According to the model, on that last set of 5 chins, where you’re fatigued and can only do 5 reps, they all count.
But remember, the model is just a way to think about reps, not a true scientific explanation of why muscles grow.
Dudes still grow without pushing to failure every set.
Effective reps require “recovery” before there can be “adaptation.”
This is another variable to complex the muscle growth formula.
I believe that every rep with a reasonable amount of weight has some degree of effectiveness. Now consider this: the less effective the reps, the faster the recovery. Keep in mind, until recovery is sufficient, adaptation does not start.
What we are all presented with is a balance between effectiveness, and recovery and adaptation capability. We all have our own balance. It is on you to discover what your balance is.
Effectiveness is in your control.
Recovery and adaptation is all genetic with equal nutrient intake.
So you control your training strategy and your nutrient intake. But we are given the recovery and adaptation capability that we are dealt. (AAS help to increase recovery and adaptation, but it has its ceiling, that is different for everyone.)
I have never been able to do basically anything without obsessing over what I do, because I want the best results. It’s a personality trait that has made me stop doing things because it becomes such a stressor that it is a net negative in my life. I am trying to figure out how to not do that anymore.
I reduced volume from 2 sets to failure to 1 on all exercises and within 10 days my fatigue went away. Now I feel back to normal. I think most of the fatigue was from doing too many sets of OHP and RDL because my shoulders, lower back and hamstrings were the last to recover completely and once they did I felt better.
I hit chest every once in a while but chest is by far the easiest body part for me to grow to the point where I look ridiculous. I’m not going to progress my chest until my arms get 1-2 inches bigger and I lose some fat.
I am going to do this. I have always micromanaged my lifting and put a lot of pressure on myself to do certain things. I need to just build a baseline of the habit of training and then I can optimize it if I need to.
I did that with my diet. I tracked every calorie and macro for a decade. Then I realized it didn’t actually do much for me except stress me out and actually made me think about food more. So now I don’t track at all, I just eat filling foods, focus on other things, get my steps and my sleep so my hunger signals are working right. That is working for me as far as nutrition. I still track protein and fat but I don’t keep a running tally in my head all day and care if I eat an extra 10g of fat one day. I just eat 30-50g protein per meal and 10-20g fat per meal.
if I just stop putti g pressure on myself I could go to the gym every day. It’s just me thinking “I have to hit this pr” that makes me not want to go because I can’t hit the pr. Its stressful. But I mean yeah I could go every day if I could just do whatever I felt like on that day. Not sure if I would make progress or not that way though
Ok good. I’ve always wondered that. Thanks.
I think there might be a neural component to it too. Because for the past couple of weeks 10 pullups got harder over time doing 1 set twice a week. But I just did 3 sets of 7 yesterday and I feel like I could do 11-12 today. Like my mind is more in tune with the movement. So maybe more volume keeps your mind more in tune with the movement so you can express more strength. But that’s just a theory
I have never been able to do basically anything without obsessing over what I do, because I want the best results. It’s a personality trait that has made me stop doing things because it becomes such a stressor that it is a net negative in my life. I am trying to figure out how to not do that anymore.
So think about this. By your own admission, you’ve spent 13 years staying a novice because your pursuit of the best results has forced you to spin your wheels.
Consider how much further ahead you’d be if you settled on just “good enough” and kept at THAT for 13 years.
Probably more progress than not going to the gym.
Basically echoing @T3hPwnisher. I think you already get it, though. Just get in and do whatever and it’s going to be better than not doing.
