Dear All,
Have been following a 5-3-1-D schedule for about 1-2 years. Its hard to give an exact ‘start’ because I always used weight training to supplement my other training. Worst of all, I didn’t
My goal for this year is to focus principally on the weights using a 7 week 5-3-1-5-3-1-D cycle. My first cycle went well and I am now looking to refine some of the assistance work. My plan is to use the standard 531 cycle, with FSL on the first cycle; up/down ladder on the second; TM for max reps; Jokers for 4th cycle. (28 weeks). My assistance lifts will change each cycle.
So my question is - how much assistance is too much, how much is too little?
My current Bench day template is: Bench 531, Bench 531-Extra; 3x5 Bent over row; 5x10 floor press super-setted with 5x10 Kettlebell row. 3x10 Ab wheel roll out.
My current Squat day template is: Squat 531, Squat 531-Extra; 3x5 Straight Leg Deadlift; 5x10 Overhead Squat super-setted with 5x10 Pull ups.
I know that the answer is principally ‘do what feels right’, but some days I feel like I can do more, others like I can do less. What is the ‘average’ to aim for?
Just put all your focus and effort into continuously setting rep PRs. If you do that for a while, the “how must assistance work is too much” question will just sort of iron itself out. And if you’re really confused, just do one of the templates from the original 5/3/1.
Personally I like using Jokers and FSL in the same session. The kicker is you absolutely have to concentrate 100% of your effort on the PR set. Then you use the FSLs & Jokers to supplement the main lifts if an only if you feel there will be a benefit to those sets, which has to be intuitive on your part.
Of course it will change from session to session - it’s called life. That’s why you only map out the main lift.
But what you don’t fuck with is this:
PR work
joker work
FSL work
That is what is most important. Because you are already worried about assistance tells me that your focus is not where it should be. And please get rid of OH Masturbators.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Personally I like using Jokers and FSL in the same session. The kicker is you absolutely have to concentrate 100% of your effort on the PR set. Then you use the FSLs & Jokers to supplement the main lifts if an only if you feel there will be a benefit to those sets, which has to be intuitive on your part. [/quote]
This guy speaks truth. It’s hard work and not easy to do for many people. But it will result in strength.
I have a rough template for how I plan assitance and usually write it down the night before. I.e today was squats my plan was 5/3/1 sets for the 3 week then I pick a two leg quad focused move like front squat, leg press etc. I picked paused front squats, fairly light for 3x5, then did Bulgarian split squats and finally a couple sets of calves.
My assistance goes from most important to least. After each new excercise a tend to access and see how im feeling, etc. SO next week I might get my PR set done, finish my fronts and say fuck bulgarians and calves because I have to get to work. Also plenty of times for upper body I do my 3 warm up and 3 work sets on the main lift, superset with chins and then bolt. This is probaby my favourite thing to do for upper body.
Simply go to each exercise and ask why do I have this in here? Back to my example with squat day, I do pause fronts because I have trouble right out of the hole currently. I do some single leg work to keep my legs balanced after several knee surgeries, and I do calves for the same reason( damage down into the calf from knee injury, needs some mid attention each week or Achilles tendon starts to ache). If you cant answer why am I doing this then get it out of the program
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Of course it will change from session to session - it’s called life. That’s why you only map out the main lift.
But what you don’t fuck with is this:
PR work
joker work
FSL work
That is what is most important. Because you are already worried about assistance tells me that your focus is not where it should be. And please get rid of OH Masturbators. [/quote]
Thanks for the advice (this goes for everyone else aswell).
I was principally going from the 28 week programme in the Beyond 5/3/1 book. I find that I get complacent/lazy after 4-5 weeks of something similar, so I liked the idea of FSL/UpDown/TM/Jokers for each cycle.
Some follow on questions:
Should I just swap to Jokers/FSL for every cycle?
Should I specifically ‘not programme’ the assistance and just try to fit some band work and 1-2 assistance lifts after each cycle?
Whats wrong with OHS? I admit that I started lifting through an interest in crossfit (well 300/Gymjones), but I find that they are great for training the hip position for normal squats, without putting too much weight on the knees.
Personally I do FSL downsets every session with bench and squat (and most times with OHP and DL). I only do jokers when you feel up to it (i.e. are having a good day, set PR, etc.). For example if I only get the required reps on the PR set I do not try a joker set, but I will go ahead a do a down set.
I usually program what assistance movements I will do, but not what weight I am using. For example I will plan to super-set bench press with DB rows. I do exactly 5/3/1 sets and reps with the bench and more or less go by feel with the DB rows.
As far as strength OHS is pretty much worthless. I think if can be fine as part of a warm-up or mobility work, but I would not count it as strength. Since Jim designed 5/3/1 to increase strength and Jim seems to by a fan of training economy I reason he thinks OHS is a complete waste of time. Unless you plan to Oly lift competitively and need to catch a snatch low I would not do OHS. I have tried OHS and gotten nothing out of them so I dropped them long ago. If you want another squatting movement I personally like front squats or BSS.
I’m taking a break from 5/3/1 just to mix things up mentally. I started 5/3/1 last year with the BBB template and gradually added more assistance until I was spending more time logging than working out probably. Right now I’m giving Chaos and Pain a go and I’m enjoying it so far.
A couple weeks in of heavy training 3-5 days a week and eating tons of meat and veggies and I benched for heavy triples, doubles, and eventually singles for 5 sets of 295lbs today. A couple weeks back 265 for 3 was a grind. Granted, I did 295x6 as a PR on bench a few months back during a bulk, but 15 lbs down with minimal carbs the past few days made 295 for singles feel great, especially because I was still feeling fresh but stopped because I threw my back out today putting a bunch of furniture together. I’m feeling lean and look like I’m keeping a decent amount of muscle despite a quick cut.
Bottom line is that sometimes less is more. Concentrate on your main lifts and feel out the rest. Personally I don’t like planning my assistance out too much. What happens if you’re feeling off or run down? Are you going to freak out because things aren’t going as planned? 99/1 rule, pay attention to the 99% (diet, sleep, progression on compounds), 1% (assistance, supps, etc) won’t suffer.