Hi. This is my first post, but I’ve been reading for a while now.
I’m 41 and just had my T levels tested. Here are the results:
These are all “in range” according to the labs report, but I’m wondering . . .
Thanks for your thoughts.
If you believe what the medical community believes, your levels are almost right in the middle of the range.
HOWEVER, it is my very strong opinion that a value of 400+ might not be enough for YOU. A person whose normal range is, say 800, might likely feel the problems of test deficiency if his levels went down to 400.
You know, I really urge alot of the younger people (25 years or less) to get their levels checked to establish a BASELINE for YOU for the future. I believe you always want to be in the proper range as established by your baseline values when you are young. Oftentimes, side effects or problems seen with HRT or steroid usage are due to going way past the normal range levels for too long a period of time.
a tad low but not too bad. Mine are 247 as of 2 weeks ago. I’m 44, about to turn 45 next week
[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If you believe what the medical community believes, your levels are almost right in the middle of the range.
HOWEVER, it is my very strong opinion that a value of 400+ might not be enough for YOU. A person whose normal range is, say 800, might likely feel the problems of test deficiency if his levels went down to 400.
You know, I really urge alot of the younger people (25 years or less) to get their levels checked to establish a BASELINE for YOU for the future. I believe you always want to be in the proper range as established by your baseline values when you are young. Oftentimes, side effects or problems seen with HRT or steroid usage are due to going way past the normal range levels for too long a period of time. [/quote]
Couldn’t agree more. My numbers are in the high 400’s, yet, I know there way down. Nowhere near what they were 7 years ago.
Thanks for the comments. Unfortunatly, I didn’t get tested in my 20’s or 30’s in order to establish a baseline level. That is good advice to the young (who probably don’t read this forum).
I feel that the level is low for me - having some of the symptoms of low test. I’m 6’ and 195 and I’ve lifted reguarly since I was 18, but I’m not a bodybuilder. My body fat tested out at 12% last week.
I do some boxing and jujitsu. I’m not very good, but it keeps me in decent shape. Most of the guys I workout with are decades my junior.
For the last year I seem to go from injury to injury. Shoulder injuries (both shoulders), elbow injuries (tendonitus) and knee injuries (strained ligaments). I’ve had two cortizone shots in the last year.
Two follow up questions:
I believe that lower test makes me more injury prone and slower to heal. Is that correct thinking?
If my test levels are middle-of-the-road for my age, is HRT appropriate and will doctors perscribe it?
Thanks again for your thoughts.
[quote]chpga wrote:
Thanks for the comments. Unfortunatly, I didn’t get tested in my 20’s or 30’s in order to establish a baseline level. That is good advice to the young (who probably don’t read this forum). [/quote]
You’re so right; it’s hard to get the message through though to the wonderful youth. Remember the “know it all” feeling and basic invulnerability to everything when you were younger? Ah, the joys of youth…
In my humble opinion, yes…lower test levels will make it much more difficult to “regenerate”.
Unfortunately, no. The medical community is very narrow minded (I realize I’m generalizing here; not trying to flame any of you health industry folks out there) when it comes to “normal” ranges. The majority of the population will fall within the bulbous part of the “bell curve”, but so many of us who embark on intense physical activity perhaps pushes us to require actually much higher levels of these hormones for proper recuperation. I believe the vast majority of us here at T-Nation actually need to be in a range of at least 600 to 1000 in test levels to really be physiologically “normal” at our higher lean body mass and strength levels.
I have no scientific literature or studies to support my hunches; only real life data from myself and many others who like monitoring our levels periodically and discussing the data.
With numbers like these, most likely you need to find a doctor with an aggressive approach to therapy. There are M.D.'s out there who want their patients to be in normal-high to high levels, which would mean an approximate doubling of your current numbers.
These doctors can be found through places like LEF (Life Extension Foundation). Hit their database and see if there’s a doctor in your area.
But that’s no guarantee that they’ll comply. I’ve found these mattters to be highly individual, even within the life extension branch of medicine.
And normal practitioners would rarely write a script for the numbers you’ve posted at your age.
My personal experience on HRT has not indicated a measurable improvement in recovery from injuries.
Yes, the doc’s need to cover their arses to have a lab report that is evidence of a medical need. Especially if med insurance is involved. This stuff is schedule III drugs and they need to take care of themselves, not just you.
Do you know the symptoms of low T?
-ED
-weak erections
-loss of or diminished interest in sex
-brain fog
-irritability, anger, intolerance
-no nocturnal erections
-no morning erections
-lost ability to plan ahead
-passivity aka don’t give a sh1t
-gaining fat and loosing muscle, perhaps with no net weight change
-new sleeping problems
-skin thinner and inelastic
-seeing a sexy girl as a work of art instead of something that you want to hit
That’s all I can recall right now.
