Arachidonic Acid?

Nutrition
21

[quote]Doc L wrote:

I seriously must have missed something Bill (and I did read it twice to be sure). What is he speculating? And…if you have studies that show that AA is not proinflammatory send 'em my way. [/quote]

Speculating that the horrible things he said ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN MAN from bodybuilding-type dietary intake rich in arachidonic acid – the amounts often easily matching and exceeding amounts provided by separate supplementation – such as for example high egg consumption.

Or for that matter he’s speculating that it happens with the supplement.

I highly doubt that your biochemistry text states the effect of dietary administration of AA, as the only change to diet, let alone in the context of a bodybuilding type diet and training regime; or for example effect of administration of eggs.

The speculation is that the biochemistry facts related to this yield the health effects he claims in the bodybuilding context of arachidonic acid intake.

22

Are you asking because it’s in the Halodrol LG formula? If so PM me.

23

chicken shit

24

[quote]jCaesar88 wrote:
fightnews10 wrote:
Thanks but three eggs over medium is my limit.

Lol pussy ass bitch. You amuse me. Keep talking.
How old are you? Your stats?
More importantly, why are you talking about arachidonic acid, when you have no clue what’s on your plate on a regular basis?
Shit, even I didn’t pull shit like this when I was a total n00b.

You should be glad that there are nice people like Mr. Roberts over here giving you advice, and not brushing them off with your “my momma recommends to eat this” comment.
Like I said, keep talking.[/quote]

Nice pussy.

25

Bill,

Ok, so I think I see your stance on this. If we were dealing with an ordinary Joe I would argue with you till the end of time about the ill effects of a diet high in AA.

But…after thinking about it and taking the element of training into consideration I can see how this may be beneficial here as inflammation is required for the proper healing of trauma. Hmmm, therefore, when dealing with the hard training that we do here, the AA would be neccessary for microtrauma repair and GROWTH.

Thanks Bill! Still learning here. My specialties lie elsewhere.

26

Sorry Bill thought people would get he was giving his opinion from the tone of his reply. I know some people cant see the difference between fact and opinion.(I do not mean for this to come off as dickish.You are the last person I would want to offend.)

Assuming you are on diet that is high in fat and protein, do you think that you would really need to minimize your omega 3 intake to see some type of gains from high omega 6 fats, or would both fats be competing, for lack of a better term, to be used, thus negating the effects of the omega 6 fat. Sorry if this doesn’t make sense, but I think the logical assumption would be they would both get used, but human anatomy and physiology always seem to defy everything I think I know.

I know that most people already have a high omega 6 intake and thats why products like Flameout exists, though not solely for that reason. But in my opinion I see too many benefits from having both fats be balanced, maybe even more omega 3. (In no way am I trying to demonize anything just something that I think makes sense.)

This is all very strange from someone (read:me) that has eaten so many eggs that I gave birth to a chicken and feels as if a calf is on the way.

27

[quote]Doc L wrote:
Bill,

Ok, so I think I see your stance on this. If we were dealing with an ordinary Joe I would argue with you till the end of time about the ill effects of a diet high in AA.

But…after thinking about it and taking the element of training into consideration I can see how this may be beneficial here as inflammation is required for the proper healing of trauma. Hmmm, therefore, when dealing with the hard training that we do here, the AA would be neccessary for microtrauma repair and GROWTH.

Thanks Bill! Still learning here. My specialties lie elsewhere.

[/quote]

There’s just way too much tendency for authors in bodybuilding to take a given biochemical fact or two and then make logical-seeming conclusions from this, without worrying if there is any evidence that in practice it works out that way.

Sometimes it’s just not so.

It can be just as bad outside of bodybuilding as well of course, for example assuming things such as “well, we call high total lipoprotein levels ‘high cholesterol’ and that is bad, and eggs contain cholesterol, therefore eating eggs must raise blood levels of what we call cholesterol there!”

Without feeling the slightest need to see if eggs actually do worsen blood lipid profile.

Sadly, this sort of thing is fairly endemic.

28

[quote]riverhawk23 wrote:
Sorry Bill thought people would get he was giving his opinion from the tone of his reply. I know some people cant see the difference between fact and opinion.(I do not mean for this to come off as dickish.You are the last person I would want to offend.)

