At Least 21 Killed at V. Tech

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
obatiger11 wrote:
I am losing faith in the goodness of mankind. Why would someone commit such an awful act? Maybe their should be a law that if you kill someone, you and both your parents will be executed. And if you don’t have parents, then your next two closest relatives will be executed. EXTREME-HELL YES!!! But if you are plotting to kill someone, then it may cause you to think twice about committing your own family to a death sentence.

I really, really hope you’re not serious.[/quote]

Very Babylonian of you.

82

It seems like the media has started a feeding frenzy.

83

“Students of Liviu Librescu, 76, a holocaust survivor who was an engineering science and mathematics lecturer at Virginia Tech for 20 years, sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he blocked the gunman’s way and saved their lives, said the son, Joe.”

Some people recognize evil faster then others. A lot of people probably owe their lives to Prof. Librescu, a 78 year old man. You’ll probably hear about more stories like this in the coming days.

I can’t imagine the horror these kids had to endure. I don’t know if you can ever prevent it completely unless you run the school like a prison.

That prick who did the shooting was a madman. You can’t stop a single madman bent on murder every time. In TX back in the 60’s a lone gunman killed almost as many people with a bolt action hunting rifle.

I really don’t know what to think about this. The only observation I can make is that in all these shootings the most effective course of action seems to be a quick response, whether it be by brave individuals at the scene or the police. During the Amish shooting in PA. last year the Pa. State Police essentially crashed the building almost immediately and probably saved a lot of lives. I don’t know what the lessons learned are but it seems getting inside the shooters “killing zone” quick and fast disrupts the incident and seems to save lives.

RIP Prof. Lebrescu and all of the victims.

84

[quote]orion wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
AdamC wrote:
steadfastred wrote:
Its a shame that students and faculty are barred from pleading the 2nd on colleges in Virginia. The death toll could have been much lower, still a tragedy; we know now how many can die when people are prevented self defense:

32 innocent lives…

…And one room temperature wack-job who killed himself at the end.

Maybe I don’t get it because i’m British, but that point of view seems wacky to me.

Isn’t the fact that guns are so poorly controlled the reason some wacko can walk in to a school and fire a weapon and kill so many poor people?

Rather than arming everyone to the teeth shouldn’t you be trying to stop people getting hold of weapons so easily. Maybe it’s too late for that, i don’t know.

All i know is, I wouldn’t know where to get a gun and I have absolutely no fear of anyone pulling a gun on me.

I’m not for strict gun regulation, but there’s no evidence that being armed for ‘self-defense’ saves any lives [except perhaps in an indiivual burglary situation and even there the evidence is questionable]. And logic dictates otherwise. When was the last time crossfire saved any lives?

If logic dictates otherwise, why do these shootings never happen at gun shows?

[/quote]

Because lunatic, anti-social misfit teenagers typically don’t attend gunshows. They do attend high school and college can easily kill 20 people before the small percentage of those who would actually carry guns–amidst the vast majority who don’t–would attempt to respond and contain the lunatic, killing more people in the process.

85

[quote]PGA wrote:
I didn’t know when someone is murdered on campus you just continue on like nothing happened.

I’m sorry, if someone is murdered on my campus I want to know immediately, not two fucking hours later.

These idiots in charge left the entire campus vulnerable to what happened. “We thought it was an isolated incident.” Who gives a flying fuck! SOMEONE WAS MURDERED ON CAMPUS! If I knew or heard of someone being killed on campus and no suspect was in custody I’M FUCKING GONE. It’s truly sad that the scumbag mother fuckers in charge, whoever the fuck it was, decided to keep a MURDER quite when no suspect was in custody. Bullshit to the “Email was the best way” line they gave the media. Hit the fucking fire alarms, get everyone outside and make the announcement that classes are canceled, ya know because someone was just MURDERED! If they “thought” the killer had “fled” then there would be no reason to fear sending the kids back to their dorms.

There was a complete breakdown in the protection and safety of the public and innocent people paid for it with their lives. Fucking assholes!!! I hope they, the idiots who tried to keep it hush hush, rot in fucking hell along with the cocksucker scumbag mother fucking killer.[/quote]

It’s a campus that covers 2,600 acres and has 25,000 students and faculty and another maybe 3,000 to 5,000 visitors on campus at any given time.

