Arnold Speaks Out Against BBing Judging Criteria

Training
21

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Fluffybeginner wrote:
To me Lee Priest is what the modern day Bodybuilding should be aiming for.

Who honestly looks at Kai Green and even Phil Health, who has incredible genes and symmetry, and says… Yeah I want to look like him.

I grew up a little after Arnold times, but hell I knew who he was and he didn’t look unnatural he looked bad ass and his accent helped that image…

I think just looking at the influence and following people like Zyzz, Harrison Twins and even Jeff Seid shows you how so many people have branched away from the core of Bodybuilding and Mr Olympia and how quickly Aesthetics having an influence on the current gym culture.

I can walk into any gym in my country and the amount of guys training for Aesthetics will always surpass those looking to be bodybuilders… Why not bring the two back?

To me Arnold, Franco and Zane had both fields on point…[/quote]

I was thinking about this earlier, as much as i used to despise all the aesthetic-physique brahs that have become so popular over social media, hopefully this will help drive the sport back to a more pleasing/healthier overall level of development, not the competitions for who has the most freak-factor like we see today.

Funny thing is some of these young 20-something instagram bodybuilders who are relatively “normal” sized are making waaaaay more money than most hardcore pro bodybuilders ever will. [/quote]

Why do we have to have one or the other. Some people like a freak show.
[/quote]

How is the judging criteria supposed to fairly judge the 2 side by side?

The simplest answer as to “why” would be that high level pro bodybuilding in its current form will never be mainstream while the freak-factor that a competitor presents is so highly valued. [/quote]

Oh yeah i agree you couldnt judge them side by side. I think as the years go by, physique guys will get bigger and bigger eventually, then it will be much like the old school days… Besides the damn swimsuits but maybe that’ll change too. I think we will continue to see bodybuilders getting bigger and freakier as technology advances. Just wait till gene doping becomes a thing.

22

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:

[quote]Fluffybeginner wrote:
To me Lee Priest is what the modern day Bodybuilding should be aiming for.

Who honestly looks at Kai Green and even Phil Health, who has incredible genes and symmetry, and says… Yeah I want to look like him.

I grew up a little after Arnold times, but hell I knew who he was and he didn’t look unnatural he looked bad ass and his accent helped that image…

I think just looking at the influence and following people like Zyzz, Harrison Twins and even Jeff Seid shows you how so many people have branched away from the core of Bodybuilding and Mr Olympia and how quickly Aesthetics having an influence on the current gym culture.

I can walk into any gym in my country and the amount of guys training for Aesthetics will always surpass those looking to be bodybuilders… Why not bring the two back?

To me Arnold, Franco and Zane had both fields on point…[/quote]

I was thinking about this earlier, as much as i used to despise all the aesthetic-physique brahs that have become so popular over social media, hopefully this will help drive the sport back to a more pleasing/healthier overall level of development, not the competitions for who has the most freak-factor like we see today.

Funny thing is some of these young 20-something instagram bodybuilders who are relatively “normal” sized are making waaaaay more money than most hardcore pro bodybuilders ever will. [/quote]

Why do we have to have one or the other. Some people like a freak show.
[/quote]

How is the judging criteria supposed to fairly judge the 2 side by side?

The simplest answer as to “why” would be that high level pro bodybuilding in its current form will never be mainstream while the freak-factor that a competitor presents is so highly valued. [/quote]

Oh yeah i agree you couldnt judge them side by side. I think as the years go by, physique guys will get bigger and bigger eventually, then it will be much like the old school days… Besides the damn swimsuits but maybe that’ll change too. I think we will continue to see bodybuilders getting bigger and freakier as technology advances. Just wait till gene doping becomes a thing.
[/quote]

You may be right. As fruity as the WBFF seems to me, their “muscle model” physiques are closer to what i would think actual physique competitors should be, which is closer to Frank Zane than Ronnie Coleman.

23

Well, well, looks like Arnold is right.

