Arrows vs

Training
41

I only use traditional bows, but, IMO , you need to find a pro archery shop in your area. They have techs that can set you up. For a compound shooter, with the weight let off, bow poundage is not the primary concern. For the North American game you listed, a 55# drawweight or “peak weight” for a compound will be sufficient. Just use a reasonable weight arrow, at least 450 grains,and a dependable broadhead, a lot of compound shooters use lighter arrows, but, when you are killing something ,always error on the heavy side.

Compounds are sold almost everywhere: Cabela’s, Bass Pro Shop, Gander Mountain, etc. Some of the leading brands of compounds are Matthews, Sky Archery, Bear Archery, etc.

A good information source for compound shooters: www.bowsite.com

42

There is a highly recommended pro shop about an hour away from me. I’ll probably end up there.

I’ve been told 55lbs is a good draw weight. Is there a reason not to go up to 70lbs to accomodate a heavier arrow?

43

[quote]Will207 wrote:
There is a highly recommended pro shop about an hour away from me. I’ll probably end up there.

I’ve been told 55lbs is a good draw weight. Is there a reason not to go up to 70lbs to accomodate a heavier arrow?[/quote]

First, I am not a compound expert and everything I advise comes from the traditional side. That being said, if you are in reasonably good shape"strength wise" then using a 70# compound should be no problem. Unlike tradional bows, you will not be holding the full 70# at full draw.

For a general guideline, you should always use at least 9 or 10 grains per inch for weight in your hunting arrows. for example: I use 65 to 70 pound bows and use the “10 rule” . My hunting arrows fall in the 650 to 700 grain range. Now, that is traditional bows: using light arrows in a recurve or longbow will cause excess vibration in the limbs, which will translate into a “loud bow” upon the arrows release. Excess noise will cause an alert animal to “jump the string”, resulting in a poorly placed hit or a total miss.

Compound shooters, as a general rule, use lighter arrows to obtain the speed they want. I know several compound hunters who are very successful in using arrows weighing in around 400 to 450 grains with 70# bows. There are two schools of thought on this:

  1. speed kills, so I dont need heavy arrows.

  2. mass kills, so I need heavy arrows.

I try to match the arrows to the game hunted. For thin skinned game , such as deer, you can get away with using a lighter arrow, but, if you are hunting tougher animals, such as wild hogs, then a heavy arrow with work better on their thick shields.

Based on my personal experience for hunting, you need to stay in the 9 or 10 grain rule.

If you were beginning in traditional archery, I would not advise starting with a 70# bow, but, with a compound and being in shape, you should not have any problems with a few months of practice. Most good pro shops have a small indoor range, I would suggest trying out different weighs before you invest.

44

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]Will207 wrote:
There is a highly recommended pro shop about an hour away from me. I’ll probably end up there.

I’ve been told 55lbs is a good draw weight. Is there a reason not to go up to 70lbs to accomodate a heavier arrow?[/quote]

First, I am not a compound expert and everything I advise comes from the traditional side. That being said, if you are in reasonably good shape"strength wise" then using a 70# compound should be no problem. Unlike tradional bows, you will not be holding the full 70# at full draw.

For a general guideline, you should always use at least 9 or 10 grains per inch for weight in your hunting arrows. for example: I use 65 to 70 pound bows and use the “10 rule” . My hunting arrows fall in the 650 to 700 grain range. Now, that is traditional bows: using light arrows in a recurve or longbow will cause excess vibration in the limbs, which will translate into a “loud bow” upon the arrows release. Excess noise will cause an alert animal to “jump the string”, resulting in a poorly placed hit or a total miss.

Compound shooters, as a general rule, use lighter arrows to obtain the speed they want. I know several compound hunters who are very successful in using arrows weighing in around 400 to 450 grains with 70# bows. There are two schools of thought on this:

  1. speed kills, so I dont need heavy arrows.

  2. mass kills, so I need heavy arrows.

I try to match the arrows to the game hunted. For thin skinned game , such as deer, you can get away with using a lighter arrow, but, if you are hunting tougher animals, such as wild hogs, then a heavy arrow with work better on their thick shields.

Based on my personal experience for hunting, you need to stay in the 9 or 10 grain rule.

If you were beginning in traditional archery, I would not advise starting with a 70# bow, but, with a compound and being in shape, you should not have any problems with a few months of practice. Most good pro shops have a small indoor range, I would suggest trying out different weighs before you invest.

[/quote]

I appreciate the response. Thanks!

45

For compounds under 65 is fine. My bow is set at 62 and I practice at 60 yards, when not injured.

A GOOD pro shop will save you a lot of headache, but will put a hurtin on the wallet.

46

For idaho and those interested:

You have got to be kidding me:

Regards,

Robert A

47

someone shared that video with me earlier- its pretty bad ass.
to say the least.

48

Robert,

First: Thank you posting the video.

Second: Damn, and I thought I was good:)) incredible skill, amazing hand and eye coordination. His method of shooting off the “wrong” side of the riser was used in the early days of American archery and was the preferred shooting form of the plains Indians( buffalo hunts, shooting from horseback) A lot of the early bows made in the 1920’s and 30’s were made with arrow shelf on both sides of the riser. Thanks again.

49

[quote]Robert A wrote:
For idaho and those interested:

You have got to be kidding me:

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

Well that’s the most awesome thing I’ve seen this week by a fair margin. Maybe even the best since Sulsa Do Corps…

Thanks for posting.

