fuck no.
- but I actually do like sprinting, however I don’t really call that running anyhow.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
I guess this is a thread only for people who love running, so this may get me kicked out but here I go. Running is the worst type of activity most people can do. Just like most things, I say this because I’m not any good at it. Well, thats not the only reason, but that definitely is a big one.
Just the basic premise doesn’t seem to work. Take an animal weighing between 100 and 250lbs made of soft tissue and take one stride on stone. Repeat several hundred thousand times. What would the logical result of such an activity be? Now being honest I have trained and I have seen some people who can run marathons, and pretty decent mileage per week while still having a body that works pretty damn well.
I’ve seen dozens more with serious soft tissue problems, recruitment issues, that have reached the point where you can say, their body really does not work properly anymore, and its close to a chronic condition. Many runners say there’s just nothing like it, and I guess I can understand that to a certain degree, being out there, on the road, just yourself and a pair of shoes.
But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone. The most natural movement that could be turned into effective exercise is hiking, which may come with its issues as well, but it seems to be alot better for alot of people including myself.
Lastly, I remember I had Mike Boyle for a class when I was getting my Ex Phys degree and this was his take on a marathon which I think sums it up pretty well. “Hundreds of years ago a man ran 26 miles during a war to save his friends and dropped stone-cold dead upon arrival. Now its a fitness event.”
You could also open and close your refrigerator 10,000 times and get rotator cuff surgery to be able to keep it up. GPP is the way to go.[/quote]
Well, you are definitely a dumbass and i will tell you why.
Our physiology points to endurance running.
We are one of the few animals in this world that stands on two legs/feet (bipedal).
Most animals that stand on two feet need some way to stay balanced.
Usually this is done via either a long tail to counter balance (see monkeys and kangaroos) or you must directly support yourself (see other great apes like gorillas and chimps who use their hands).
So basically the only way for us to remain upright is to have some sort of counter weight.
We have this: a huge ass. Kangaroos have long tails but we have a large ass. If you haven’t noticed, most animals have a small or non existent ass (see: gorilla or any other animal).
Also, the way our legs are built make them extremely efficient for long distance running.
The Achilles’ tendon points to this. As does the foot. The arch in the foot (among other things) bends and unbends depending on how you apply pressure.
All these components come together to work like a spring. They are basically shock absorbers.
(Fyi, we are meant to run barefoot, not with shitty high heeled shoes).
Our flatter faces and less protruding features (short forearms, no snout, etc compared to chimps or gorillas) also made it easier for us to balance.
This makes us extremely efficient. Add to the fact that the largest muscles on our body are the glutes and hamstrings, which are the main muscles in running, and you have a pretty solid case for us being geared towards running.
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!
We, unlike many other animals, have the ability to sweat. This allows us to do much work and remain cool. Actually our perspiration is unique to us. Our lack of hair would probably account for something. If it wasn’t for our sweat capabilities, we’d die from over heating (brain generates a lot of heat).
This means in equatorial climate, we’d be fine.
Our anatomy also makes us very efficient at counter rotation via arm movement, which is key in running for bipedals. Our trapezius muscles also allow our head to remain more stable, which makes us…again…more efficient. Other apes have extremely small traps.
Our large shoulders and muscled core allow us to stabilize our body very well (also as i mentioned before, the counter rotation helps).
Add our long legs, and yes, we are built to run. Not sprints, but endurance.
It has been recorded that humans can outrun horses.
That’s how the 100 mile western race came to existence. Western States Endurance Run - Wikipedia
As for your thing about some man running 26 miles to only drop dead, that was a greek messenger who was running from the battle of marathon (name of a greek city, and that’s where the name of the event comes from) to declare that they had won the battle. At this point, it would mean he had ran non stop from a battle in which he had fought in.
So yea, maybe if you fight for a few days with little sleep, food or otherwise and then run 26 miles non stop, you might die.
