… with there high school classmates supervised by a bunch of 20 year olds making minnimum wage?
I dont have children so I am curious what the moms and dads on this site think.
I grew up in a ruff neighboorhood and been to some scary places. However I cant imagine letting my recent high school grad go to the caribeean without me. True at 18 they can decide for themselves but even at that age parents still have a strong influnce.
I doubt the girl thats gone missing had much street savy and worldly experience. This is not a criticism of her, fuck she just turned 18 she shouldnt be expected to have such experience yet. I know the US can be a dangerous place but at least here you know what to expect from law enforcement and the gov.
I hope something miraculous happens and she is found safe and sound but my experience of the world tells me shes dead…and that young inexperienced people should not travel to countries where there lack of experience and innocence can put them in harms way. Am I too paranoid?
[quote]Jersey5150 wrote:
… with there high school classmates supervised by a bunch of 20 year olds making minnimum wage?
I dont have children so I am curious what the moms and dads on this site think.
I grew up in a ruff neighboorhood and been to some scary places. However I cant imagine letting my recent high school grad go to the caribeean without me. True at 18 they can decide for themselves but even at that age parents still have a strong influnce.
I doubt the girl thats gone missing had much street savy and worldly experience. This is not a criticism of her, fuck she just turned 18 she shouldnt be expected to have such experience yet. I know the US can be a dangerous place but at least here you know what to expect from law enforcement and the gov.
I hope something miraculous happens and she is found safe and sound but my experience of the world tells me shes dead…and that young inexperienced people should not travel to countries where there lack of experience and innocence can put them in harms way. Am I too paranoid?
[/quote]
Better question, how did those security guards get called in with no witnesses and no evidence, but the guys truly responsible were allowed to go free and their car wasn’t even searched until nearly a week after this happened?
As far as your topic, your kids can lose their lives on the way to school in the morning. She had sex with one of the guys that killed her. She wasn’t innocent and got herself into trouble. If you want to help prevent that, teach your kids some self control and responsibility. Needless to say, I don’t have any kids of my own right now, but I do hope I am able to instill some level of self respect even when they are long moved out of the house when I do.
This type of incident could have happened in any bar in any country. How many times has a woman, young or old, left a bar with a stranger or a group of strangeres and wound up missing or molested? It could happen in your own town on any given Friday night. Just because it happened in Aruba doesn’t mean that it’s any less safe than the good old US of A.
I have been to that Carlos and Charlie’s several times and I can tell you there are scarier places where I live in the US.
I feel for the family of that poor young girl, but the media is just hyping the incident because it happened outside of the US. I’ll bet that on that same day at least a dozen women in the US disappeared under similarly suspect circumstances.
You guys are right about the circumstances and all. It’s sad. In the last city I lived in this was a pretty common occurance. Sad to hear everytime, w/o a doubt.
It is suprising to me that this terrible incident has made so much noise. I’m from the South Texas Border of Laredo and Nuevo Laredo is right across the border.(Nuevo Laredo recently made international news because of a shoot out between federal agents and municipal police). About thirty people from the U.S. have gone missing over there within the last two years. These incidents have not made that much news.
Agreed. However, to apply that ‘protective’ rationale to your life, you’d need to expand it to every facet.
Would you stop driving to prevent dying in an auto accident?
Would you refuse to ride another Roller Coaster based on the simple fact that individuals have died in such rides?
Would you stop eating restaurant food based on the fact that many food-industry employees do not wash their hands, and are potentially spreading their viruses to you?
You could, but it wouldn’t be much of a life. The truth is, the very definition of being alive requires a level of risk.
The purpose of being alive is not to eliminate risk, although society’s made incredible advances in that direction, but to accept risk as a requirement to leading a full life.
The balance lies in being a mature individual who enjoys healthy risks, as opposed to being immature and taking dumb risks.
Coming from someone who lives in the Dutch caribbean…
I would NEVER let my kids go down here alone. Everyone pictures the caribbean islands like a postcard. Now… it can be… but in reality it isnt. There are a LOT of bad areas down here.
Also the police down here pretty much do as much or as little as they want, without any repercussions.
A few years ago on this island, a girl was almost raped. An American. The dutch police came in here and basically bossed everyone around, told them they’d handle it the way THEY wanted. Well, nothing got done and noboy was ever arrested. Ongoing thing here.
It isnt like the U.S. that much down here - especially if you live here. It’s more like the wild wild west in some ways! Either way a level head and a bit of street smarts still goes a long way just about anywhere.
