MSM is not covering this as usual but if you do a bit of searching around the internet there is a lot of talk about some young men having heart issues post-vaccine. I seem to remember someone here posting about a racing heart. That is what got me snooping around using my google-fu.
For guys like me that cycle worrying about my heart is more important than what my E2 has gone to. Anyone here cycling and having some weird heart issues not normal with past cycles?
I got my 2nd Pfeizer shot today in the morning. So far all is good. If i never write on Tnation again, im dead 
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I had both Pfeizer shots too. Only side was PIP on the second. First was smooth as butter.
Did u get Vaccine because you believe in that virus and are afraid of it, or did you do it just to get back to normal life and get people off your back?
I think it was @blshaw who mentioned he was in the middle of a cycle or maybe he was just taking 4iu’s of HGH and had mentioned he had received the moderna shot. My mind ain’t what it used to be and had asked about Supraventricular tachycardia. Then unreal mentioned an RHR of 100 is tachycardia.
I am scheduled for mine but I am in the middle of a 500mg/w blast and I already worry about my heart. I have no idea what heart inflammation does hopefully some who does will post. Looking at you, unreal24278, @lordgains
Its basic statistics.
For example… 100 people each day get new health problems. After we start to vaccinate people with a rate of 1% a day, in 20 days, we would have vaccinated 20 out of 100 people who get a new health problem and now we will say that it occured because of the vaccine.
My point is - there will be a time, when EVERYONE who got vaccine will die. They would die anyway, but just because they got the vaccine, tin-foils hats will say that its because of the vaccine.
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I was never super scared of Covid for myself personally, but was for my elderly relatives. A big part was wanting to go back to normal.
As a heads up, if this thread can’t stay on topic and focus on the straightforward question in the opening post, it will be merged with the long-running COVID thread where you can discuss theories, thoughts on the vaccine itself, and other issues inappropriate for the Pharma section.
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Yes I saw this article come out after having my issues. It concerned me. I stopped my HGH and within 2-3 days my issue has resolved. My RHR is back to normal and my BP is no longer high. My issue was more likely to do with the HGH which is a shame. I only made it through 2 months and was starting to reap the benefits. I have two months supply left so I may just try andother vial and see if it comes back or scrap it. Either way it looks like I can continue my cycle just perhaps not with the HGH.
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There has been a lot of data coming out about the Pfizer vaccine and heart muscle inflammation in young men. It seems to be common (with common meaning 1 in 20.000 from primary data). I don’t know what’s going on mechanistically. There’s different kinds of heart inflammation, some are cause by bacteria (for example Streptococcus strains) or viruses of the common cold (such as Corona viruses) but often the heart muscle inflammation stems from a reaction of the immune system against the heart. A COVID vaccine clearly stimulates the immune system, maybe making it possible for the immune system to overreact. But why it targets the heart, I don’t know. Maybe it doesn’t, and it is just that if another organ/body part is hit, it is not life threatening and goes unrecognized.
A good friend of mine (a chick), her grand mother’s cardiac output went from relatively normal for her age to 20% after the second vaccine. At least that’s what she told me.
With steroid usage I don’t think there should be increased risk (at least it would not make sense to me. Cant imagine a mechanism) but if there’s already damage to the heart because of abuse, it can clearly make matters worse if the heart muscle gets inflamed.
I got the Pfizer vaccine although I knew of these cases. I think it’s rare but we’ll see how common it is. I know a few people at my age (mid twenties) who got the vaccine because they are scared. They are absolutely delusional and are always scared of everything. Everybody else just does it to get his life back. I don’t think there should be any restrictions on anybody under 30 as soon as all people over 65 are vaccinated. Too many studies showing basically no risk at all if you’re not severely obese at 15. These kids usually got the vaccine already.
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Are you referring to the lady that convinced herself she was now magnetized after receiving her vaccine 
. I got 2 by Moderna; so far no racing heart, no magnetism (I had already bought my super hero outfit), no connection to the space lasers, can’t see sounds or hear lights, no radio communication from the deep state telling me where the next meetings is, nothing but NO COVID has happened since getting the shots
Hi Chris, As the forum director if your mod team can’t delete the individual off-topic posts I would rather you lock the thread. Almost everyone I care about on this forum has posted and commented. I got my answer. Would I like to continue this discussion yes but I don’t want a pro vs con covid bitch fest.
thanks for giving us the best men’s health forum on the internet.
