Are Body Transformations Realisitic?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Chickenmcnug wrote:
IanJMcQ wrote:
Chickenmcnug, I am not really sure how you figured that out, but could you please show me. I am not trying to call you out, I just would like to know for my own knowledge. Thanks.

Takes a bit of work. On that link you will see his before and after stats listed:

Starting Date: May 15, 2007
Starting Weight: 220 lbs
Starting Body Fat: 21%

Finishing Date: Sept. 15, 2007
Current Weight: 165 lbs
Current Body Fat: 9%

220lbs - 165lbs = 55lbs total loss.

@ 220lbs and 21% bf he had 46.2lbs bf(220 x 0.21 = 46.2).
His LBM would be 220 - 46.2 = 173.8lbs

@ 165lbs and 9% bf he had 14.85lbs bf(165 x 0.09 = 14.85).
His LBM would be 165 - 14.85 = 150.15lbs

Gets a little tricky here.

Now during his weightloss he went from 21%bf to 9%bf. 46.2lbs - 14.85lbs = 31.35lbs of bodyfat were lost.

BUT you will see he lost 55lbs total. 55lbs - 31.35lbs = 23.65lbs that were something other than BF. Essentially LBM.

Now to get a percentage you just divide the lbs of bf lost by the total weight lost (i.e. 55lbs).

31.35lbs bf / 55lbs lost = 57% of weight lost is bodyfat

23.65lbs LBM / 55lbs lost = 43% of weight lost.

Well stated. Most bodybuilders would call that a complete FAILURE in fat loss if you lost nearly as much muscle as you did body fat. That is the same shit sedentary housewives do. The average person will lose half and half body fat and muscle if they just “diet” like a slim fast commercial.

The entire goal is to hold onto as much muscle as possible, something that becomes easier the more experience you actually have building it in the first place. Also, 150lbs of lean body mass at that height isn’t impressive to too many people.[/quote]

I was looking at it in terms of what I know. As far as bulking I know that atleast in the early years of one’s bodybuilding career you can easily gain 90% + LBM. I figured that cutting should be somewhat similar. Atleast 70% I guess would be a win.

Also, I would expect the higher your weight class and experience level the more it fluctuates. A 240lb bodybuilder probably bulks to 280 only to cut down to 255. In that case, i wouldn’t consider it a fail.

What % of BF(to LBM) should an average person typically expect to lose if doing it right?

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[quote]Chickenmcnug wrote:

What % of BF(to LBM) should an average person typically expect to lose if doing it right?
[/quote]

No one can answer that because it is too individual. Some people actually gain a little muscle mass when dieting which destroys any number you would even think about applying to this. What we do know is that losing as much muscle as fat is a total failure. Doing that will only decrease your metabolism making it easier to gain fat later on. A bodybuilder’s attention to diet and training is what sets him apart from most people who are jumping on destructive diets left and right.

Body water is another issue. I can drop 8lbs in a week but it would calculate out as being “lean body mass” simply because that reduction is from a loss of mostly body water associated with glycogen (obviously from a low carb diet). That means any true calculation of where I stand could only take place once I carb loaded and filled my muscles with glycogen and water like they were before dieting.

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hmm…a 5’5" guy with 180 pounds LBM! interesting. Unless the guy bulked up over a ew years and lifted hard, I would say his initial body fat calculation was way off.
Also we have to take into consideration the fact that the LBM he lost due to dieting will be easily added back in a relatively short period if he increased his calories from this point onwards and trained for mass. He would probably be shocked by a rapid 25 pound LBM gain (assuming his initial figure was spot on) and then stall somewhat.

I would go so far as to say that he will find it a lot easier to grow back to 220 pounds at a LOWER bf% while adding mass. Personally I doubt a 5’5" guy who claims to be 220@21%

EDIT: he looks extremely solid in the first picture. I would be interested in what he did to get to that point.
I would say he did a poor job maintaining muscle mass on the cut even looking at the picture unless he stored a ton of fat underneath the muscles.

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Well, this has been a real eye opener. I apprecaite all the feedback. Some of the #s I posted were just rough estamites, but the actaul body weights were correct.

Granted, I only had traind for about 1.5 years before I dieted down, I thought I was doing it right.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice as far what they thought I should focus on in terms of training and diet now, and before I decide to compete again. I know I can look all over T-Nation for great advice, but since I have some of your personal attention I want to jump at this opprotunity. Thanks

25

[quote]UkpairehMombooto wrote:
hmm…a 5’5" guy with 180 pounds LBM! interesting. Unless the guy bulked up over a ew years and lifted hard, I would say his initial body fat calculation was way off.
Also we have to take into consideration the fact that the LBM he lost due to dieting will be easily added back in a relatively short period if he increased his calories from this point onwards and trained for mass. He would probably be shocked by a rapid 25 pound LBM gain (assuming his initial figure was spot on) and then stall somewhat.

I would go so far as to say that he will find it a lot easier to grow back to 220 pounds at a LOWER bf% while adding mass. Personally I doubt a 5’5" guy who claims to be 220@21%

EDIT: he looks extremely solid in the first picture. I would be interested in what he did to get to that point.
I would say he did a poor job maintaining muscle mass on the cut even looking at the picture unless he stored a ton of fat underneath the muscles.[/quote]

My response above was off the top of my head late last night. After actually checking the link I have to pretty much go along with this. He looks neither 220 nor 21% BF in that before pic. Photos can be deceiving, but still. Franco was about that height if I remember right and was competing in the then under 200 class in the Olympia in the 70’s.

