I know Jim says not to overanalyze assistance but I had a question. Here is my current goal, to be a very strong competitive powerlifter.
I am currently doing
work set
joker set
fsl 5x5
for the assistance I was going to go with wendler 6, but was wondering if it wouldn’t be a good idea to repeat the same exercises. For example I was going to do…
Press Day & Bench Day
Chins 2-3 sets
Dips 2-3 sets
Curls 2-3 sets
Would it be a wiser decision to pick different exercises for those days?
Thanks
Does it matter? is it on line with your goals?
You think someone will ask you about your curls at the next meet?
check out “Strength Phase” in Beyond. More in line with your goals since you are asking a question about 1% of the program.
How experienced are you?
140lbs
just got 455 deadlift in my competition
gym best of squat and bench are 320 and 220…been about a year since I’ve been specifically training for powerlifting, before i was doing basically bro splits
Dips do an efficient job of strengthening AND building upper body. As do chins, rows and curls.
Yes I was just wondering if there is any reason to avoid using those assistance on both days of overhead pressing and bench pressing. Or if it would be more beneficial to sub different exercises on the bench day
[quote]stevejones1991 wrote:
Yes I was just wondering if there is any reason to avoid using those assistance on both days of overhead pressing and bench pressing. Or if it would be more beneficial to sub different exercises on the bench day[/quote]
Try it for three months, then try it the another way for three months. In 6 months you’ll have all the answers you need.
That’s a solid triumvirate-y strength/size template overall, but since your main goal is powerlifting performance I would make it more PL specific. Your DL day is over abbed when there could be a squat movements and I would change OHP day’s secondary to another bench press. With all the FSL and Jokers plus all your other stuff, it’s a lot of volume and hopefully you can recover from it. That’s just me, but if those exercises build your lifts adequately then all the more power to you.
thanks forgot to add that instead of deadlifting first set last i will be replacing it with front squats using first set last guidelines. My deadlift is my best lift by far but my squat, not so much, so I thought a squat variant would be better, also I don’t do well with high volume deads
also although I know assistance is optional as amond other things I considered the third assistance exercise really optional meaning if I’m having a great day I will do it otherwise I would skip it
[quote]stevejones1991 wrote:
Here is what I was thinking
[/quote]
Please /thread/6132641/
If you do that template, drop the Jokers and FSL. They are not part of that template.
Doing 10x for three accessories, FSL and Jokers while improving your 5/3/1? Which book are you getting this from?
lol who knows anymore, 531 is more confusing then anything now, sure i’m not the only one who thinks this now…
first do jokers, now don’t
push + set til failure, no just set a pr and leave one in the tank
[quote]stevejones1991 wrote:
lol who knows anymore, 531 is more confusing then anything now, sure i’m not the only one who thinks this now…
first do jokers, now don’t
push + set til failure, no just set a pr and leave one in the tank
[/quote]
I’m trying to make it better and better. I won’t apologize for that. I never told people to push a set to failure - that must have been a ForumFruit that told you that. That has never, ever been part of the program.
The only change I recommended is that people do the final set and choose a goal PRIOR to the set. Thus is doesn’t have to be “all out”.
The problem with Jokers is that I thought people would be smart with them. I was wrong. I’ve written about 50 different variations the past two years - ALL of these have shown 100% what to do. Exact instructions. The problem is people ADD in shit; they do this, do that. Its confusing when things aren’t followed. That’s not my fault or the fault of the program.
I don’t know how much more direct I can be when I write “no substitutions are to be made to the program.” For example, I just finished the Forever BBB and there are explicit instructions on what to do and what NOT to do. As soon as Joe Biceps reads an article about doing Dick Curls, he adds them in and doesnt’t understand that everything has a price in a training program.
Hell, look at the BBB Challenge. It can’t be any more clear. Yet, there is some Pirate Clown on this forum that asks a million questions.
If you pick a variation of the program, do it as it has been written. 99% of these I’ve done myself and tweaked them. The other 1%, like the new challenge (Spinal Remains) is done by people I personally work with.
Guess what I’m saying is it’s hard to verify who to listen to besides you Jim if I have a question…my main question is would it be fine to have the current selection of assistance? Or should someone like myself who wants to work on getting the three lifts up not be doing that much volume I saw in another thread you said wendler6 was 2-3 exercises 2-3 sets which is what I did above…the end result being
Work sets
One other thing I was thinking was putting bench as the fsl on overhead press Fay and front squat on the Deadlift day for my goals of getting a bigger bench and squat,seems like my bench better responds to frequency
[quote]stevejones1991 wrote:
Guess what I’m saying is it’s hard to verify who to listen to besides you Jim if I have a question…my main question is would it be fine to have the current selection of assistance? Or should someone like myself who wants to work on getting the three lifts up not be doing that much volume I saw in another thread you said wendler6 was 2-3 exercises 2-3 sets which is what I did above…the end result being
Work sets
One other thing I was thinking was putting bench as the fsl on overhead press Fay and front squat on the Deadlift day for my goals of getting a bigger bench and squat,seems like my bench better responds to frequency[/quote]
Your assistance selection is fine - just remember this “If in doubt, you can never have too strong abs or low back”. I have found that the ESSENTIAL assistance movements are low back/ab work and rows/chins. No one ever complained when they can do 10 reps of back extensions with 225 on their back or that the could DB row (without straps) a 200 pound dumbbell for 5 sets of 15. Only good things can happen.