This from the IFBB Rulebook 2014 - Men’s Bodybuilding Rules

10.2 Assessing the Male Physique
Assessing the Male Physique:In assessing prejudging, overall shape and that of the various muscle groups is important. The judge should favour competitors with a A HARMONIOUS, CLASSIC PHYSIQUE. The judge should look for good posture and athletic bearing, correct anatomical structure (including body framework, broad shoulders, high chest, correct spinal curves,limbs and trunk in good proportion, straight legs, not bandy or knock- kneed).The judge should also look for good skin tone with an absence of surgical or other scars, spots, acne or tattoos, which the IFBB considers as a skin blemish, tidily dressed hair, well-shaped feet, and toes. When having difficulty in placing two or more competitors who seem to be on the same level, the judge should look for faults in those aspects listed above which will help to differentiate among the competitors.

NONE OF THIS SPECIFIES THAT A GRAINY OR “CONDITIONED” PHYSIQUE TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER A HARMONIOUS, CLASSIC PHYSIQUE!

Branch Warren should never have placed above a superb Cedric McMillan, who epitomized these standards so well.
It’s time for the IFBB to change up the old judges and get back on track. No more bullshit physiques.

24

[quote]CLUNK wrote:
Well, well, looks like Arnold is right.

This from the IFBB Rulebook 2014 - Men’s Bodybuilding Rules

10.2 Assessing the Male Physique
Assessing the Male Physique:In assessing prejudging, overall shape and that of the various muscle groups is important. The judge should favour competitors with a A HARMONIOUS, CLASSIC PHYSIQUE. The judge should look for good posture and athletic bearing, correct anatomical structure (including body framework, broad shoulders, high chest, correct spinal curves,limbs and trunk in good proportion, straight legs, not bandy or knock- kneed).The judge should also look for good skin tone with an absence of surgical or other scars, spots, acne or tattoos, which the IFBB considers as a skin blemish, tidily dressed hair, well-shaped feet, and toes. When having difficulty in placing two or more competitors who seem to be on the same level, the judge should look for faults in those aspects listed above which will help to differentiate among the competitors.

NONE OF THIS SPECIFIES THAT A GRAINY OR “CONDITIONED” PHYSIQUE TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER A HARMONIOUS, CLASSIC PHYSIQUE!

Branch Warren should never have placed above a superb Cedric McMillan, who epitomized these standards so well.
It’s time for the IFBB to change up the old judges and get back on track. No more bullshit physiques. [/quote]

Damn, this is interesting.

If judges were actually still following this Branch would never place top 5 again.

25

[quote]CLUNK wrote:
The judge should also look for good skin tone with an absence of surgical or other scars[/quote]

dammit! I knew my scars’d hold me back

26

I will say, that as a competitor and a judge, I’ve never seen surgical scars or tatoos (so long as you can discern a physique beneath them) seriously hurt anyone’s placings if they indeed presented a decent build.

S

27

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I will say, that as a competitor and a judge, I’ve never seen surgical scars or tatoos (so long as you can discern a physique beneath them) seriously hurt anyone’s placings if they indeed presented a decent build.

S[/quote]

Okay, I’ll admit some of the standards are archaic, however, the formal ones like overall shape are what define bodybuilding to me.

28

I am just guessing that the next advance in Bodybuilding will be discovering the trick or the drug that eliminates the distended bellies that these guys have. For me, that is really the big issue: Having a big gut is an anti aesthetic.

I think these guys would look awesome with their freakishly huge muscles but fairly thin waists.

29

[quote]Yogi wrote:
It’s the guts. They ust look fucking horrible.

Should make the vacuum a mandatory pose.[/quote]

This!

30

[quote]blue9steel wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
It’s the guts. They ust look fucking horrible.

Should make the vacuum a mandatory pose.[/quote]

This![/quote]

Agreed.

Antoine Vaillant is very close to what i think top level BBer’s should be judged as.

He is well developed in every area, has a tight waist and very athletic physique while sporting impressive size and he can hit a vacuum like Frank Zane.

Just a little more muscle mass and nail the conditioning (which he has yet to really do) and i think THAT is what would win contests if judges were still going by the rule book.

31

532×800 686 KB

Arnolds former competitor fits the bill.

32

I honestly think Compton is pretty (relatively) asthetic, but he’s gonna have to watch it as he strives to continually improve in the next few years.