All that being said, most “experts” (researchers with phds, experts in the field of human physiology and history) agree that humans are built for endurance.
Same tribes still hunt via endurance running.
The san bushmen still do this.
You can read some stuff here: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/may/tramps-like-us
I hope you have been enlightened.
[/quote]
Haha, I was trying to be self-depricating in my response, but that wasn’t good enough huh… ahh…
There are things about the human body that do help it during long bouts of exercise sure, but there probably twice the amount of negatives. So we have all of these special attributes why can’t we outrun wolves, or dogs etc…? Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. We all know without our brains we would have never risen above other species.
But you overlooked one very important point I made sure to make VERY clear. Sure there are native people who track animals for days running a good portion of the time. Do they do it on pavement? Answer is no. Do they do it in shoes with arch support? Answer is no. Those two differences right there are MASSIVE. Comparing some twig legged dipshit out running on the boulevard on the side of the road and people running barefoot on earth is night and day.
So scientists have found where humans are definitely made to run on pavement? Is that what your saying? Because thats what I was saying. Don’t change shit around you dumbass.[/quote]
Lol, cute.
“But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone.”
I apologize, i misread then. I thought you meant that we weren’t built for endurance running.
There are millions of people (or hundreds of thousands, at least) who run recreationally.
All of them use shitty over pronating high heeled running shoes. Many of them run on pavement and many of them are fine.
Fyi, i’ve ran hundreds of kilometers/miles on pavement both barefoot and with shoes on.
My knees are fine. You know, when you run, you don’t have to pound your feet into the “stone” like a retard. You can run softly and that is actually how you are supposed to run.
Like i said, our legs work as springs, so why would this change if the ground is hard or soft?
We can outrun wolves, if it’s on our own turf. If you take into account that we’re not supposed to be wear clothes (naturally) and that we are most comfortable naked near the equator (and not in bumfuck, canada), then yes, we can outrun wolves. The wolves would overheat and die on “our turf”. On their turd, they’d have the advantage.
I just showed you that we can outrun horses.
We can outrun many animals, but it doesn’t mean we run faster than them. We chase and chase and chase and eventually the animal wears out (due to over heating, which we have a great solution for) and we catch it.
You can outrun a cheetah but you can’t run faster.
"Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. "
Please elaborate. What animals are you comparing too? You walk into any forest and you’d probably be able to kill all the animals you encounter except 1 or 2 (bear, wolf, mountain lion, etc).
Is that not good enough? With your bare hands you can kill most animals on this planet. We’re stronger and smarter than most animals, have the gift of endurance and we can manipulate things very well with our hands. What more do you want?
[/quote]
Your being so bias about how physically superior humans are its ridiculous. As to your comment about other mammals, your right we probably could kill all the animals we encounter aside from almost any animal that is of similar size (the three you mentioned as well as any ungulate- deer, bison, antelope etc…) so that leaves what? Bats, mice, squirrels, rabbits. Go outside and catch a few of those and let me know how it goes. Don’t even bring the smarter aspect into this discussion because I’m obviously not disputing that for christ sake. We arent even stronger than our closely related primates that are substantially smaller.
The one attribute we DO have is that we can run, and have pretty good endurance as a whole relative to other species, but its not something we were made for doing, especially on pavement. You mention all the ways humans are made for running, most of which I agree with. Are you also saying that there are not serious flaws in the human biomechanical system that makes running a very poor activity, especially when done for years and years? Also, humans these days live a hell of alot longer and are a hell of alot larger than the native types you talk about. Most of those native types are much shorter with very small frames. I’m willing to talk about both sides of the coin, according to you the human body is close to perfect.[/quote]
I’m not saying humans are superior physically but people really need to stop downplaying us. If If am saying humans are superior physically, then I mean it in terms of endurance running.
I still don’t see what these flaws are considering the number of people who run (marathons, etc) frequently well into their old age. I know several old men who run very very frequently and have, for decades.
