Anyone Do Only TBT?

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]mthomps wrote:
When and where did I say I’m having trouble growing? All i said was switching styles would probably make me grow “like a weed.” Get off your church podium and stop preaching like a bodybuilding guru. lol.

[/quote]

Don’t be a douche, I’m trying to answer this:

[quote]mthomps wrote:

My biggest worry is, how can I keep getting bigger without giving up what I love to do? [/quote]

Looks to me as though you are asking how to get bigger. It must’ve been where you wrote “how can I keep getting bigger”. Ya think?

Don’t be a prick to someone who was trying to answer the fucking question you posted.

If what you wrote wasn’t what you meant, then say so.

And as for that last part, I’ve already added about 100 lbs to my frame. How about you?

22

Relax bud. The question was meant in the context of me not understanding where the deadlift falls in a split style program.

I came off as a dick with the last comment. And for that I apalogize. In truth it was all fun.

23

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Hmmm…really not trying to sound like a dick, but let’s take a couple of the comments from your post and put them together, and perhaps it might set off a “ureka” moment in you.

“I’ve been training for almost 20 years and have done virtually all TBT. But I still sometimes feel like a beginner. The only people that I see doing TBT are people doing circuits and using only machines. The majority of BB’ers don’t train this way.”

Seriously take a long look at that series of statements.

Do you want to continue wasting your years at the gym and still wind up feeling like a beginner in another 10 years? Then keep on doing what you’ve been doing.

Or, you can change what you are doing to what the big guys around you do and in 10 years be able to look back and wonder why you didn’t wake up sooner.

“The definition of insanity/stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” -unknown author[/quote]

Sorry for the delayed response. It seems like the thread has taken a slightly different tangent, but I still wanted to repond to Sentoguy.

First off, you’re not sounding like a dick. It was a perfectly reasonalble conclusion - I perhaps should have been more specific.

Second, I have made incredible gains in size and strength using TBT and am thankful for every workout. What I was trying to explain falls more on a visceral level rather than on a logical point of view loaded with emperical evidence. I feel that TBT bests splits for most people and it’s bothersome when I see guys half my size telling younger lifters that they should be performing splits when they can’t bench their own weight. I passed that point a mile back but it’s ashame to see all of the mag rags talking trash about splits. I just think it gets younger lifters all out of sorts, confused and frustrated - hopping from routine to routine without having anything to show from it. Again, I’m sure you’ve made great gains from splits, but I’m assuming (just assuming) you’re an advanced lifter who knows what works.

Thirdly, when I said that TBT has a “beginner” persona to it - I meant that eye rolls abound - then they go their way and I go mind which is fine.

Fourth, Einstein wrote “the definition of insanity…”

Much appreciated to all for the comments.

24

[quote]pepperman wrote:

Second, I have made incredible gains in size and strength using TBT and am thankful for every workout. [/quote]

If you don’t mind, please elaborate on the gains and which specific TBT you found to be most beneficial.

When asked to pick a favorite, I’m torn between 20 rep squats and Bill Starr 5x5.

25

i think both definitely have their purposes.

for some reason i almost want to find some study or some great trainers saying splits are better. i dont know why but for some reason i just do. i guess i find them more fun, getting to work the upper body alone and parts of it with more isolations over having to squat 3x a week and not getting much isolation exercises.

honestly though TBT is fine. i think for strength (like bill starrs 5x5 mentioned above) full body workouts are great and having the big compounds each day can definitely work well. splits are more fun like i said but switching between the 2 also prevents boredom

i’ve done splits with good results, gaining plenty of muscle.
i’ve also done full body for a few months while cutting and bulking, both giving good results. so really both work

right now i’m doing a medium approach with an upper/lower split. switching to this from full body has been fun for sure but again theres nothing wrong with full body, i just get a little bored after awhile. honestly though you can certainly work isolations into a full body workout

[quote]derek wrote:

If you don’t mind, please elaborate on the gains and which specific TBT you found to be most beneficial.

When asked to pick a favorite, I’m torn between 20 rep squats and Bill Starr 5x5.
[/quote]

what is the actual 20 rep squat TBT routine?

26

[quote]David1991 wrote:

what is the actual 20 rep squat TBT routine?[/quote]

presses 3x10
bench 3x12
rows 2x15
curls 2x10
squats 1x20
pullovers 1x20
sl deadlifts 1x15
pullovers 1x20
calf raise 2x20
sit ups 1x25

27

damn squats after 3 other exercises? i would not look forward to that lol. one set isnt too bad though

28

[quote]pepperman wrote:
Sorry for the delayed response. It seems like the thread has taken a slightly different tangent, but I still wanted to repond to Sentoguy.