[quote]Dan-Trev wrote:
It is suprising to me that this terrible incident has made so much noise. I’m from the South Texas Border of Laredo and Nuevo Laredo is right across the border.(Nuevo Laredo recently made international news because of a shoot out between federal agents and municipal police). About thirty people from the U.S. have gone missing over there within the last two years. These incidents have not made that much news.[/quote]
I don’t understand why her friends weren’t looking out for her. When you are that young and arent used to drinking, you stick together with some friends, and if someone was drunk and leaving with natives, you don’t let them.
Better question, how did those security guards get called in with no witnesses and no evidence, but the guys truly responsible were allowed to go free and their car wasn’t even searched until nearly a week after this happened? [/quote]
The guys responsible fingered the security guards. I know you are going to run with the race card, but these cops are just not prepared to handle a case like this. Rich white kids say they saw her with the guards, the gaurds get arrested. Basic Aruba police work.
[quote] She had sex with one of the guys that killed her. She wasn’t innocent and got herself into trouble.
[/quote]
Or she was raped by one of the guys that killed her.
Paying to send your kids out of the country so they can specifically do things that are illegal here is stupid. Sure kids can get into trouble here, but it’s easier to keep an eye on them here and most parents don’t give their kids hundreds or thousands (however much this trip cost) to drink on here.
Tactical awareness of ones surroundings is something that way too many people take for granted.
If you drink or get high you become much easier to target.
What this girl did is actually quite common. I know plenty of young people from the burbs who have gone down to the ghetto of Detroit, gotten blewout and robbed. You just don’t hear about it till someone disappears or dies.
One thing that I think is a problem for women, is that their response to male pheromones is to relax and let their guard down.
In a situation where a male might be experiencing extreme aprehension and an overwelming fight or flight response, females will feeling the opposite.
How many people from the US have died in Aruba? If this were a regular occurance by the regular people there, then that would be different. One of the suspects is a judges son. If anything, this points to a need to be more cautious of those who you think you can trust.
[quote]Dan-Trev wrote:
It is suprising to me that this terrible incident has made so much noise. I’m from the South Texas Border of Laredo and Nuevo Laredo is right across the border.(Nuevo Laredo recently made international news because of a shoot out between federal agents and municipal police). About thirty people from the U.S. have gone missing over there within the last two years. These incidents have not made that much news.[/quote]
Oh my GAWD! YES! I hear of them often (near San antonio myself) but they don’t get the coverage they deserve, which is horribly sad.
[quote]frisbee wrote:
I don’t understand why her friends weren’t looking out for her. When you are that young and arent used to drinking, you stick together with some friends, and if someone was drunk and leaving with natives, you don’t let them.[/quote]
Exactly. I have friends now that wouldn’t just leave without making sure everyone was ok and had a safe way to get back…and we’re grown.
It is a sad story. A horrible thing to happen, partially caused by irresponsibility on the part of the girl and others on the trip (unfortunately). I’m not sure what age I would allow my kids to travel alone when I have them, but I imagine I would allow them to go on a senior trip with friends. That’s almost college age. I went to college away from home as did my sister, and we were both allowed to go on spring break trips. This is not so different.
As for Aruba, it is no more dangerous than any other place. I have been there many times. It is a tragedy. But one American tourist was murdered. Aruba is probably safer than most places in America.
I think, living in a very controlled environment where parents shelter children from all the ills of the world, lets people forget all the harsh realities of the world.
The further you get from home, the more careful you have to become. You don’t know what the dangers might be, you don’t know the territory and you don’t know who to trust.
It has been a long time for me, but something I learned, was never to get drunk unless you knew you had someone around that would care for you if you couldn’t care for yourself.
This of course is learned after you get drunk with folks who simply don’t give a shit what damage or danger you get yourself into.
It’s great to have a good time and all, but unless you have someone around you able to provide some standard of care for your well being, you are in a situation of pure risk.
Sigh, just rambling I guess. I hate when bad things happen to people, but trying to understand the issues and making sure that someone always has the point with respect to keeping things from going apeshit could only help.
The sad truth, this applies doubly or triply to women.
I think if your child is 18, you kind of gotta let them go. I have two young kids, and I was just having this discussion with a friend the other day. At first, I said, HELL no. Then, after giving it some thought, I realized that you have to allow your child to live. If you’ve done your job as a parent, then she should be able to handle the trip and be cautious enough to not get into too much trouble. Talk to your kid about your concerns, not us. Your communication with your child is invaluable, and they’ll respect you for sharing your concerns with them. If they still go, then they’ll go knowing how concerned you were. This should be enough for them to keep caution in their brain and be careful, if for no other reason than, Dad’s worried about me. Make sense?