Are You a Fundamentalist Christian?

[quote]Whoa, Christian god is a nazi?

Don’t beat around the bush, tell us how you really feel.

[/quote]

I didn’t really mean it as a negative thing.

The idea would be that a totalitarian socialist form of rule would only would with a perfect, incorruptible, all knowing leader as well as perfect co-operation between the people. If you believe in Christianity, this would be achieved and would create heaven rather than the hell of Nazi Germany.

Itâ??s just interesting to compare the idea of religious perfection of society with the political spectrum.

Most would end up with some type of totalitarian all powerful government with some version of a divine leader at its head. Ironically, religious ideals tend to be very left in fruition.

It’s more a theocracy than a fascist government. Christians believe that ultimately the world will be ruled by God, and perfect order will exist because people either willingly follow God, or are eternally imprisoned in the fiery bowels of Hell.

[quote]forlife wrote:
Nothing like deflecting your fail by disparaging the evil gays. It worked for Dubbya during the election, but conservatives are backpedaling on that approach these days. You might want to take notes.

I’m curious which of the items in the list you disagree with. Do you think Christianists aren’t atheists when it comes to the thousands of other gods besides their own? Or do you think that being compelled to spend eternity in the fiery bowels of Hell reveals god’s “compassionate conservatism”?[/quote]

Are you talking to me?

Because Mr. Hardback said, ‘Ouch, fail.’ to which I replied, ‘Yeah.’ Hardly a deflection.

As for Dubya, I don’t/didn’t support his decision to ‘ban gay marriage’. I’ve clearly said that if I were to be moved as to redefining marriage, how I would do it. In the same vein, has Barack and the democratic ticket been the homosexual panacea you thought it would be or has there been some ‘backing off’ there too? Maybe, just maybe, he played you for a vote too and is now treating homosexual marriage as the non-issue that it is.

I don’t disagree with the items on the list, I disagree with the irrational hatred of homosexuals (Given that Nero was the first Roman Emperor to marry a man and reportedly killed two apostles, I can’t say there’s not a touch of method to the madness). Equally, I disagree with the irrational hatred of Christianity. It’s not the homosexuality or the Christianity or even the hatred that I loathe.

I’m curious, as I’ve said in the past, if you look across religions, you don’t see a single one that embraces any same-sex union in any way similar to marriage. There are varying shades of tolerance for homosexuality, from apathy to animosity, but no sanctification. Even a fair number of atheists are opposed to gay marriage. So why do you choose to bash only Christianity? Why do you bash Christianity, which is relatively tolerant of homosexuality (All of the gay child-molesting priests are free men, no?), in favor of Islam which is fairly clear in its negative treatment of homosexuality?

Or continue quoting Plato’s shadows and screaming, ‘All the major medical institutions say I’m not psychotic!’ to anyone who disagrees with your gay-oriented world view. It’s much more becoming.

[quote]lucasa wrote:
Because Mr. Hardback said, ‘Ouch, fail.’ to which I replied, ‘Yeah.’ Hardly a deflection.[/quote]

Actually, you replied:

If you had just said, “Yeah”, acknowledging that your former post was a fail and leaving it at that, it would have been different.

I’m glad you don’t agree with Dubya, but was pointing out that the religious right drummed up short term support by villifying gays during his election. They are now rethinking that whole strategy and are backing off from even commenting on gays, since they have lost a significant amount of political power, and desperately need to change tactics.

I think Obama has done a good job juggling several significant issues, most importantly fixing the economy, during his first 100 days. You could be right that he will change direction on supporting equal rights for gays, but I doubt that will happen, especially since the political climate actually favors gays right now.

Actually, there are numerous gay affirming churches, including Christian churches, which fully support equal rights for gays. I’m glad to have their support, but that doesn’t mean I view their religious beliefs as any more valid.

My own experience is deeply rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. For that reason, I tend to comment more on that brand of religion than on others. My comments apply equally to any religion that bases its beliefs on fairy tales rather than facts, irrespective of their views about gays.

[quote]forlife wrote:

If you had just said, “Yeah”, acknowledging that your former post was a fail and leaving it at that, it would have been different.[/quote]

I guess if the intent of my post were to illustrate failure and, rather than doing that, I steered it in a different direction, you might have a point. As it was I acknowledged the failure and clarified the post which is kind of the opposite of deflection. Deflection would be if someone said I was a religious fundamentalist and I said that every major medical and psychological institution in the world said religion is not a defect. Or if someone said something about religions and I started talking about churches…in any event I clearly focused on the failure and we continue to focus on the theme of the failure, nothing has been deflected.