A good doc will treat symptoms and not lab reports. What docs will do varies by your location and if the state medical board is a bunch of jerks who make life hell for docs and patients. Finding the right doc can be a real problem for some.
Another issue is if you are open minded about learning to self inject T. And if you have insurance, will they cover TRT? Will they cover HCG and AI (arimidex). Injections are the cheapest route and very effective, if you are willing.
Where you live, country and state also has some impact on some issues* and alternatives. Help us with that.
As for injuries, you might have an issue with GH/ICF-1 levels. These drop, as does T, along with DHEA, pregnenolone. The only steroid that does not drop is cholesterol (hush, don’t tell congress, cholesterol is a steroid). Some guys with nagging injuries have used GH and ICF-1 and have cleared these up.
[quote]Plowman wrote:
With numbers like these, most likely you need to find a doctor with an aggressive approach to therapy. There are M.D.'s out there who want their patients to be in normal-high to high levels, which would mean an approximate doubling of your current numbers.
These doctors can be found through places like LEF (Life Extension Foundation). Hit their database and see if there’s a doctor in your area.
But that’s no guarantee that they’ll comply. I’ve found these mattters to be highly individual, even within the life extension branch of medicine.
And normal practitioners would rarely write a script for the numbers you’ve posted at your age.
My personal experience on HRT has not indicated a measurable improvement in recovery from injuries. [/quote]
Very sound facts.
My personal data and those of others I know do indicate greater regeneration after training. With respect to injuries, I do strongly believe that higher levels of test will aid in recuperation.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Yes, the doc’s need to cover their arses to have a lab report that is evidence of a medical need. Especially if med insurance is involved. This stuff is schedule III drugs and they need to take care of themselves, not just you.
Do you know the symptoms of low T?
-ED
-weak erections
-loss of or diminished interest in sex
-brain fog
-irritability, anger, intolerance
-no nocturnal erections
-no morning erections
-lost ability to plan ahead
-passivity aka don’t give a sh1t
-gaining fat and loosing muscle, perhaps with no net weight change
-new sleeping problems
-skin thinner and inelastic
-seeing a sexy girl as a work of art instead of something that you want to hit
That’s all I can recall right now.
A good doc will treat symptoms and not lab reports. What docs will do varies by your location and if the state medical board is a bunch of jerks who make life hell for docs and patients. Finding the right doc can be a real problem for some.
Another issue is if you are open minded about learning to self inject T. And if you have insurance, will they cover TRT? Will they cover HCG and AI (arimidex). Injections are the cheapest route and very effective, if you are willing.
Where you live, country and state also has some impact on some issues* and alternatives. Help us with that.
As for injuries, you might have an issue with GH/ICF-1 levels. These drop, as does T, along with DHEA, pregnenolone. The only steroid that does not drop is cholesterol (hush, don’t tell congress, cholesterol is a steroid). Some guys with nagging injuries have used GH and ICF-1 and have cleared these up.[/quote]
Love your posts KSMan.
Excellent info can be found in each of them. Seriously.
“And if you have insurance, will they cover TRT?”
Yes. And another caveat. The T itself is negligable. I pay about 45 dollars per vial, and it’s compounded at the pharmacy so they tend to overfill. No doubt the Costco pharmacies and their kind are even cheaper.
But the blood tests can run over a thousand dollars. It depends on how thorough and self-protective the doctor wants to be.
I’m encouraged that T may help recovery from injuries. It certainly makes intuitive sense. A cruel irony here is that, when on T in the past, I’d sometimes push my tendons a bit too fast, focused as I was from the strength increase. But wisdom came with age.
Thanks for the info guys. I have 2 or 3 symptoms of low test, but I’m not sure it’s enough to carry the day with my MD.
My MD was very open about HRT and says that he perscribes it reguarly. However, he would not perscribe it for me based on my tests.
I’ve read the extensive posts here on suppliments for increasing test (e.g. Alpha Male, ZMA, TRIBEX Gold, etc).
Honestly, I’m in information overload on that topic and can’t see the forest for the trees.
Do you guys have any clear, straight-forward advice on suppliments to increase test? I’m considering using the new Alpha Male and cycling as stated on the bottle, but don’t want to waste my time or money.
Thanks.
Do you have E levels from your blood work? That is very important and something that you can address with supplements.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Do you have E levels from your blood work? That is very important and something that you can address with supplements.[/quote]
Nope, the blood work didn’t show Estrogen levels.
[quote]Plowman wrote:
“And if you have insurance, will they cover TRT?”
Yes. And another caveat. The T itself is negligable. I pay about 45 dollars per vial, and it’s compounded at the pharmacy so they tend to overfill. No doubt the Costco pharmacies and their kind are even cheaper.
But the blood tests can run over a thousand dollars. It depends on how thorough and self-protective the doctor wants to be.