As for the FSL work - that is fine. Doing the bench FSL on Press day is fine. The front squat FSL on DL day is fine too. You are on the correct track. Please remember that very few smart people voice their opinion - the dumbest people are ALWAYS the loudest. Smart people are always too busy DOING. If you have a question about this program, there are only a handful of people that truly understand it. Be careful who you listen to.
Jim I really appreciate the response cleared up a lot for me…your book is the one I thank for my 455lbs Deadlift I just did in my first competition at 140lbs…it flew up like nothing…probably added 50+lbs with your program thanks again
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
[quote]stevejones1991 wrote:
Guess what I’m saying is it’s hard to verify who to listen to besides you Jim if I have a question…my main question is would it be fine to have the current selection of assistance? Or should someone like myself who wants to work on getting the three lifts up not be doing that much volume I saw in another thread you said wendler6 was 2-3 exercises 2-3 sets which is what I did above…the end result being
Work sets
One other thing I was thinking was putting bench as the fsl on overhead press Fay and front squat on the Deadlift day for my goals of getting a bigger bench and squat,seems like my bench better responds to frequency[/quote]
Your assistance selection is fine - just remember this “If in doubt, you can never have too strong abs or low back”. I have found that the ESSENTIAL assistance movements are low back/ab work and rows/chins. No one ever complained when they can do 10 reps of back extensions with 225 on their back or that the could DB row (without straps) a 200 pound dumbbell for 5 sets of 15. Only good things can happen.
As for the FSL work - that is fine. Doing the bench FSL on Press day is fine. The front squat FSL on DL day is fine too. You are on the correct track. Please remember that very few smart people voice their opinion - the dumbest people are ALWAYS the loudest. Smart people are always too busy DOING. If you have a question about this program, there are only a handful of people that truly understand it. Be careful who you listen to.
[/quote]
Hey Jim.
I’m Sanjay from India.
A big fan of your work as well as both books. Everything I learned about iron game can be attributed to you and Mark Rippetoe.
I have just started 5/3/1 BBB and completed my 2nd cycle.
I’m doing MP with BBB bench and Bench with BBB MP 5x10 style.
I have one question regarding the BBB assistance. Can I perform inclined press on military day in 5x10 method instead of bench press.
The reason for doing incline pressing is simple: I have never performed this lift before as I did Rip’s SS and Madcow 5x5. And a lot of internet coaches say it is important for upper chest growth.
Is it right? Should I do it? Will it affect my bench in any way? Also the heaviest dumbbells available in my gym are 100lbs which aren’t heavy enough for 15-18 reps. Should I increase the reps or can I perform BB row.
Thanks again…
[quote]devilsanjay03 wrote:
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
[quote]stevejones1991 wrote:
Guess what I’m saying is it’s hard to verify who to listen to besides you Jim if I have a question…my main question is would it be fine to have the current selection of assistance? Or should someone like myself who wants to work on getting the three lifts up not be doing that much volume I saw in another thread you said wendler6 was 2-3 exercises 2-3 sets which is what I did above…the end result being
Work sets
One other thing I was thinking was putting bench as the fsl on overhead press Fay and front squat on the Deadlift day for my goals of getting a bigger bench and squat,seems like my bench better responds to frequency[/quote]
Your assistance selection is fine - just remember this “If in doubt, you can never have too strong abs or low back”. I have found that the ESSENTIAL assistance movements are low back/ab work and rows/chins. No one ever complained when they can do 10 reps of back extensions with 225 on their back or that the could DB row (without straps) a 200 pound dumbbell for 5 sets of 15. Only good things can happen.
As for the FSL work - that is fine. Doing the bench FSL on Press day is fine. The front squat FSL on DL day is fine too. You are on the correct track. Please remember that very few smart people voice their opinion - the dumbest people are ALWAYS the loudest. Smart people are always too busy DOING. If you have a question about this program, there are only a handful of people that truly understand it. Be careful who you listen to.
[/quote]
Hey Jim.
I’m Sanjay from India.
A big fan of your work as well as both books. Everything I learned about iron game can be attributed to you and Mark Rippetoe.
I have just started 5/3/1 BBB and completed my 2nd cycle.
I’m doing MP with BBB bench and Bench with BBB MP 5x10 style.
I have one question regarding the BBB assistance. Can I perform inclined press on military day in 5x10 method instead of bench press.
The reason for doing incline pressing is simple: I have never performed this lift before as I did Rip’s SS and Madcow 5x5. And a lot of internet coaches say it is important for upper chest growth.
Is it right? Should I do it? Will it affect my bench in any way? Also the heaviest dumbbells available in my gym are 100lbs which aren’t heavy enough for 15-18 reps. Should I increase the reps or can I perform BB row.
Thanks again…[/quote]
Incline press is fine - this is stated in the book. However the 531 program is performance based and if you are using this program for a way to strap on “upper chest” muscles, you are in for a long and disappointing ride. However, if you are looking for what could be the beginning of your way to something more than human, this could be the first step. Real goals, discipline measured in years, mentally strong, etc. - things that have helped shape the foundation of the program. Might not be for you - might be. But “upper chest” is certainly not one of them. Seek something real.