We live a hell of a lot longer because of medicine and our environment. The san bushmen have a life expectancy of 45-50 years. What that has to do with running is beyond me.
If a 5’10 power lifter decides to bulk to 275 pounds, and then goes running and blows his knees out, that’s not an argument you can use against running. It’s very difficult, in the natural world, to be able to bulk to such a huge size. I would say that “naturally” we aren’t meant to bulk to such huge sizes.
There may be some flaws in human biomechanics, but i wouldn’t be quick to point them out.
Maybe you could?
As for not being able to jump high: that is besides the point.
“Hey, you might be able to bench 500 pounds, but i can clean and jerk 400, nanana”
Irrelevant.
I like the stress-relief that comes with running. I’m guessing it’s the endorphins, or the adrenalin that comes from sprinting to catch the light 
I’ve heard some bad things about running though. I’ve read on numerous occasions that it lessens your heart’s reserve capacity, making you more susceptible to dying from a sudden sizeable demand on the heart (read: heart attack).
Basically, the body adapts by shrinking the heart muscles to make them more efficient for the long-distance endurance type training. In doing this, it leaves you with smaller less potent heart muscles. Thoughts?
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
I guess this is a thread only for people who love running, so this may get me kicked out but here I go. Running is the worst type of activity most people can do. Just like most things, I say this because I’m not any good at it. Well, thats not the only reason, but that definitely is a big one.
Just the basic premise doesn’t seem to work. Take an animal weighing between 100 and 250lbs made of soft tissue and take one stride on stone. Repeat several hundred thousand times. What would the logical result of such an activity be? Now being honest I have trained and I have seen some people who can run marathons, and pretty decent mileage per week while still having a body that works pretty damn well.
I’ve seen dozens more with serious soft tissue problems, recruitment issues, that have reached the point where you can say, their body really does not work properly anymore, and its close to a chronic condition. Many runners say there’s just nothing like it, and I guess I can understand that to a certain degree, being out there, on the road, just yourself and a pair of shoes.
But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone. The most natural movement that could be turned into effective exercise is hiking, which may come with its issues as well, but it seems to be alot better for alot of people including myself.
Lastly, I remember I had Mike Boyle for a class when I was getting my Ex Phys degree and this was his take on a marathon which I think sums it up pretty well. “Hundreds of years ago a man ran 26 miles during a war to save his friends and dropped stone-cold dead upon arrival. Now its a fitness event.”
You could also open and close your refrigerator 10,000 times and get rotator cuff surgery to be able to keep it up. GPP is the way to go.[/quote]
Well, you are definitely a dumbass and i will tell you why.
Our physiology points to endurance running.
We are one of the few animals in this world that stands on two legs/feet (bipedal).
Most animals that stand on two feet need some way to stay balanced.
Usually this is done via either a long tail to counter balance (see monkeys and kangaroos) or you must directly support yourself (see other great apes like gorillas and chimps who use their hands).
So basically the only way for us to remain upright is to have some sort of counter weight.
We have this: a huge ass. Kangaroos have long tails but we have a large ass. If you haven’t noticed, most animals have a small or non existent ass (see: gorilla or any other animal).
Also, the way our legs are built make them extremely efficient for long distance running.
The Achilles’ tendon points to this. As does the foot. The arch in the foot (among other things) bends and unbends depending on how you apply pressure.
All these components come together to work like a spring. They are basically shock absorbers.
(Fyi, we are meant to run barefoot, not with shitty high heeled shoes).
Our flatter faces and less protruding features (short forearms, no snout, etc compared to chimps or gorillas) also made it easier for us to balance.
This makes us extremely efficient. Add to the fact that the largest muscles on our body are the glutes and hamstrings, which are the main muscles in running, and you have a pretty solid case for us being geared towards running.
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!
We, unlike many other animals, have the ability to sweat. This allows us to do much work and remain cool. Actually our perspiration is unique to us. Our lack of hair would probably account for something. If it wasn’t for our sweat capabilities, we’d die from over heating (brain generates a lot of heat).