First off, you’re not sounding like a dick. It was a perfectly reasonalble conclusion - I perhaps should have been more specific.

Second, I have made incredible gains in size and strength using TBT and am thankful for every workout. What I was trying to explain falls more on a visceral level rather than on a logical point of view loaded with emperical evidence. I feel that TBT bests splits for most people and it’s bothersome when I see guys half my size telling younger lifters that they should be performing splits when they can’t bench their own weight. I passed that point a mile back but it’s ashame to see all of the mag rags talking trash about splits. I just think it gets younger lifters all out of sorts, confused and frustrated - hopping from routine to routine without having anything to show from it. Again, I’m sure you’ve made great gains from splits, but I’m assuming (just assuming) you’re an advanced lifter who knows what works.

Thirdly, when I said that TBT has a “beginner” persona to it - I meant that eye rolls abound - then they go their way and I go mind which is fine.

Fourth, Einstein wrote “the definition of insanity…”

Much appreciated to all for the comments.

[/quote]

Ahh…ok then, sorry about the misinterpretation.

Yeah, as Derek pointed out, there are some great TBT programs out there for building size and strength. Personally I think that beginners and intermediates would likely progress really well with total body programs. They generally allow for faster progress (more frequent training), which is great for people who aren’t lifting extremely heavy loads and thus taxing their recovery systems to the same extent.

Even as someone enters into the advanced stage, I think something like an upper/lower, push/pull or DC 2 way split is ideal. Still fairly frequent stimulation, but more time to allow for recovery than TBT.

Only really advanced people NEED to do more complicated splits than that (not saying that more complicated splits don’t produce results for less advanced people though).

As far the “beginner” persona and eye rolls, who the heck cares what other people think about your chosen style of training. If it’s working for you and producing results, that should be all that matters. I get weird looks because I’m doing DC and doing things like “extreme stretching” and no one else in the gym trains like I do. But it’s getting me results, so I really don’t worry about it too much.

Glad to hear that I was wrong. Keep up the good work. :slight_smile:

29

[quote]David1991 wrote:
damn squats after 3 other exercises? i would not look forward to that lol. one set isnt too bad though[/quote]

Actually 4 other exercises. And you do 20 reps squats with your 10rm!

30

[quote]derek wrote:
David1991 wrote:
damn squats after 3 other exercises? i would not look forward to that lol. one set isnt too bad though

Actually 4 other exercises. And you do 20 reps squats with your 10rm![/quote]

4, my bad. and yea breathing squats suck…doing that 3x a week would definitely hurt my motivation to go to the gym, especially if i couldnt get it done with in the first set.

31

I pretty much have done 100% TBT. Ive never done a split, at all. My strength results have been great, but my body comp results are not so spectacular.

I think TBT is the best way to go for a good foundation and to develop strength, but there will be a point where you need to do a split to develop a better body.

For example,

When doing TBT I can only hit a small handfull of exercises. They must all be compounds to be more efficient. A typical workout might involve:

Front Squat
Bench
Pullup
Abs
Calves

But with a body part split, you can hit many different exercises for a muscle group for better development, ex:

Incline bench
Flat bench
Decline bench
Flys

Not great at all for strength, but will allow you to work much more muscle and thus build more muscle.

32

[quote]dankid wrote:
I pretty much have done 100% TBT. Ive never done a split, at all. My strength results have been great, but my body comp results are not so spectacular.

I think TBT is the best way to go for a good foundation and to develop strength, but there will be a point where you need to do a split to develop a better body.

For example,

When doing TBT I can only hit a small handfull of exercises. They must all be compounds to be more efficient. A typical workout might involve:

Front Squat
Bench
Pullup
Abs
Calves

But with a body part split, you can hit many different exercises for a muscle group for better development, ex:

Incline bench
Flat bench
Decline bench
Flys

Not great at all for strength, but will allow you to work much more muscle and thus build more muscle.[/quote]

i agree that TBT is great for strength but you can have pretty much just as many exercises in a full body routine as you can in a split and whether or not you gain enough muscle with largely depend on your diet

33

[quote]David1991 wrote:
.

i agree that TBT is great for strength but you can have pretty much just as many exercises in a full body routine as you can in a split and whether or not you gain enough muscle with largely depend on your diet[/quote]

I dunno, I think if you’re doing 3-4 exercises per bodypart in TBT your going to have some long as workouts, and a helluva time recovering. But im sure its possible.