I think that depends on how you define the political climate. If you look at State Legislation and Supreme Court rulings, I agree. If you look at things like popular vote on proposition 8, gun and ammunition sales, I would say “favors” is presumptuous.

[quote]Actually, there are numerous gay affirming churches, including Christian churches, which fully support equal rights for gays. I’m glad to have their support, but that doesn’t mean I view their religious beliefs as any more valid.

My own experience is deeply rooted in fundamentalist Christianity. For that reason, I tend to comment more on that brand of religion than on others. My comments apply equally to any religion that bases its beliefs on fairy tales rather than facts, irrespective of their views about gays. [/quote]

No, you pretty clearly attack(ed) Christians by both name and description. Which is surprising given that there are gay-friendly Christian churches and given the apathy/animosity given to homosexuality by the overwhelming majority of the rest of the religious world. Maybe you swallowed too many red pills.

is this thread still alive? Seriously? a moronic attack against the beliefs of christians which has degenerated into a defense of being gay . . . . sheesh, get over it. If you are a Christian, this kind of nonsense is nothing new - we’ve seen and heard worse from people who do not agree with us. If your gay, great, don’t expect others to agree with you on that.

So, let’s see, we’ve learned that those who don;t believe in Christianity don’t believe in Christianity and that those who are not gay don’t agree with being gay . . . wow

lulz… I am not a Christian, but I don’t diss them either.

[quote]lucasa wrote:
As it was I acknowledged the failure and clarified the post which is kind of the opposite of deflection.[/quote]

The failed post was itself a deflection to my sexual orientation, having nothing to do with the OP. The reason we’re even talking about gay right now is because you brought it up in a thread having nothing to do with gay.

Not really presumptuous when you consider that public opinion has steadily shifted in favor of equal rights for gays over the past couple of decades.

I never said otherwise. In fact, in my last post I specifically said that fairy tales don’t magically become facts just because a church decides to be gay friendly. The points made in the OP apply to all Christians, regardless of their support of equal rights for gays.

It appears forlife’s self-affirmations haven’t been working very well recently.

forlife- We hope these few pages of digital affirmation have helped you get thru these last few days. And remember, as long as T-Nation exists on the internet, these pages will always be here for you. Come back anytime and reread them whenever you are feeling weak and confused about who and what you are.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
is this thread still alive? Seriously? a moronic attack against the beliefs of christians which has degenerated into a defense of being gay . . . . sheesh, get over it. If you are a Christian, this kind of nonsense is nothing new - we’ve seen and heard worse from people who do not agree with us. If your gay, great, don’t expect others to agree with you on that.

So, let’s see, we’ve learned that those who don;t believe in Christianity don’t believe in Christianity and that those who are not gay don’t agree with being gay . . . wow
[/quote]

Huh. I wonder what would your attitude be towards a grown man who seriously still believed in santa claus? I personally think you wouldnt be to supportive of the idea. I mean really lets think about it. A fat dude riding around on a sliegh pulled by flying reindeer who slides down a chimney do put toys under a tree? Pretty stupid right? But the idea that some dude can get magic beans from someone and grow a beanstalk to the clouds…oh wait wrong fairy tale.

[quote]Buff HardBack wrote:
lucasa wrote:
Fundamentalist Homosexual?

forlife wrote:
Top 10 danger signs (from evilbible.com):

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

You vigorously deny the importance of thousands of other marginal sexual and social behaviors, but feel outrage when someone calls yours ‘marginal’.

9 - You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when a judge says you can’t get married in this state, but have no problem citing irreproducible scientific research that says your sexual orientation is fixed at birth.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

You laugh at long-standing traditions like polygamy, but have no problem including yourself in the definition of ‘alternative marriage’.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!

Your face turns purple when you hear of the ‘atrocities’ attributed to anti-homosexuality, but you don’t even flinch in comparing the same atrocities to indentured servitude, beatings, whippings, lynchings, hangings, and other actual persecutions that make bureaucratic paperwork seem heavenly.

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

You laugh at beliefs that deify humans, Buddhist and Greek ideologies like purity, virtue, and stoicism, and you have no problem holding pederasty up as an example of any practice that should in any way be emulated by anyone.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

You can quite easily see loopholes in the tradition of marriage as it is currently defined, but you find nothing wrong with exploiting those loopholes to sanctify marginal sexual behaviors.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”

You believe you can redefine marriage to include your personal proclivities, excluding those who’s proclivities you don’t happen to agree with, and ignoring or silencing those who prefer the definition as it is. And yet you consider your definition to be “progressive” and “tolerant”.