S

33

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I honestly think Compton is pretty (relatively) asthetic, but he’s gonna have to watch it as he strives to continually improve in the next few years.

S[/quote]

Exactly.
Heath is having difficulty making yearly improvements without some distortion of his once-perfect form.

34

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I will say, that as a competitor and a judge, I’ve never seen surgical scars or tatoos (so long as you can discern a physique beneath them) seriously hurt anyone’s placings if they indeed presented a decent build.

S[/quote]

What about gyno? Does that play a role in scoring?

35

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I will say, that as a competitor and a judge, I’ve never seen surgical scars or tatoos (so long as you can discern a physique beneath them) seriously hurt anyone’s placings if they indeed presented a decent build.

S[/quote]

What about gyno? Does that play a role in scoring?
[/quote]

In natty shows? I’m sure! lol

36

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I will say, that as a competitor and a judge, I’ve never seen surgical scars or tatoos (so long as you can discern a physique beneath them) seriously hurt anyone’s placings if they indeed presented a decent build.

S[/quote]

What about gyno? Does that play a role in scoring?
[/quote]

In IFBB shows, I think anyone who has been a fan of the sport the lastr 10+ years has witnessed some top competitors sporting some questonable signs. As to just how bad it is, how it detracts from the rest of their physique, and I would assume how much $ they bring into the sport, the judges all have their individual say. Obviously the by the book description in the NPC/IFBB rule book isn’t really adhered to these days.

In tested shows, I’ve been on judging panels where as soon as an individual walks out, I have the judge next to me already commenting in my ear about how “clean” the guy looks, while being in need of a small cupped bra just to contain his ridiculous gyno. Now, I will admit that there are instances where people who have never touched PEDs just have nipple areas that aren’t exactly… what we would consider part of an ideal men’s physique (I had a buddy in high school who never trained or did anything athletic, but simply had a natural estrogen issue he was seeing a doctor for).

How much something like that throws off a complete physique is really a case by case issue. In my own opinion, I certainly won’t drop a competitor down because I might THINK he’s using something in a tested show. I wait for the test to bust him (or as I’ve written in the past, wait for him to leave the building to avoid the embarassment of the test).

S

37

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I will say, that as a competitor and a judge, I’ve never seen surgical scars or tatoos (so long as you can discern a physique beneath them) seriously hurt anyone’s placings if they indeed presented a decent build.

S[/quote]

What about gyno? Does that play a role in scoring?
[/quote]

In IFBB shows, I think anyone who has been a fan of the sport the lastr 10+ years has witnessed some top competitors sporting some questonable signs. As to just how bad it is, how it detracts from the rest of their physique, and I would assume how much $ they bring into the sport, the judges all have their individual say. Obviously the by the book description in the NPC/IFBB rule book isn’t really adhered to these days.

In tested shows, I’ve been on judging panels where as soon as an individual walks out, I have the judge next to me already commenting in my ear about how “clean” the guy looks, while being in need of a small cupped bra just to contain his ridiculous gyno. Now, I will admit that there are instances where people who have never touched PEDs just have nipple areas that aren’t exactly… what we would consider part of an ideal men’s physique (I had a buddy in high school who never trained or did anything athletic, but simply had a natural estrogen issue he was seeing a doctor for).

How much something like that throws off a complete physique is really a case by case issue. In my own opinion, I certainly won’t drop a competitor down because I might THINK he’s using something in a tested show. I wait for the test to bust him (or as I’ve written in the past, wait for him to leave the building to avoid the embarassment of the test).

S
[/quote]

Right, gotcha, i was more referring to if people get marked down for it or not whether it be tested or non tested, just because youre in a natty show doesnt mean you wont have gyno. Youve heard of puberty right clunk?

38

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

Right, gotcha, i was more referring to if people get marked down for it or not whether it be tested or non tested, just because youre in a natty show doesnt mean you wont have gyno. Youve heard of puberty right clunk?
[/quote]

Of course. But how many competitive bodybuilders are pre or post-pubescent?

Yes, I’ve seen gyno on natty guys, but it’s rare and would indeed raise eyebrows about their credibility.