34

[quote]dankid wrote:
David1991 wrote:
.

i agree that TBT is great for strength but you can have pretty much just as many exercises in a full body routine as you can in a split and whether or not you gain enough muscle with largely depend on your diet

I dunno, I think if you’re doing 3-4 exercises per bodypart in TBT your going to have some long as workouts, and a helluva time recovering. But im sure its possible.
[/quote]

thats not what i mean. i mean you distribute it evenly throughout the week.

so say you have 3 exercises you do for chest for 3 sets each in a chest workout. in full body you could do the same but just do one of the exercises per workout.

35

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

Ahh…ok then, sorry about the misinterpretation.

Yeah, as Derek pointed out, there are some great TBT programs out there for building size and strength. Personally I think that beginners and intermediates would likely progress really well with total body programs. They generally allow for faster progress (more frequent training), which is great for people who aren’t lifting extremely heavy loads and thus taxing their recovery systems to the same extent.

Even as someone enters into the advanced stage, I think something like an upper/lower, push/pull or DC 2 way split is ideal. Still fairly frequent stimulation, but more time to allow for recovery than TBT.

Only really advanced people NEED to do more complicated splits than that (not saying that more complicated splits don’t produce results for less advanced people though).

As far the “beginner” persona and eye rolls, who the heck cares what other people think about your chosen style of training. If it’s working for you and producing results, that should be all that matters. I get weird looks because I’m doing DC and doing things like “extreme stretching” and no one else in the gym trains like I do. But it’s getting me results, so I really don’t worry about it too much.

Glad to hear that I was wrong. Keep up the good work. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I agree, for most TBT or a A-B split is the best option. I actually think that a upper-lower or other A-B split, when training 4x week has most of the benefits of TBT in terms of high frequency and hormone output from hitting a lot of muscles at once. You simply trade some frequency for some volume and management of fatigue.

36

Pepperman: i know what are talking about, sometimes someone ask me “what are training today?”, when i answer that i’m training the whole body, people think i dont know shit about training because everybody knows that the right way to do it is spliting in bodyparts.

And people also start to think i have great genetics because i can make gains training completly wrong (actually i have some of the worst genetics for weight training).

37

[quote]derek wrote:
pepperman wrote:

Second, I have made incredible gains in size and strength using TBT and am thankful for every workout.

If you don’t mind, please elaborate on the gains and which specific TBT you found to be most beneficial.

When asked to pick a favorite, I’m torn between 20 rep squats and Bill Starr 5x5.
[/quote]

My best gains have been on TBT picking one exercise per bodypart and “pyramiding” reps from 15 to 5 for large body parts and doing 3 X 8 for smaller body parts. But remember that this was over 20 years ago (I’m 38 now).

I went from 145 pounds to 180 pounds in about 2.5 years all with clean eating. I’m not convinced though that this was the absolutely best approach. If I had it all to do over again, I would probably be a little more Bill Starr and a little less of the above. For me the 3 most important things that I’ve done over the years re: training (diet is a different story) are:

  1. Give the program a chance to work for 30, 60 or even 90 days. These arer basic programs that don’t need alot of tweaking so resist the urge.

  2. Write everything down and track your progress. This is both useful and nostalgic.

  3. Always try to increase something whether it’s
    intensity, weight, reps, sets, etc.

As for your other question 5 x 5 is the best that there is - I think it can take you through years if not a lifetime if you apply appropriate variations. The 20 squat program I feel would be a good program for younger lifters, say 16-20 year olds.

Good luck.

38

[quote]Sagat wrote:
pepperman: i know what are talking about, sometimes someone ask me “what are training today?”, when i answer that i’m training the whole body, people think i dont know shit about training because everybody knows that the right way to do it is spliting in bodyparts.

And people also start to think i have great genetics because i can make gains training completly wrong (actually i have some of the worst genetics for weight training).[/quote]

That medial delt day is a killer.

That’s exactly what I’m saying in that younger and even older lifters are getting a completely skewed picture as to where they should be. For advanced, I have no argument but it’s the newbies that I see performing 20 sets of shoulders, high reps, single joint movements only with BMIs of 20 or less that are the issue.

39

Right now im really liking the upper/lower split. tbt is cool but i really liked how i didnt have to do legs each time and could have days where i just emphasized upper body. plus each muscle is hit with a fairly large volume but not too much, and it gets hit 2x a week.

im taking a week off next week which kinda sucks but i can see my body needing it. then i’m doing a vertical push/pull, leg, horizontal push/pull split.

in one sense it’s a 3-day split but i see it more of a upper/lower split in a way with more emphasis on upper body which is exactly what i would like. only get to train 3x a week though but upper is definitely getting a good amount of work. hopefully that’ll mean more recovery since im working legs less.