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

While modern science, biology, and statistics have failed to convince you otherwise, one roll in the hay with another guy is all the evidence you need to “prove” to others that any thoughts you have on homosexuality are right.

2 - You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

You claim .004% as proof of inequality when it comes to homosexuality, and you think that the remaining 99.996% of crime is simply random or without motivation. And that’s a good thing.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

You actually know a lot less than many married and single individuals about sex, relationships, and community- but still claim to know that rewriting laws because of sexuality is a good idea.

OUCH. Now that was a fail and then some.
[/quote]

Just to clarify people, when I said fail I was making a statement that lucasas attempt at belittling the original list was a fail, not the list itself.

By the way a little entertainment for everyone to show religious tolerance towards people who are different.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

So, let’s see, we’ve learned that those who don;t believe in Christianity don’t believe in Christianity and that those who are not gay don’t agree with being gay . . . wow
[/quote]

lol. What?

“We’ve” learned “people who are not gay don’t agree with being gay”? Soooooo…lots of people in Vermont are gay then? 48% or so of Californians are gay? Damn! lol.

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
It appears forlife’s self-affirmations haven’t been working very well recently.
[/quote]

It’s a common diversion to question the person’s motivation, rather than addressing the actual points being discussed. Ad hominem attacks can be comforting for the attacker, but alas they fail to provide any evidence against the claim.

You misunderstand my motivation, I have no desire to attack you. I only want to deal with the deeper issue.

Please, everyone, forlife is calling to us in his need. Take a few minutes and type your positive affirmation for forlife. For many of us, this thread will soon pass into digital oblivion, never to be thought of again. But for forlife, it will be a blessing lasting his whole life, as he returns every so often to reread this thread. Don’t lose this moment- add your blessings and affirmations as I add mine.

You ARE worthwhile forlife.

Your life DOES have meaning.

Hang in there forlife.

Your biceps ARE getting bigger forlife.

We’re giving you a THUMBS UP forlife.

REJOICE daily in the gaiety life brings you!

/ thread

[quote]forlife wrote:
It’s more a theocracy than a fascist government. Christians believe that ultimately the world will be ruled by God, and perfect order will exist because people either willingly follow God, or are eternally imprisoned in the fiery bowels of Hell.[/quote]

Wow - you got one right . . . and here I thought you could never construct a clean statement about Christianity . . .

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
You misunderstand my motivation, I have no desire to attack you. I only want to deal with the deeper issue.[/quote]

I wasn’t attacking your motivation, since doing so would be just another ad hominem attack. You have every right to post for whatever reason you choose to post.

I was just pointing out that your comments on my motivation are irrelevant and distracting, because they have nothing to do with the validity of the points being discussed.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
forlife wrote:
It’s more a theocracy than a fascist government. Christians believe that ultimately the world will be ruled by God, and perfect order will exist because people either willingly follow God, or are eternally imprisoned in the fiery bowels of Hell.

Wow - you got one right . . . and here I thought you could never construct a clean statement about Christianity . . .[/quote]

Thats a clean statement about christianity…ouch.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
forlife wrote:
It’s more a theocracy than a fascist government. Christians believe that ultimately the world will be ruled by God, and perfect order will exist because people either willingly follow God, or are eternally imprisoned in the fiery bowels of Hell.

Wow - you got one right . . . and here I thought you could never construct a clean statement about Christianity . . .[/quote]

Oh wow. If this was actually true, I’d like to think I’d have the balls and moral fortitude to stand against it. I will never understand why some people long to be slaves.

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
forlife wrote:
It’s more a theocracy than a fascist government. Christians believe that ultimately the world will be ruled by God, and perfect order will exist because people either willingly follow God, or are eternally imprisoned in the fiery bowels of Hell.

Wow - you got one right . . . and here I thought you could never construct a clean statement about Christianity . . .

Oh wow. If this was actually true, I’d like to think I’d have the balls and moral fortitude to stand against it. I will never understand why some people long to be slaves.[/quote]

…as shown by the section of believers on this board, and as admitted by one of them, it’s much easier just to believe on faith that the answers you were given are absolute truth, and that you don’t have to think for yourself, that you don’t have to doubt anything, if you just stop thinking rationally. It’s laziness combined with wilfull ignorance…