Your well informed opinion is the police should have “hit the fire alarms,get everyone outside and make the announcement that classes are cancelled”???

Because a murder took place somewhere on that 2,600 acres? You think 25,000 - 30,000 people should be standing around somewhere discussing how cool it is to have class/work cancelled because a murder took place somewhere on campus?

The residents of the dorm where the shooting took place WERE informed immediately because the police went door to door there. Standard stuff.

Somehow the police should lock down 2,600 acres? How the fuck would someone do that? Please share.

If you live in a small town with 25,000 people and a murder occurrs in your town - should the police evacuate or lockdown the town immediately?

How about just a little realism before you start screaming about how “they” fucked up this or that?

In the real world - how would they IMMEDIATELY notify 26,000 students that a murder occurred somewhere on campus? Remember, the shooting might have taken place at 7:15 but that doesn’t mean the cops have any idea what they have by 7:30 ok? Or maybe you would feel better served if an email went out within 5 minutes of a crime occurring? Who would send that un-informed email? What exactly would it say?

Maybe a phone call to all 26,000 students dorm rooms? Forget that there is no “instant notification” capability for that - what would the call say? That there has been some kind of something somewhere on campus and it might be that someone got shot?

Your response is pretty short on reasoning and heavy on hysterical screetching. I have noticed several past posts from you that are anti police - and that’s fine, but please…hysterically screaming about a “complete breakdown in the protection and safety of the public”?

You clearly don’t have a clue.

It’s a tragedy. It’s insane. It’s tough to comprehend. My heart goes out to all the victims and their families.

86

[quote]AdamC wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
A The lawfully armed patron has not been charged, pending the investigation regarding his use of deadly force. Under the facts that have been reported, I’d be very surprised if he is charged. Gee, how do you suppose he have been treated under British law?

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Gunfight+at+bar+leaves+one+wounded%2C+another+in+custody&articleId=858db55b-f7c2-4dd2-ba58-5f99976fee2b

But that situation is FAR less likely to happen in Britain. The only people who carry guns over here are gangs. And they tend to stick to killing each other.

If guns aren’t the problem then what is? Their are more murders there than here aren’t there?

[/quote]

hey, dummy! college student TEND not kill one another at all. that’s why this is ‘shocking’. it’s not a shock when gang members shoot one another.

if guns aren’t a problem then what is, huh? PEOPLE! defective, troubled, ill-adjusted PEOPLE are the problem. they always have been.

cars kill more people every year than guns. should we outlaw cars? pretty fucking easy to get them.

more people live in the U.S. than live in the U.K. so there will be more everything here. more gun deaths. more auto deaths. more good food. more money. more (and better looking) women. more fun. more freedom. more everything. and you’re missing it. because your a fuck-head. with bad teeth.

87

"Gun crime is extremely rare in Britain, and handguns are completely illegal. The ban is so strictly enforced that Britain’s Olympic pistol shooting team is barred from practicing in its own country.

Britain’s 46 homicides involving firearms was the lowest total since the late 1980s. New York City, with 8 million people compared to 53 million in England and Wales, recorded at least 579 homicides last year."

  • Associated Press
88

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGA wrote:
I didn’t know when someone is murdered on campus you just continue on like nothing happened.

I’m sorry, if someone is murdered on my campus I want to know immediately, not two fucking hours later.

These idiots in charge left the entire campus vulnerable to what happened. “We thought it was an isolated incident.” Who gives a flying fuck! SOMEONE WAS MURDERED ON CAMPUS! If I knew or heard of someone being killed on campus and no suspect was in custody I’M FUCKING GONE. It’s truly sad that the scumbag mother fuckers in charge, whoever the fuck it was, decided to keep a MURDER quite when no suspect was in custody. Bullshit to the “Email was the best way” line they gave the media. Hit the fucking fire alarms, get everyone outside and make the announcement that classes are canceled, ya know because someone was just MURDERED! If they “thought” the killer had “fled” then there would be no reason to fear sending the kids back to their dorms.