Well in that case I could go every day easily and it would be a lot less stressful and easier to stick to. I’ll do it
You just described Dan John’s “Easy Strength” program. Also posted here as the “40 workout program”
It’s worth noting, though, that these days he does NOT advocate the squat in the workout…which is something you’d appreciate. Instead, it’s an upper body push, an upper body pull, a hinge, a loaded carry, and the ab wheel
Thanks, but I think even if I do an easy program I will get anxiety about doing certain things. I’m just going to try going in and doing whatever I feel like and see what happens. I mean it can’t be worse than not doing anything even if I just do a set of RDL and then some triceps and some curls or something.
maybe I won’t even log my lifts and see how that goes. Idk if thats a good idea
The recommendation is still 10-20 sets a week. I used to always do 1 set to failure. Wish I would have increased volume. As soon as I increased volume/frequency, weight shot up. Been doing that the last 10 years or so and, yes, strength is another game, but hypertrophy works on volume. Also, need to go close to failure without destroying your body. If you are a true beginner, hit full body 3 days a week: a leg movement, a push movement, pull movement, and some dedicated arms/shoulders if you wish. Four sets of everything. Keep reps between 8-15. Eat sleep and repeat.
From what I understand, isn’t strength training just the expression of strength rather than the building of strength? Since you need muscle to perform the exercise and apparently muscle grows with volume, hypertrophy training builds strength (and size) while strength training expresses the strength you built in the hypertrophy block.
Maybe I just don’t want to believe that just doing a handful of sets to 3RIR or so is how to make gains when I have been busting my ass going to failure and not making much gains. I have grinded bench and OHP reps for 5+ seconds before, that’s how much intensity I am used to. So when I do a few 3RIR sets it’s like I barely did anything
How does that explain the strength of a 148lb Powerlifter? The lighter weight classes in Powerlifting are not mass monsters. Reconcile that.
The Powerlifter “expresses” the strength he built from strength training. Powerlifting training seldom ever includes max singles. Those are “expressed” during a Powerlifting Meet.
That is a good point. Maybe it just comes down to learning technique and having good genetics for neural drive. But I have no idea
I went to the gym today and ended up doing my whole routine minus the biceps and pullups I did yesterday. Took about 2 hours
Here’s what I just did:
BB OHP 3RIR - 95lbs 6 85lbs 7 80lbs 6,
Overhead Tricep Rope Single Arm 3RIR - 15lbs 15-11-10,
JM Press 3RIR - 75lbs 7 65lbs 6 55lbs 10 (not sure if worth doing due to such a decreased load after overhead exercise),
Pinwheel curl 3RIR - 17.5lbs 21 20lbs 11-10,
Leaning lateral raises 3RIR - 20lbs 12-15-15,
BB RDL 3RIR - 240lbs 8
Seated Hamstring Curl 3RIR - 60lbs 9 55lbs 6 50lbs 5 (need to start with much lighter weight)
Leg Extension 3RIR - 120lbs x-x-x (skipped because leg machine taken too long)
Facepulls 3RIR - 22.5lbs 19-17-17
Neck Curls - BW 4x25
It was much easier all around. Doing just 3 RIR is way easier than having to muster up every cell in my body and mind to go to failure. The way I measure 3RIR is I go until it gets notably slower/harder. And for isolations I only rested for 1 minute between sets. Which now that I look at it, is most of my workout.
I wish I could do heavy RDLs for more than 1 set because I like doing them and i want to practice doing them with heavy weight but they take a lot out of me.
So this is a step in the right direction for me. It is much easier for me to convince myself to go lift if all I have to do is go until it gets notably harder, instead of having to convince myself that I have what it takes to go all out like I am in a PL meet every lifting session…
See this is what the internet is all about. Thanks guys. In just this one thread I learned so much from all of you
The reps that slow in tempo are more effective than the previous reps.
Sounds like a good plan for the next couple months. See if you notice a nice strength increase.
There are connections between strength and muscle size for sure. But it isn’t a direction correlation. Decide what you want more - size or strength. Yes, you will get strength with size, but it won’t be the same as someone who is prioritizing strength, as strength is also a reflection of your adaptation to a particular movement and involves, to a greater degree, the nervous system. If you want hypertrophy above all else, you have to train that way. If you want strength above all else, train that way.
And don’t say “handful of sets to 3RIR”. Training for hypertrophy is hard work as well. It hurts, it burns, and 3 RIR isn’t quite failure, though beginners can still gain from that.