Assuming you are on diet that is high in fat and protein, do you think that you would really need to minimize your omega 3 intake to see some type of gains from high omega 6 fats, or would both fats be competing, for lack of a better term, to be used, thus negating the effects of the omega 6 fat. Sorry if this doesn’t make sense, but I think the logical assumption would be they would both get used, but human anatomy and physiology always seem to defy everything I think I know.

I know that most people already have a high omega 6 intake and thats why products like Flameout exists, though not solely for that reason. But in my opinion I see too many benefits from having both fats be balanced, maybe even more omega 3.

This is all very strange from someone (read:me) that has eaten so many eggs that I gave birth to a chicken and feels as if a calf is on the way.[/quote]

Oh, certainly nothing to apologize about.

It’s true he expresses it as opinion that it has “very powerful downsides” and “too much potential risk” and so forth, but that doesn’t change that this opinion is based on speculation, as I explained, which winds up looking really weak – at best – when considering the studies showing no measurable adverse health outcomes from high egg consumption, which is at least one way of obtaining high AA intake.

On your question of whether his opinion is that one would need to minimize omega-3 intake to obtain benefit from arachidonic acid: I think that is just speculation as well. Again, I don’t know about isolated arachidonic acid, but most certainly omega-3 intake doesn’t take away from the bodybuilding benefits of eggs. I don’t think it’s ever been observed to take away from the bodybuilding benefit of anything.

It’s also mistaken even in theory that the body can’t use arachidonic acid if omega-3’s are present in good quantity.

Personally I think the omega-6 issue is really too much linoleic acid, not too much AA or GLA. Or at least not typically and not when the rest of the diet is decent. Just lumping them all together on account of a shared double bond location and making conclusions from that or summing them together is an oversimplification.

29

Perhaps you should read today’s article over on FA. That one will make steam come out of your ears. Not only is the article not referenced, it is well…you should check it out.

30

FA?

Edit: Figure Athlete?

If so, would you mean the “alive” vs “dead” food article?

I just scanned it. Or really just the beginning of it. It managed to combine both unwarranted assertions about enzymes and the acid load stuff all into one article.

31

I started over there but I wander over here often as I find you guys more informative and fun!

Oh yeah, that’s the one. It gets much, much worse. Such as “fructose is slowly broken down into sucrose and glycogen”.

It’s getting a big late here on the east coast so I’m off. Have a good night!

32

Ouch!! (On the double error of sucrose and glycogen. I guess to go with the double scored on enzymes and acid-load.)

Goodnight! :slight_smile:

33

Ahahaha cute how OP goes all “guys guys I;m the victim here” and then goes onto PMing me with fallacious attempts for an insult.
Ahhh, highschool kids these days =]

34

Thanks Bill. This cleared up a lot of thoughts that were running through my head.

35

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
riverhawk23 wrote:
Here is Justin Harris’ take on over at elitefts.

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=88427&tid=140

He is speculating rather than pointing to actual findings.

The fact is, there have been some studies of, for example, high egg consumption. The adverse health effects he claims are not seen in those studies, “despite” quite high AA intake.

Now, as for isolated AA, I don’t know. But there is I think no reason to do that, as it is easily enough acquired from quality bodybuilding foods – though, obviously, there are those that shy away from eggs and red meat and things like that. That stuff just oozes of testosterone, you know. Yuck. Not very metrosexual.
[/quote]

Swing and a miss Bill. I’m a chef, I eat real food. Not gross, faggy hard boiled eggs 12 times a day.

36

[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
riverhawk23 wrote:
Here is Justin Harris’ take on over at elitefts.

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=88427&tid=140

He is speculating rather than pointing to actual findings.

The fact is, there have been some studies of, for example, high egg consumption. The adverse health effects he claims are not seen in those studies, “despite” quite high AA intake.

Now, as for isolated AA, I don’t know. But there is I think no reason to do that, as it is easily enough acquired from quality bodybuilding foods – though, obviously, there are those that shy away from eggs and red meat and things like that. That stuff just oozes of testosterone, you know. Yuck. Not very metrosexual.