There was a complete breakdown in the protection and safety of the public and innocent people paid for it with their lives. Fucking assholes!!! I hope they, the idiots who tried to keep it hush hush, rot in fucking hell along with the cocksucker scumbag mother fucking killer.

It wasn’t a breakdown. It reads like someone trying to spin the event before the news got wind of it. That would be the ONLY reason to handle something like that this way. It backfired on them. I doubt they will admit that, however.[/quote]

And there is the obligatory “it’s all a cop conspiracy” post from x…

89

[quote]Professor X wrote:
P-DOG wrote:
Ok I’ll say it, I want to know what nationality this M-f’er is? Where he is from? How long has he been in this country? Is he here legally?

Why the fudge hasn’t the FBI released this info yet? Probably because they are trying to wait until tempers calm, when everyone is mourning, and the flowers are on the graves to soften the blow!

Why does this matter that much to you? If whatever his nationality is happened to be someone you were already biased against, would this fuel more hatred towards that entire group of people?[/quote]

I do, however, agree with x on this one. It makes no difference at all except to fuel a bias that already exists.

90

[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
obatiger11 wrote:

violent pleasantries

Do you know what impulsive means? Did you understand my post? I didn’t understand yours. What about color-TV??[/quote]

Yes, I know what impulsive means, but I am not the type of impulsive person who would kill someone. Then read it again.

91

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
All foreigners who enter this country should have to provide documentary evidence of mental stability — letters from local officials showing no criminal record for one.

We are FAR too lenient in who we let into this country. A bunch of Somali Muslims in Minnesota voted a Muslim into our Congress. In 15 or 20 years, this dude will have seniority to sit on powerful committees. Where will his loyalties lie?[/quote]

Typical hysterical xenophobic bullshit from Headdouchebag. I think we should make the people who teach our kids provide documentary evidence of mental stability as well.

And, to put this into a little perspective: one suicidal maniac killing 32 innocent people is a pretty slow day in Bahgdad. Try to imagine the effect on our national psyche if this happened every day, day after day.

92

[quote]orion wrote:
If logic dictates otherwise, why do these shootings never happen at gun shows?
[/quote]

Because there are lots of people with guns around.

If you have a gun (and sufficient ammunition) and you’re up against 100 people who don’t, you’re clearly at an advantage.

If you have a gun, and everyone else does too… you’ve only got the advantage of surprise.

Normally when you shoot at people, you don’t want for them to be able to shoot back.

93

[quote]david dunne wrote:
Blah, blah, blah, babble, babble, babble…
[/quote]

Not once did I mention cops as being responsible. So keep your instantaneous cop defense out of this thread. I made sure I didn’t mention cops because I didn’t want the likes of you to vomit on this thread.

There were some pretty GIGANTIC assumptions made on the part of those in charge and it resulted in not letting the school know there was a MURDERER on the loose. There was a MURDER and there was no suspect in custody on a…are you ready for it…COLLEGE CAMPUS. That’s right, lets just assume he or she left and no longer poses a threat.

How the fuck do you assume that the killer just left? That’s beyond ridiculous.

94

What is wrong with people that our immediate thoughts are “who is to blame?”, especially considering the ACTUAL KILLER is dead. Well now that he’s dead someone has to have done something wrong right? If we can’t yell at the killer let’s blame the cops, no wait it’s the university president. No wait…

It’s never enough to just say he went wacko for no reason, and everyone did as much as they could. It’s not fair to the people involved for us to use the benefit of hindsight. It never has been fair, and it never will be.

Think about this for a minute- What is the exact procedure YOU are to follow when two people are murdered? Can you answer that? What would you do? Chances are someone would tell you it was wrong if it benefits their argument.

95

[quote]PGA wrote:
How the fuck do you assume that the killer just left? That’s beyond ridiculous.[/quote]

We have the phrase “killer on the loose” for a reason. The phrase isn’t “killer still hanging around”… :slight_smile:

96

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Think about this for a minute- What is the exact procedure YOU are to follow when two people are murdered? Can you answer that? What would you do? Chances are someone would tell you it was wrong if it benefits their argument.[/quote]

If someone is murdered and the killer hasn’t been caught, in an environment such as a college campus I want to be notified. I’m GONE from that campus immediately or back in my dorm room with my door bolted shut.