This means in equatorial climate, we’d be fine.
Our anatomy also makes us very efficient at counter rotation via arm movement, which is key in running for bipedals. Our trapezius muscles also allow our head to remain more stable, which makes us…again…more efficient. Other apes have extremely small traps.
Our large shoulders and muscled core allow us to stabilize our body very well (also as i mentioned before, the counter rotation helps).
Add our long legs, and yes, we are built to run. Not sprints, but endurance.
It has been recorded that humans can outrun horses.
That’s how the 100 mile western race came to existence. Western States Endurance Run - Wikipedia
As for your thing about some man running 26 miles to only drop dead, that was a greek messenger who was running from the battle of marathon (name of a greek city, and that’s where the name of the event comes from) to declare that they had won the battle. At this point, it would mean he had ran non stop from a battle in which he had fought in.
So yea, maybe if you fight for a few days with little sleep, food or otherwise and then run 26 miles non stop, you might die.
All that being said, most “experts” (researchers with phds, experts in the field of human physiology and history) agree that humans are built for endurance.
Same tribes still hunt via endurance running.
The san bushmen still do this.
You can read some stuff here: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/may/tramps-like-us
I hope you have been enlightened.
[/quote]
Haha, I was trying to be self-depricating in my response, but that wasn’t good enough huh… ahh…
There are things about the human body that do help it during long bouts of exercise sure, but there probably twice the amount of negatives. So we have all of these special attributes why can’t we outrun wolves, or dogs etc…? Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. We all know without our brains we would have never risen above other species.
But you overlooked one very important point I made sure to make VERY clear. Sure there are native people who track animals for days running a good portion of the time. Do they do it on pavement? Answer is no. Do they do it in shoes with arch support? Answer is no. Those two differences right there are MASSIVE. Comparing some twig legged dipshit out running on the boulevard on the side of the road and people running barefoot on earth is night and day.
So scientists have found where humans are definitely made to run on pavement? Is that what your saying? Because thats what I was saying. Don’t change shit around you dumbass.[/quote]
Lol, cute.
“But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone.”
I apologize, i misread then. I thought you meant that we weren’t built for endurance running.
There are millions of people (or hundreds of thousands, at least) who run recreationally.
All of them use shitty over pronating high heeled running shoes. Many of them run on pavement and many of them are fine.
Fyi, i’ve ran hundreds of kilometers/miles on pavement both barefoot and with shoes on.
My knees are fine. You know, when you run, you don’t have to pound your feet into the “stone” like a retard. You can run softly and that is actually how you are supposed to run.
Like i said, our legs work as springs, so why would this change if the ground is hard or soft?
We can outrun wolves, if it’s on our own turf. If you take into account that we’re not supposed to be wear clothes (naturally) and that we are most comfortable naked near the equator (and not in bumfuck, canada), then yes, we can outrun wolves. The wolves would overheat and die on “our turf”. On their turd, they’d have the advantage.
I just showed you that we can outrun horses.
We can outrun many animals, but it doesn’t mean we run faster than them. We chase and chase and chase and eventually the animal wears out (due to over heating, which we have a great solution for) and we catch it.
You can outrun a cheetah but you can’t run faster.
"Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. "
Please elaborate. What animals are you comparing too? You walk into any forest and you’d probably be able to kill all the animals you encounter except 1 or 2 (bear, wolf, mountain lion, etc).
Is that not good enough? With your bare hands you can kill most animals on this planet. We’re stronger and smarter than most animals, have the gift of endurance and we can manipulate things very well with our hands. What more do you want?
[/quote]
Your being so bias about how physically superior humans are its ridiculous. As to your comment about other mammals, your right we probably could kill all the animals we encounter aside from almost any animal that is of similar size (the three you mentioned as well as any ungulate- deer, bison, antelope etc…) so that leaves what? Bats, mice, squirrels, rabbits. Go outside and catch a few of those and let me know how it goes. Don’t even bring the smarter aspect into this discussion because I’m obviously not disputing that for christ sake. We arent even stronger than our closely related primates that are substantially smaller.