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No heart issues that I’ve heard of among all the guys I know personally, most of which were vaccinated. I’m the only guy in my personal life that’s on TRT or PEDs, so not a big datapoint, but no issues to report (3 months vaccinated)
As I understand it, there aren’t any good data on this, just slightly more than normal reports of it. Most (all?) occurred in young men and adolescents, and cases were mild.
As far as the pro vs con bitch fest, hopefully whatever decision you choose, the people in your life will respect your choice. Just do your research and make a decision that feels right for you.
Thanks @lordgains I was wondering exactly what heart inflammation was and did.
I think I will wait on my vaccine until my blast is over. I have no clue if my heart muscle has any damage I am almost 68 and I have not lived a clean life that whole time. My BP does go up when blasting but I have 2mg Doxazosin as well as 100mg Atenolol. When blasting I check my pressure 3-4 times per day. I don’t get worried unless i go over 130/80 That is my max before taking something. I try and target 120/70
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Extremely rare side effect noted with Pfizer vaccine. On the other hand, cardiac inflammation mediated from covid 19 is rather common
I had a racing heart rate for around 24 hours post vaccine due to an immune mediated response (fever etc). Totally normal response
Flu vaccine can also cause myocarditis.
Apologise if my tone is stern, but I have little tolerance for any kind of anti vax rhetoric. This kind of misinformation is the reason people aren’t getting vaccinated in Aus, resulting in a hermit society with permanently closed borders.
I swear to GOD if the Australian government starts a cascade of fear mongering over Pfizer and Moderna I’ll lose my shit.
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The Pfizer vaccine seems to cause more cases of myocarditis and pericarditis than covid 19 itself. The jury is still out, but case reports in one are rare while for the other are numerous. Maybe because more people got the vaccine than the virus, I don’t know, could be other factors. But most likely covid itself does not cause the type of cardiac inflammation we are talking about here in the same numbers in the same group of people (16-24 year olds mostly!).
What do you think about an increased risk during steroid use?
I think it is possible because of the increased stimulation of the heart (Dopaminergic, noradrenergic pathways) but very unlikely.
I don’t think this thread drifted into this direction. It seems @hrdlvn was concerned which I was too (especially since I’m way way younger and have basically no risk from covid itself). I’m pro vaccination as the data is very positive. I don’t like fear mongering in both directions. Vaccines are not as bad as they are made out to be and covid is also not as bad as it is made out to be (it clearly is bad, but here in Germany some healthy 20 year old people are scared of it, which is due to the fear mongering here).
Fuck man… you think it’s bad in Germany, look up what’s happening in Aus (don’t want to derail thread).
Looks like we won’t be allowed to travel for another year at the very least. Even vaccinated people aren’t exempt from restrictions, and we have domestic state borders shutting over a few cases. Victoria has been in full lockdown for weeks due to a “fourth wave” which consisted of single digit case numbers.
Look up what stage four restrictions entail here. Last thing I’ll say… we have a travel bubble to NZ, but NZ doesn’t have a travel ban. If you go to NZ, leave NZ, come back to NZ and quarantine for a few weeks then come back to Aus you face five years in jail.
I’ve been called out left right and centre for bitching about this… being told I’m overdramatic, but Australians appear legitimately disconnected from the rest of the world at this point. We’ve become an entitled, spoilt brat country that caters towards Australia first and Australia only. We are SO risk averse some 30% of us aren’t willing to even take the vaccine in order to open up.
People want herd immunity (probably not possible), but aren’t willing to take the jab… Plenty of Australian’s are hoping Covid magically disappears. I don’t feel comfortable further detailing my thoughts over this as people are getting arrested for online posts under the guise of “incitement” here.
I’m trying to figure out a way as to how I can advocate for/encourage people to get vaccinated. There is so much misinformation here, I’m sick of younger/older people alike talking about how they’re hesitant to get the jab because of the potential “long term effects”. If you wish to reply to this post, please reply in my wholesome “war on drugs thread” as to avoid derailment.