This guy was an obvious loon and there was no way to stop his killings. If he wanted to, just as anybody can, kill someone it’s not that hard from a physical stand point. There was no chance in hell of preventing the first 2 murders from happening.

97

[quote]PGA wrote:
david dunne wrote:
Blah, blah, blah, babble, babble, babble…

Not once did I mention cops as being responsible. So keep your instantaneous cop defense out of this thread. I made sure I didn’t mention cops because I didn’t want the likes of you to vomit on this thread.

There were some pretty GIGANTIC assumptions made on the part of those in charge and it resulted in not letting the school know there was a MURDERER on the loose. There was a MURDER and there was no suspect in custody on a…are you ready for it…COLLEGE CAMPUS. That’s right, lets just assume he or she left and no longer poses a threat.

How the fuck do you assume that the killer just left? That’s beyond ridiculous.[/quote]

No instantaneous cop defense here pal.
Still waiting for the answers from you though.
Should the police “lock down” a campus of 2,600 acres if a murder happens somewhere on it?
For how long? A day? A week?
Should a town do the same?
How would you have instantly notified everyone pga? How would you have gotten word to the 14,000 students commuting in that day?

Couldn’t the shooter have STILL walked on campus two hours later and shot a bunch of people? Of course he could have. He could have used his keycard to walk into a different dorm…or the green area between the buildings…or a different class…or a student lounge …or wherever.

They assumed the killer left…because he had left genius. He wasn’t there at the scene. There was no telling where he was-so should we “evacuate” the surrounding 2,600 acres until they find out where he is?

Get fucking serious.

Did NYC just evacuate 10 square blocks for shootings that happened last night? Philadelphia maybe?

98

[quote]tme wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
All foreigners who enter this country should have to provide documentary evidence of mental stability — letters from local officials showing no criminal record for one.

We are FAR too lenient in who we let into this country. A bunch of Somali Muslims in Minnesota voted a Muslim into our Congress. In 15 or 20 years, this dude will have seniority to sit on powerful committees. Where will his loyalties lie?

Typical hysterical xenophobic bullshit from Headdouchebag. I think we should make the people who teach our kids provide documentary evidence of mental stability as well.

And, to put this into a little perspective: one suicidal maniac killing 32 innocent people is a pretty slow day in Bahgdad. Try to imagine the effect on our national psyche if this happened every day, day after day.

[/quote]

How is wanting to keep maniacs out of our country xenophobic?

It wouldn’t work against all maniacs though, since you’re already here.

99

[quote]PGA wrote:

This guy was an obvious loon and there was no way to stop his killings. If he wanted to, just as anybody can, kill someone it’s not that hard from a physical stand point. There was no chance in hell of preventing the first 2 murders from happening.[/quote]

You are correct there. In fact there wasn’t much chance of preventing the second round of shootings either. He was determined to shoot the place up-he brought more ammo and another gun and chains for the doors apparently.

If it wasn’t the classroom it would have been a student lounge or open grassy area or wherever.

I understand outrage over this situation. I think most people are.

I disagree that the admin should have SOMEHOW instantly notified everyone, including the 14,000 commuting students, that a murder had happened and it was unsafe.

If the murder happened 1 block from campus - do they evacuate the entire school then? Do they “lock down” ther entire place then?

The campus cops reacted and responded to the second shooting very quickly according to the reports I saw. They breached the chained doors and as they went in the shooting stopped. The report said the cops were in the building when the shooting stopped bc he offed himself. They didn’t wait outside. They went in according to that report.

100

[quote]
A bunch of Somali Muslims in Minnesota voted a Muslim into our Congress. In 15 or 20 years, this dude will have seniority to sit on powerful committees. Where will his loyalties lie?[/quote]

I know!! Can you imagine what would happen if a bunch of evangelical Christians voted some Born Again former coke-head into the White House!! That would probably be a disaster… where would his loyalties lie!!