really lean naturally. Every picture I’ve ever taken of myself, you can see abs. Now, I have vascularity in my quads and abs. I benched 300, squatted 400, and deadlifted 500 naturally. Now I’ve addded around 100 lbs (some lifts more, some less) to each of those lifts. I look a little better, I lift a little better, but I train and eat the same.
6 Likes
I’ve met users in real life who could care less about diet, training program, sleep, etc and still surpass their goals. They compete. Their workout is whatever they like to do. The part they usually leave out when everyone is asking advice and patting them on the back is that they’re assisted.
I’ve also met plenty of non users who push themselves and make many sacrifices to get that 1-2% increase. They still hit their goals but it’s a long slow grind. Been lifting 20 years and I love the long slow grind.
Not trying to hate on anyone at all, this is T-Nation for God’s sake. But it’s a question is love to have many answers to.
Who are they? Be curious to see how successful they have been.
I don’t think naming names on that particular subject is a good idea for anyone to do online, unless it is your own name or someone who has named themselves already.
You ruin all my fun.
I just tire of hearing about these unicorns.
1 Like
Oh don’t get me wrong, someone naming names would have been most entertaining. I just started thinking about certain people I know, and what their reactions might be if I were to announce to the world that they used steroids.
It seemed sensible for me get out in front of that for the rest of the internet.
Same here actually.
I’d just straight up show pictures but like what twojarslave said…
That being said though, I guess I can still describe them. Imagine guys who’ve physiques comparable to this
at the age of 20-21. Most of them only started training at the age of 16/17. They go around spewing bro science such as…
eating clean is the absolute and only way
it doesn’t matter how much weight you move, it’s all about feeling the muscle
it’s all hard work and I’ll never touch steroids, I know that’s a lie for a fact cause I know their supplier and they entire stack
you must be in the gym at least 5-6 days a week or you ain’t a serious lifter
you must squat high or you’ll hurt your knees/lower back
but yeah, basically… I sincerely do believe that steroids can be magical when it comes to stupid people. I’m not anti steroids, I’m just amazed at the amount of stupidity coming from most users I know. How do you get on gear and barely squat 3 plates for reps, for example.
I suppose I don’t see how that particular choice affects the quality of a person’s advice. Are you somehow more able to sniff out dumb bullshit if the person saying it is on steroids?
Anyone with a physique like that is doing a whole lot of things right. And you’re telling us that you know people who look like that but, in your opinion, should not be listened to?
3 Likes
Well, I wouldn’t say you’re entirely wrong. If you’re 20/21 and got on gear at the age of 17 with zero to no foundation. It goes without saying that I’ll be rather skeptical about the advice you’re spewing out, especially when I know for a fact that some of said advice is utter bullshit. That and when they charge people for personal training using their “hard earned results” as bait to lure them in, it just rubs me the wrong way.
You can do “reckless steroid use at a young age with no foundation” right too.
Yes, as ridiculous as it sounds, yes. I sincerely do believe that time under the bar ‘aka’ experience reigns supreme.
PS: I read what I wrote and some of it might’ve came off as passive aggressive, which I assure you, I’m not trying to be.
To be clear, you think it’s possible to train poorly, eat poorly, and basically do everything wrong and still develop that physique in 3-4 years?
You say you know what their drug “stack” is. Could you list it? I’m sure there are many people who are interested in finding out what it is.
2 Likes
Regardless of topic, I always evaluate any advice I receive, along with most other information that comes my way. Speaking personally, I don’t really give a shit about the advice-giver’s self-perception. I’ll listen to it and evaluate it based on MY judgement, which has nothing to do with how qualified the person giving it thinks he or she is.
If I wanted to be an underwear model, I’d probably listen to the guy who is presently modeling underwear. That doesn’t mean I need to hang on his every word, but you are a fool if you don’t think you can learn something from someone like that.
2 Likes
Not so much all of the above mistakes but train/eat/everything in a subpar manner.
As for this, I don’t know what every single of them takes, duh. But for one of them I heard some pretty in depth stuff such as…
test e, 1000mg a week going up to 1500mg by the 5th/6th week?
dbol, 70mg daily
tren e, 750mg a week
winstrol, 60mg daily
from what I recall, this is just the first 8-ish weeks of their cycle, didn’t bother getting into what they do for the rest of the cycle
and clen is pretty much a staple for all of them when they’re cutting but I’m guessing that’s quite normal?
Keep in mind that they’re pretty much all barely out of their teens and only just into their early 20s.
Oh I definitely think that there’s something to learn from pretty much everyone. Be it “you should do this” or “you shouldn’t do this”. That being said though, I’m probably more irked by the fact that people value their advice more simply because they’re more jacked(duh) and they charge money for it when in no way they should.
1 Like
This is why I ask for how these folks are placing in these alleged contests.
If everyone in these contests are using and these guys are placing well, we draw some interesting conclusions.
Are we to conclude that EVERYONE at these contests don’t know how to train? Are we to conclude that, along with using drugs, these guys that don’t know how to train are also genetically blessed to the point that they can beat people that are on drugs AND training smart/hard? Are we to conclude that maybe these guys DO know how to train, and perhaps WE are the ones with the messed up paradigms? Etc.
2 Likes
Why does this irk you? Other people value all kinds of shit. It rarely seems to affect me one way or the other.
We conclude that they know how to cheat!
It is not fair at all! If I was 18 and took steroids, I’d sure show 'em!
Why don’t you tell us what steroids you’re taking?
Let me tell you about this guy I heard about named Eddie Hall…
1 Like