The one attribute we DO have is that we can run, and have pretty good endurance as a whole relative to other species, but its not something we were made for doing, especially on pavement. You mention all the ways humans are made for running, most of which I agree with. Are you also saying that there are not serious flaws in the human biomechanical system that makes running a very poor activity, especially when done for years and years? Also, humans these days live a hell of alot longer and are a hell of alot larger than the native types you talk about. Most of those native types are much shorter with very small frames. I’m willing to talk about both sides of the coin, according to you the human body is close to perfect.[/quote]
I’m not saying humans are superior physically but people really need to stop downplaying us. If If am saying humans are superior physically, then I mean it in terms of endurance running.
I still don’t see what these flaws are considering the number of people who run (marathons, etc) frequently well into their old age. I know several old men who run very very frequently and have, for decades.
We live a hell of a lot longer because of medicine and our environment. The san bushmen have a life expectancy of 45-50 years. What that has to do with running is beyond me.
If a 5’10 power lifter decides to bulk to 275 pounds, and then goes running and blows his knees out, that’s not an argument you can use against running. It’s very difficult, in the natural world, to be able to bulk to such a huge size. I would say that “naturally” we aren’t meant to bulk to such huge sizes.
There may be some flaws in human biomechanics, but i wouldn’t be quick to point them out.
Maybe you could?
As for not being able to jump high: that is besides the point.
“Hey, you might be able to bench 500 pounds, but i can clean and jerk 400, nanana”
Irrelevant.[/quote]
No its a little relevant. I’d say part of being a well rounded athlete is having a body that can run, jump, climb etc… When you do so much of one form of exercise with little to no variation besides how long you do it, things stop working properly. I agree with the lifting extremely heavy and bulking for sure, thats just bad on the other end of the spectrum.
Like I said in my initial post, one of the main reasons I’m against running is because it doesn’t work for me, I can feel in the difference in recruitment and mechanics when squatting and playing sports for instance. So I’m emphasizing everything negative about running, and I do think in general, its not good for the body. If someone has been doing it and has no issues, fine, but I’m not going to recommend a new client run.
On your side, you find it works well for you so you only look at the positives and are blind to a certain extent when it comes to the negatives that accompany long distance running.
I’m not addicted to running but I do find it can be addictive. I’ve been a runner a few times in my life and there is something about it that makes me want to continue moving forward. I recently started again because I’ve been neglecting cardio for too long and am sort of enjoying it. I’m still out of shape so I’m sure I will enjoy it more as I progress.
That being said I find lifting to be addictive and fucking and drinking and eating and football and boating and all sorts of stuff so maybe it’s just me and not really the running. I just like things and want to do them a lot.
[quote]bigquig wrote:
Totally. Done five ultras (50k, 2 50 milers, one 12 hr, and one 100 miler), and a few marathons. I haven’t done a good one in a while, and I’m really getting the itch to do it again. [/quote]
that is just IMPRESSIVE.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
I guess this is a thread only for people who love running, so this may get me kicked out but here I go. Running is the worst type of activity most people can do. Just like most things, I say this because I’m not any good at it. Well, thats not the only reason, but that definitely is a big one.
Just the basic premise doesn’t seem to work. Take an animal weighing between 100 and 250lbs made of soft tissue and take one stride on stone. Repeat several hundred thousand times. What would the logical result of such an activity be? Now being honest I have trained and I have seen some people who can run marathons, and pretty decent mileage per week while still having a body that works pretty damn well.
I’ve seen dozens more with serious soft tissue problems, recruitment issues, that have reached the point where you can say, their body really does not work properly anymore, and its close to a chronic condition. Many runners say there’s just nothing like it, and I guess I can understand that to a certain degree, being out there, on the road, just yourself and a pair of shoes.