Yes, don’t skip that negative…3 second negative on everything is a good rule of thumb. Engage those muscles. You can “try” to move the weight fast on the concentric portion, even if it doesn’t move fast, but control that negative.
The gap has just been the consistency, not the technique. So finding a way you like training enough to stick with it is the best approach.
Do you prefer to be there that long vs more frequently? I would hate that, but if it works for you, don’t change.
I rather just go longer with less days because whether my workout takes an hour or it takes 2 hours my evening is shot anyway due to being tired and there only being a couple hours left until I have to go to sleep again. I also do zone 2 cardio on a couple of non lifting days but that only takes like 30-45 minutes and doesn’t tire me out.
I like this style of training only going to 3RIR with more sets. I am sore right now (which never happens) but I am FAR less fatigued or mentally dreading going back and having performance anxiety. I can actually do stuff outside the gym rather than being beat down and not want to do anything.
I tried doing this “not to failure” training before, but I always took the last set of every exercise to failure so it was still beating me up. Yesterday I kept dropping weight to keep in the rep range and stay in 3RIR. Big difference
Effective reps, even though some would argue whether it’s accurate or not, is STILL the best equalizer of high vs low volume and a silencer to much of the overthinking and noise surrounding peoples training.
5 sets, leave ~3 in the tank each set, ~10 “effective reps”
3 sets, leave ~1-2 in the tank each set, ~10 “effective reps”
2 sets, to failure, ~10 effective reps per set
Yeah in practice you might hit a little higher or lower depending on your perception and how fatigue carries through the sets, but ultimately that is is the jist. The only questions after that is not program related it’s YOU related, and any YOU questions can fluctuate over time. What do I enjoy the most is always the most important to me.
I don’t like 5 sets because I have a tendancy to push a bit too hard and burn out to soon. 2 sets is generally too commital to me, it puts too much pressure on me to perform and I always worry about form breakdown and injury. 3 sets I can pick a weight I know I can handle, keep good technique, and take at least one set pretty close to failure (end set when I know I’ll fail the next rep or break good technique). That’s how I answer my own “YOU” questions right now.
But guess what? And here’s the crazy thing, despite what the internet will have you believe, you don’t have to pick an allegience. I’ve had small niggles that force me to leave a few more reps in the tank for a while so I go a bit higher volume and progress that way whilst getting more of that all important blood flow. I’ve also had periods where I feel I’m overreaching or not recovering fully from 3 sets of a certain exercise but am enjoying pushing it really hard, so I’ll go to 2 sets for a while - just for that exercise.
Many people will rotate through these different training styles throughout the year. And on this 3 second eccentric talk, it’s more stuff you can figure out yourself. I love that shit on leg curls and leg extensions, occasionally I might do it on triceps work. 90% of the other stuff I just worry about controlling the weight. Do you like it on other exercises too? Wonderful. Keep doing it. Add reps and weight over time. Get bigger, get stronger.
Follow a ready made program or learn to evolve based on goals and what your body tells you over time. A lot of the other stuff you read will just harm your consistancy. Get in there and do the work. There will always be time to experiment.
This thread is the classic ask for advice and end up telling everyone else what’s effective by the end.
In my experience, you can do like 2-4 sets per exercise and push really close to Failure or to failure every set with long rest periods in between and grow or train with a lot of sets per exercise like 6-10 with short rest and lower intensity and grow. They both take about the same amount of time in my experience and both are time tested and proven. I think people often seem disappointed with the results of 1 set to failure in a session.
Sorry. I don’t mean to be that way.
So…
1 set to failure = 5 ER’s
10 sets to 3RIR = 20 ER’s
So all I have to do is do 10 sets to 3RIR and I get 4x the muscle? That sounds too good to be true because I could do that easily whereas going to failure is hard. But I will try that out and see how it goes!
That is what I have been feeling like doing for a while but I never let myself do it because I didn’t think it was optimal. I should have just been going by feel rather than what the internet says. That is something I have been realizing. I need to just trust my instinct.
