First off, Id like to apologize for a MAJOR typo in this week’s Appetite Column. When listing the nutrient combo the researchers used in the pre-workout drink study, I mistakenly typed a drink containing 6g oral essential amino acids and 35g protein. Well, Id like to apologize since it was actually 35g of carbs (go ahead and read the study for yourselves). Im sorry for the mix-up as it’s caused me quite a bit of grief already.
In addition, for those who believe that somehow changing my perspective on nutrition in and around the workout due to new data makes me a "sell out" (and Ive gotten quite a few mails already calling me this), here is what I have to say.
First, we always claimed that the ratio of protein (hydrolyzed) to individual aminos (esp BCAA) to carbs is the key to the efficacy of Surge. This has not changed.
Second, original research showed that 0.4 and 0.8g of protein and carb was the best for recovery. That hasnt changed either. If you split up your original drink into two, you’re still getting the same 0.4g of protein, and 0.8g of carbs. If your workout is 1 hour long then you get this same macro profile in the 1 hour workout period. It’s still the same.
Third, there was a mistake in typing 6g of essential amino acids and 35g of protein...It should be a 35g of carb load with 6g of essential aminos! When taking into account the carbs and protien in Surge this works out to be almost exactly the same as used in this study. Surge just provides additional "non-essential" amino acids.
Fourth, as far as digestibility, whole food or even whole proteins would have difficulty digesting during the workout. However, easily absorbed aminos and carbs get in efficiently as shown in this study.
Finally, as we are privy to new information and learn more thru research, we improve our knowledge. A year ago I was very excited about the Surge formula for putting on mass and for recovery. And I still am (esp due to feedback from hundreds of users). However brand new research has shown us how to use it more effectively. I will continue to get excited about new formulations that work despite the fact that the future may require that we make some modifications on those formulations to enhance efficacy even further.
In these sort of studies the guinepigs is fasting before the test, if I eat my meals during the day like a good little boy shouldn´t I have some form of aminobuildup in my bloodstream allready and the effekt of taking the aminos before my workout is lower than in the labtests ?
John, the term ‘selling out’ infers that you are not sincere in your recommendations, which I’m sure is only a minority opinion. I think that it was a shock to the system, if you excuse the pun, after recently re-educating us about the recovery issues. At least you had the balls to show us this research and make public your modifications. Not only this, ‘Surge’ has been used successfully by many, and I guess that people are afraid of change.
My previous question about blood sugar crashes, was something that I knew you’d be able to address but hadn’t specifically referred to in your column. Having been a consumer of bodybuilding supplements for over a decade you learn a healthy degree of cynism. I’m sure you understand.
However, at risk of being removed from your Christmas card list forever- didn’t the study create a somewhat artificial situation, in that the subjects had fasted for 13hours prior to working out? Do you think that the pre-workout drink would have been unanimously more effective than the post-workout drink if the subjects had consumed a protein/carb meal 1.5 hours before training? You designed ‘Surge’ with very specific objectives in mind. Do we look for exactly the same requirements in a pre-workout drink, or is there a case for creating a different formula for pre-workout? Keep up the good work- Stu.
Some people need to take a big glob of their “Nitro-Tech”, smear it on Kovacs ass, and take a big lick. Sorry if the Lion is a bit ticked…but where do some people get off? I would be MUCH more worried if you, the other contributors to this site, and “Biotest” DID NOT come out with new information, new formulations and/or new products. Now THAT would be the “sell out”. Is there a more innovative and ever-changing supplement company out there? Or do most product lines look about the same as they did 5 years ago, only with new packaging? If people think for ONE MINUTE that what we know today about the Human System and it’s response to diet, cardio and resistance training will be the same as even a few months from now, they may as well start drinking creme and table sugar and eating white bread with butter and sausage to bulk-up. It ain’t gonna happen.This is an ever changing field. So…JB…keep us updated on the latest information…and anyone who criticizes that are welcome to stay the dumbasses they appear to want to be…
Good questions guys. Basically the fact that they were fasting probably biased the study a bit. But remember, in science we have to do things that offer more control, not things that offer more practical applications. So it’s not a study weakness. However, you make a good point.
Ive thought of this and I still think the message of the study is that you need to get some fast carbs and protein in during training to keep insulin a bit higher and keep fresh supply of aminos in the blood. If you go re-read the data, this drink increased blood flow (eating a few hours before hand probably would not have), and increased the % of aminos taken up into the muscle relative to the other drink. Plus theres alot of stuff they measured in this study that I didnt report because it's very technical and would have weighed down the article. I just reported the most important stuff.
So clearly there is something happening when you give a drink just beforehand to increase the efficacy of protein synthetic mechanisms. Let's use these data to our advantage!
Although the study used a pre drink, it came so close to the session that it's probably no diff than drinking it during the session. I actually prefer using it during the session rather than before.
John, people calling you a sellout are idiots. If anything, everytime you contradict what you wrote before, I respect you even more for being able to admit when facts prove previous suppositions incorrect.
John, I was wondering how one would incorporate this while working out early in the morning. I currently get up at 6:30 have an advanced protein shake and some fish oil caps and train at about 7:30. I then have my surge after training. Would I need the early morning protein shake? If not I would be in a fasted state much like the study participants due to my overnight fast.
John,
I applaud you abilty to adapt and modify your nutritional thinking based on the latest “good reasearch”. I am with ya, I would be disappointed if you ignored this study because of Surge. Keep up the good work!!!
Hi John, I am fairly new to the site and boards. But I wanted to say that you would have been a sell out if you did not acknowledge this new info and ignored it. Thank you for your honesty and I look forward to your new articles come up soon. This is not an exact science and we continue to learn new things everyday. We have to be current and keep abreast of the new advances and research. I have seen other people and companies ignore and bash the new research and keep plugging there out of date products and research. Once again THANKS for your HONESTY and continued success. Keep sharing the INFO with your fellow T-MEN and T-Vixens and the rest of the BB community. AJ
John–in regards to the pre-workout half serving of Surge, could one add a scoop of Power Drive or would this be a no no? Since I would be drinking the Drive anyway…