Does anybody think a guy the same height is around 30 pounds heavier without bordering on some definition of obese? There’s no possible way he’s carrying near as much LBM as Columbu was and is claiming 30 more pounds in the before pic without being very fat at all.

Besides, he looks better in the before if you ask me. In any case this guy sacrificed way too much muscle in this so called transformation. If he’s happy fine, but I would’ve changed strategies long before getting to that point if it were me.

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I made my own transformation several years ago. It took about a year to lose 90 to 100lbs of body fat, but the first 70lbs came off in the first six months. Here is the before and after going from around 290lbs to about 195lbs. I’ve kept it off for about 9 years and have since put on about 25 to 30 lbs of muscle.

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[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:
I made my own transformation several years ago. It took about a year to lose 90 to 100lbs of body fat, but the first 70lbs came off in the first six months. Here is the before and after going from around 290lbs to about 195lbs. I’ve kept it off for about 9 years and have since put on about 25 to 30 lbs of muscle.
[/quote]

Good job.

I will point out, however, that the approach of someone who is very obese is drastically different than that of someone in a more “normal” range of body fat percentage. Very often, health is the main issue when losing that much fat, not the maintenance of muscle mass.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Good job.

I will point out, however, that the approach of someone who is very obese is drastically different than that of someone in a more “normal” range of body fat percentage. Very often, health is the main issue when losing that much fat, not the maintenance of muscle mass.[/quote]

I’m not sure I understand your point here. I didn’t mention how I lost the weight. The way I did lose it I doubt would be drastically different than what someone in a normal range would do. In fact I gained muscle during that time. I took in high lean protein (250 to 330 grams a day), very low carbs (< 50 grams a day), and lifted 5 or 6 days a week. I did little to no cardio during that time. The only supplements I took during that time beside whey was hydroxy cut back when it still had ehpedra in it.

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[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Good job.

I will point out, however, that the approach of someone who is very obese is drastically different than that of someone in a more “normal” range of body fat percentage. Very often, health is the main issue when losing that much fat, not the maintenance of muscle mass.

I’m not sure I understand your point here. I didn’t mention how I lost the weight. The way I did lose it I doubt would be drastically different than what someone in a normal range would do. In fact I gained muscle during that time. I took in high lean protein (250 to 330 grams a day), very low carbs (< 50 grams a day), and lifted 5 or 6 days a week. I did little to no cardio during that time. The only supplements I took during that time beside whey was hydroxy cut back when it still had ehpedra in it.

[/quote]

No one would doubt that you gained some muscle. I would expect the same from most sedentary people who picked up training whether they were dropping body fat or not. The point being made to you is that this thread was about the more typical body transformations featured in magazines. In most of them, the person has already laid the ground work and in more cases than not is some competing bodybuilder who they caught in the off season who just has to diet down again to look impressive. For someone closer to a leaner body weight, the maintenance of muscle mass is the primary concern because it can be easily lost if any component is absent whether it be eating or training.

In other words, the actions of an experienced lifter trying to drop weight are different and require more attention to detail than someone going from very obese to “normal” in terms of body fat percentage.

30

[quote]Professor X wrote:
No one would doubt that you gained some muscle. I would expect the same from most sedentary people who picked up training whether they were dropping body fat or not. The point being made to you is that this thread was about the more typical body transformations featured in magazines. In most of them, the person has already laid the ground work and in more cases than not is some competing bodybuilder who they caught in the off season who just has to diet down again to look impressive. For someone closer to a leaner body weight, the maintenance of muscle mass is the primary concern because it can be easily lost if any component is absent whether it be eating or training.

In other words, the actions of an experienced lifter trying to drop weight are different and require more attention to detail than someone going from very obese to “normal” in terms of body fat percentage.[/quote]

Ok I see what you are saying, but just to clarify, I was an experienced lifter long before my weight got out of control. The weight gain stemmed from life getting in the way syndrom. Marriage, transitioning from contruction work to a desk job etc. I had been lifting for over 10 years before I gained the weight, so I wasn’t just the average fat person who had never lifted. I had a good base it was just covered in fat, and took me getting off my ass and back in the gym to get back to it.

31

good job, man. you should have your own thread on the photos section.

[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
No one would doubt that you gained some muscle. I would expect the same from most sedentary people who picked up training whether they were dropping body fat or not. The point being made to you is that this thread was about the more typical body transformations featured in magazines. In most of them, the person has already laid the ground work and in more cases than not is some competing bodybuilder who they caught in the off season who just has to diet down again to look impressive. For someone closer to a leaner body weight, the maintenance of muscle mass is the primary concern because it can be easily lost if any component is absent whether it be eating or training.

In other words, the actions of an experienced lifter trying to drop weight are different and require more attention to detail than someone going from very obese to “normal” in terms of body fat percentage.

Ok I see what you are saying, but just to clarify, I was an experienced lifter long before my weight got out of control. The weight gain stemmed from life getting in the way syndrom. Marriage, transitioning from contruction work to a desk job etc. I had been lifting for over 10 years before I gained the weight, so I wasn’t just the average fat person who had never lifted. I had a good base it was just covered in fat, and took me getting off my ass and back in the gym to get back to it.

[/quote]