50

[quote]Robert A wrote:
For idaho and those interested:

You have got to be kidding me:

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

51

[quote]idaho wrote:
Robert,

First: Thank you posting the video.

Second: Damn, and I thought I was good:)) incredible skill, amazing hand and eye coordination. His method of shooting off the “wrong” side of the riser was used in the early days of American archery and was the preferred shooting form of the plains Indians( buffalo hunts, shooting from horseback) A lot of the early bows made in the 1920’s and 30’s were made with arrow shelf on both sides of the riser. Thanks again.[/quote]

No shit? I guess that makes sense.

Is there a difference in absolute accuracy doing it the “modern” way? Is it a more stable, but slower platform? I ask because dude shot an arrow, with an arrow. So the eye/arrow alignment thing may not matter as much.

Also, is this a recurve/short bow dominant technique, as opposed to British war bows?

Glad you liked the videos. Don’t forget to look at the Sulsa Do vids from Bad Ideas either, Sento is giving them “rave” reviews.

Regards,

Robert A

52

brotard, batman, and Will

Glad you guys like this stuff.

53

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
Robert,

First: Thank you posting the video.

Second: Damn, and I thought I was good:)) incredible skill, amazing hand and eye coordination. His method of shooting off the “wrong” side of the riser was used in the early days of American archery and was the preferred shooting form of the plains Indians( buffalo hunts, shooting from horseback) A lot of the early bows made in the 1920’s and 30’s were made with arrow shelf on both sides of the riser. Thanks again.[/quote]

No shit? I guess that makes sense.

Is there a difference in absolute accuracy doing it the “modern” way? Is it a more stable, but slower platform? I ask because dude shot an arrow, with an arrow. So the eye/arrow alignment thing may not matter as much.

Also, is this a recurve/short bow dominant technique, as opposed to British war bows?

Glad you liked the videos. Don’t forget to look at the Sulsa Do vids from Bad Ideas either, Sento is giving them “rave” reviews.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Good Questions and I will try to answer the best I can, however, the information is based on my personal experience of shooting and learning from better archers.

Most traditional archery shooting, especially trick shooting, is done with the “instinctual method”, simply put, your brain is the targeting system and the body responds, so, the method of shooting , whether off one side of the bow riser or other is a matter of choice. However, you will notice in the video the type of recurve he is using is short and his arrows appear light and under 28 in. (standard arrow length). and that is the major drawback, it is very hard to control and shoot accurately, a heavy bow from the “same” side, because, it severely negates the use of the back muscles. The archer is using his arm to draw the bow, thats how he gets the speed of release. Heavy bows require you using you back to draw the bow (think of squeezing you shoulder blades together)

Remember as a kid, how fast you could shoot a sling shot? He has just elevated that technique to a incredible level. The Plains Indians also use this technique because their method of attack was to ride in close to a buffalo, using short light draw bows and arrows that were usually around 25 inchs long (my arrows are 29.5 as an example) and fire multiple arrows in the kill zone. Their bows were usually light, no more than 40 lbs. draw weight. So, they could shoot off both sides of the riser, without relying on the back muscles for full draw.

Now, on the other end of the spectrum is the English warbow, usually between 66 and 78 inches long, 80 to 150 lbs in draw weight, and firing arrows around 34 to 40 inches long, weighing in over 1200 grains. You needed this type of weight to pierce chain mail. So, even though they were supposely able to put 6 arrows in flight before the first struck, you cannot pull that off without using you back muscles. That’s why, in studing the skeletons of former medieval archers, they found heavy calcium deposits on either the right or left shoulders. Heavy artillery compared to the “pistols” above.

(I hope that is at least as clear as mud)

Is there a difference in accuracy? Not to cop out, but it really depends on the individual and their skills. I cannot accurately shoot that way, and I find it very hard to shoot a heavy bow with out using the back to engage the draw. I know of no modern shooter that uses that method, but, it could be done.

I am going to list some Youtube links so you can get a quick view of trick shooting since the 1930’s. My DOD computer does not allows us to post videos anymore. If you have time watch the first one. It is a look at the Wilhelm brothers, the first trick shooters of the modern era. I also listed (IMO) some of the most famous in recent history, they are incredible shooters.

Wilhelm Brothers: late 1930’
- YouTube

Howard Hill: 1950 through 1970 ( was the shooter for Flynn’s Robin Hood Movie)

Master Archer - Howard Hill - YouTube

Bryon Fergurson: Current, one of the most amazing shots I have ever been seen. Uses a 70# longbow for everything. I have been fortunate to shoot with Bryon several times. He has an annual archery shoot in Alabama to benefit the ST. Jude childrens hospital and I have been several times.

Byron Ferguson's Incredible Archery Shots - Quarter and LifesaversShot - YouTube

Fred Asbell: Current: Probably the leading expert on instinctive shooting today. I have shot with him and he is the real deal, incredible shot.

3D Archery - Instinctive Archery DVD by G. Fred Asbell - YouTube

54

Ok, I have no idea why those videos posted, not supposed to do that anymore…LOL, made a liar out of me:))

55

idaho,

Thanks for taking the time. That makes a lot of sense about the draw weights being limited. I have heard/read more than once that you have to sort of “sit down” into a full weight war bow. A retinue of them really would have been the anti personnel artillery of the time.

RE: Howard and Flynn’s Robin Hood

I usually Geek out about the sword work for that movie. Yes I know they went edge to edge way, WAY too often but compared to anything modern it is still a joy to watch.

Regards,

Robert A

56

Lighted nok’s