I’m encouraged that T may help recovery from injuries. It certainly makes intuitive sense. A cruel irony here is that, when on T in the past, I’d sometimes push my tendons a bit too fast, focused as I was from the strength increase. But wisdom came with age.
[/quote]
if tests run over a thousand dollars how do you expect a guy in their 20’s to get T levels checked?
[quote]cesliwakan wrote:
Plowman wrote:
“And if you have insurance, will they cover TRT?”
Yes. And another caveat. The T itself is negligable. I pay about 45 dollars per vial, and it’s compounded at the pharmacy so they tend to overfill. No doubt the Costco pharmacies and their kind are even cheaper.
But the blood tests can run over a thousand dollars. It depends on how thorough and self-protective the doctor wants to be.
I’m encouraged that T may help recovery from injuries. It certainly makes intuitive sense. A cruel irony here is that, when on T in the past, I’d sometimes push my tendons a bit too fast, focused as I was from the strength increase. But wisdom came with age.
if tests run over a thousand dollars how do you expect a guy in their 20’s to get T levels checked?[/quote]
No. The tests do NOT cost a thousand dollars. Don’t know where the person who wrote that gets their levels checked, but you are getting seriously raped by someone if you pay that much. I get my hormone levels checked EVERY month.
However, it isn’t cheap if your insurance won’t cover it. For many, this will be the factor preventing them from doing what I consider one of the most important tests a young man can do.
Ask almost anyone experiencing low T due to age related effects. Ask them if they wished they knew what their “young” levels were.
“if tests run over a thousand dollars how do you expect a guy in their 20’s to get T levels checked?”
He’s 41.
I didn’t mean to suggest that a T level test by itself cost over a thousand dollars. But for those entering this area, they need to know that it’s more than the visit and the cost of the drug.
I’m looking at a print-out from Quest Diagnostics. I have no idea how competitive these prices are. But I also know that when your doctor draws blood, he sends it where he chooses, and you pay. And if you want to talk to two people who DON’T know how much it costs, ask the doctor or the nurse.
Testosterone: 133.17
Free Testosterone: 157.85.
That’s approximately 290. Now, you’re going to get your levels checked at least three times a year by a self-protecting doctor. buffd_samurai gets his checked every month. That means, if his cost ONE HALF of mine, and ONLY Test (not free test), it’d be eight hundred a year.
But that’s only the beginning. A self-protecting doctor will test lipo and triglicerides even more closely because of the impact of HRT. And then there are the near-obligatory QN, glucose AST, ALT that is tacked on – a pittance of a total at 30 dollars per draw. Multiply. Divide. Go to bank. Withdraw.
And while you’re at it, check the LH. What’s that? You’re 41? Better run a PSA on you, what with the T and the risk of BPH all. And how IS your estradiol now that you’re injecting?
I double-checked the total for four different blood draws, and it totals 1,000 dollars over a seven month period. My numbers stand. My advisement of hidden costs stand. There’s a bigger picture here than just going to the doctor and getting a script.
Hooray for all who are getting cheaper bloodwork. I welcome your figures and recommendations.
[quote]Plowman wrote:
I welcome your figures and recommendations.[/quote]
Have you looked at LEF blood testing? I believe, as an example, that the entire sex hormone panel is $300.
Thanks. Your post lead me to do a quick search of other prices. Indeed, they are lower than Quest. Without insurance, though, and repeated at least three times a year, it’s still approaching four figures. And you’d still have to pay for the draw and the follow-up consult with the doctor.
By the way, the prices I posted were with insurance. Should anyone find after the blood draw that his insurance won’t cover the protocol, he’d be charged as a cash patient which, in the cruelest of ironies, would be much more.
I wonder how accommodating the average M.D. would be if we requested a more obscure diagnostic center. The larger companies pre-arrange prices with the doctors. I wonder if liability incentives come into play too for contracted work. These things may intimidate a doctor out of a patient’s fair market decision on who runs the test. Don’t know. Just wondering.
[quote]cesliwakan wrote:
Plowman wrote:
“And if you have insurance, will they cover TRT?”
Yes. And another caveat. The T itself is negligable. I pay about 45 dollars per vial, and it’s compounded at the pharmacy so they tend to overfill. No doubt the Costco pharmacies and their kind are even cheaper.
But the blood tests can run over a thousand dollars. It depends on how thorough and self-protective the doctor wants to be.
I’m encouraged that T may help recovery from injuries. It certainly makes intuitive sense. A cruel irony here is that, when on T in the past, I’d sometimes push my tendons a bit too fast, focused as I was from the strength increase. But wisdom came with age.
if tests run over a thousand dollars how do you expect a guy in their 20’s to get T levels checked?[/quote]
Im 27. I have insurance. I full round of tests, and Im talking EVERYTHING, costs 1300 bucks, and my insurance covers about 1000 of it. So its about 300 bucks. IGF-1 is the pricey test. If I dumped that, I would be paying around 2 ish…