As to risk/AAS, anything that puts strain on the body will be riskier if AAS is involved in the equation. Barring the immunomodulatory effects AAS inherently have, additive oxidative stress = bad. Getting the flu on AAS = worse than getting the flu without AAS.
Does the vaccine itself equate to additive risk? I don’t know… Anything that facilitates clotting + AAS = likely additive risk, perhaps the same can be said about Pfizer.
Perhaps AAS might alter or enhance a robust immunological response? Women with PCOS appear to be affected more severely by covid, wouldn’t be surprised if androgens can somewhat mediate the severity of sickness in reference to supra concentrations. I believe there is a case report wherein a man on AAS (young male) acquired severe sickness despite lacking traditional risk factors, antiandrogens in the case report ameliorated symptomatology
also some low level studies regarding the blockage of 5AR and anti androgens
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jdv.17021
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jdv.16953
I’m of the opinion the relative effect (if any) regarding sickness severity may pertain more to supra as opposed to “any androgen at all”. The effect AAS has on the renin angiotensin aldosterone system is quite significant. Looking at the mechanisms by which covid enters the body/by which it elicits systemic effects there’s probably a correlation. Does this factor into the vaccine/risk of adverse effects? who knows… maybe… maybe not, I’m certainly on expert
TRT itself doesn’t appear to be associated with a worse outcome
Also, myocarditis is quite common with covid-19… with older demographics (not with kids/teenagers). Unless we refer to the delta variant, then there appears to be a SLIGHT uptick in severe sickness with younger demographics.
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Got a feverish feel around 30hours after the 2nd injection - had like a bit more muscle pain than normal and felt a bit warmer than usual, but it ended in 1 hour and hasnt come back yet.
Crazy. The rest of the world still sees you guys as crocodile dundees. Seems the weakness of our generation doesn’t stop at down under.
True. Since this is the main theory of heart injury in covid 19:
The two main theories foresee a direct role of angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 receptors (ACE2) and a hyperimmune response. SARS-CoV-2 binds to the ACE2 via its spike protein and enters various cells, including epithelial cell and macrophages.
It is quite possible that AAS increase the risk of heart damage, as androgenic steroids directly up regulate ACE2.
This seems also probable to me. Estrogens definitely have a huge effect on the immune system, as far as I know, mostly positive. For androgens it is more complex:
In summary, we found that fT and DHT are probably the hormones most relevant for studying immune parameters potentially affected by androgens. These two reactive forms of androgens positively influence adaptive immunity, i.e. the strength of the response to the influenza vaccine, and appear to have no effect on humoral or cell-mediated innate immunity. This finding contrasts with the immunosuppressive function of androgens observed in vivo . The relationship between androgens and immune function is, however, complex, and probably restricted only to particular immune parameters and does not apply to all. Therefore we suggest treating androgens as immunomodulators rather than immunosuppressants, as supported by the important role of ecological factors in moderating the relationship between immunity and androgens. Further investigations regarding the association between serum androgen concentrations, ARs, and various immune functions are required.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-25694-0
Then in meta analyses it seems myocarditis is not as common in Covid-19 patients as I would have thought:
While the incidence of myocarditis is estimated as 22 per 100,000, the true epidemiology of COVID-19 myocarditis is difficult to establish. This review only summarises reported cases and does not reflect the true incidence in COVID-19, which, for several reasons, is likely to be higher.
(They later discuss that not all measured troponin increases are in fact myocarditis, so they don’t know if it’s actually higher but guess so based on other viruses)
But, I found another study which shows what I would have thought in the first place based on other viruses: 38% of covid patients have some sort of cardiac inflammation (influenza 10%)
In a review of 2,736 patients infected with the virus at Mount Sinai Health System hospitals in New York City, 36% of patients had elevated troponin levels. Patients with underlying cardiovascular disease were more likely to have troponin elevation, and those with elevated troponin were associated with higher mortality rates [58]. Smaller studies from Wuhan, China show at least 20% with cardiac injury.
Regarding the vaccine, theoretically the spike protein could bind to cardiomyoctes and start an immune response making AAS a risk factor. It could also just stimulate the immune system locally and the inflammatory process starts from there. In that case AAS could through estrogens regulate this process and maybe even help.
Difficult to judge.