Swing and a miss Bill. I’m a chef, I eat real food. Not gross, faggy hard boiled eggs 12 times a day.
[/quote]

First, no one said 12 times a day. Those who are not as light in the loafers as you are don’t assume, with regard to eating 12 eggs per day, that they can only eat one egg at a time.

More importantly: If you won’t eat a food that would be good for your bodybuilding purposes because you don’t like it then you are a pussy and/or not dedicated enough to be wasting our time.

Besides, who said hard boiled.

Add them raw to your protein shakes.

Or scramble them.

Or as you are a chef, if you can’t create a tasty dish using say 6 eggs and have that twice a day then you are not much of a chef.

The real issue is you don’t WANT to because what you LIKE outweighs what it does for you for bodybuilding, obviously.

Which is a wimpy, loser attitude for a weightlifter.

The truth may hurt, I know.

On the taste: Do you think, back when I took arginine and glutamine, that I liked the taste of 25 g’s of BCAA’s, 10 g of glutamine, and 10 g of arginine?

Do you think our customers who used the MAG-10 product I developed, back when it was liquid, liked the taste?

The difference is, they were not light in the loafers and were actually dedicated to lifting, in preference to their delicate little palates. “Ick, it’s faggy! It’s gross!!” I can just imagine you saying.

Butch up.

37

[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
riverhawk23 wrote:
Here is Justin Harris’ take on over at elitefts.

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=88427&tid=140

He is speculating rather than pointing to actual findings.

The fact is, there have been some studies of, for example, high egg consumption. The adverse health effects he claims are not seen in those studies, “despite” quite high AA intake.

Now, as for isolated AA, I don’t know. But there is I think no reason to do that, as it is easily enough acquired from quality bodybuilding foods – though, obviously, there are those that shy away from eggs and red meat and things like that. That stuff just oozes of testosterone, you know. Yuck. Not very metrosexual.

Swing and a miss Bill. I’m a chef, I eat real food. Not gross, faggy hard boiled eggs 12 times a day.
[/quote]

I’m guessing from this and your other post you eat hard boiled eggs 3 times a day?

38

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
fightnews10 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
riverhawk23 wrote:
Here is Justin Harris’ take on over at elitefts.

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=88427&tid=140

He is speculating rather than pointing to actual findings.

The fact is, there have been some studies of, for example, high egg consumption. The adverse health effects he claims are not seen in those studies, “despite” quite high AA intake.

Now, as for isolated AA, I don’t know. But there is I think no reason to do that, as it is easily enough acquired from quality bodybuilding foods – though, obviously, there are those that shy away from eggs and red meat and things like that. That stuff just oozes of testosterone, you know. Yuck. Not very metrosexual.

Swing and a miss Bill. I’m a chef, I eat real food. Not gross, faggy hard boiled eggs 12 times a day.

First, no one said 12 times a day. Those who are not as light in the loafers as you are don’t assume, with regard to eating 12 eggs per day, that they can only eat one egg at a time.

More importantly: If you won’t eat a food that would be good for your bodybuilding purposes because you don’t like it then you are a pussy and/or not dedicated enough to be wasting our time.

Besides, who said hard boiled.

Add them raw to your protein shakes.

Or scramble them.

Or as you are a chef, if you can’t create a tasty dish using say 6 eggs and have that twice a day then you are not much of a chef.

The real issue is you don’t WANT to because what you LIKE outweighs what it does for you for bodybuilding, obviously.

Which is a wimpy, loser attitude for a weightlifter.

The truth may hurt, I know.

On the taste: Do you think, back when I took arginine and glutamine, that I liked the taste of 25 g’s of BCAA’s, 10 g of glutamine, and 10 g of arginine?

Do you think our customers who used the MAG-10 product I developed, back when it was liquid, liked the taste?

The difference is, they were not light in the loafers and were actually dedicated to lifting, in preference to their delicate little palates. “Ick, it’s faggy! It’s gross!!” I can just imagine you saying.

Butch up.[/quote]

You’re way of base. I don’t like eggs that much so fuck off.

39

but but but

you’re a chef…

40

Yes: it’s clear the only thing he has real dedication to lifting is kitchen utensils, loaded with what most pleases his delicate palate.