But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone. The most natural movement that could be turned into effective exercise is hiking, which may come with its issues as well, but it seems to be alot better for alot of people including myself.
Lastly, I remember I had Mike Boyle for a class when I was getting my Ex Phys degree and this was his take on a marathon which I think sums it up pretty well. “Hundreds of years ago a man ran 26 miles during a war to save his friends and dropped stone-cold dead upon arrival. Now its a fitness event.”
You could also open and close your refrigerator 10,000 times and get rotator cuff surgery to be able to keep it up. GPP is the way to go.[/quote]
Well, you are definitely a dumbass and i will tell you why.
Our physiology points to endurance running.
We are one of the few animals in this world that stands on two legs/feet (bipedal).
Most animals that stand on two feet need some way to stay balanced.
Usually this is done via either a long tail to counter balance (see monkeys and kangaroos) or you must directly support yourself (see other great apes like gorillas and chimps who use their hands).
So basically the only way for us to remain upright is to have some sort of counter weight.
We have this: a huge ass. Kangaroos have long tails but we have a large ass. If you haven’t noticed, most animals have a small or non existent ass (see: gorilla or any other animal).
Also, the way our legs are built make them extremely efficient for long distance running.
The Achilles’ tendon points to this. As does the foot. The arch in the foot (among other things) bends and unbends depending on how you apply pressure.
All these components come together to work like a spring. They are basically shock absorbers.
(Fyi, we are meant to run barefoot, not with shitty high heeled shoes).
Our flatter faces and less protruding features (short forearms, no snout, etc compared to chimps or gorillas) also made it easier for us to balance.
This makes us extremely efficient. Add to the fact that the largest muscles on our body are the glutes and hamstrings, which are the main muscles in running, and you have a pretty solid case for us being geared towards running.
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!
We, unlike many other animals, have the ability to sweat. This allows us to do much work and remain cool. Actually our perspiration is unique to us. Our lack of hair would probably account for something. If it wasn’t for our sweat capabilities, we’d die from over heating (brain generates a lot of heat).
This means in equatorial climate, we’d be fine.
Our anatomy also makes us very efficient at counter rotation via arm movement, which is key in running for bipedals. Our trapezius muscles also allow our head to remain more stable, which makes us…again…more efficient. Other apes have extremely small traps.
Our large shoulders and muscled core allow us to stabilize our body very well (also as i mentioned before, the counter rotation helps).
Add our long legs, and yes, we are built to run. Not sprints, but endurance.
It has been recorded that humans can outrun horses.
That’s how the 100 mile western race came to existence. Western States Endurance Run - Wikipedia
As for your thing about some man running 26 miles to only drop dead, that was a greek messenger who was running from the battle of marathon (name of a greek city, and that’s where the name of the event comes from) to declare that they had won the battle. At this point, it would mean he had ran non stop from a battle in which he had fought in.
So yea, maybe if you fight for a few days with little sleep, food or otherwise and then run 26 miles non stop, you might die.
All that being said, most “experts” (researchers with phds, experts in the field of human physiology and history) agree that humans are built for endurance.
Same tribes still hunt via endurance running.
The san bushmen still do this.
You can read some stuff here: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/may/tramps-like-us
I hope you have been enlightened.
[/quote]
Haha, I was trying to be self-depricating in my response, but that wasn’t good enough huh… ahh…
There are things about the human body that do help it during long bouts of exercise sure, but there probably twice the amount of negatives. So we have all of these special attributes why can’t we outrun wolves, or dogs etc…? Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. We all know without our brains we would have never risen above other species.
But you overlooked one very important point I made sure to make VERY clear. Sure there are native people who track animals for days running a good portion of the time. Do they do it on pavement? Answer is no. Do they do it in shoes with arch support? Answer is no. Those two differences right there are MASSIVE. Comparing some twig legged dipshit out running on the boulevard on the side of the road and people running barefoot on earth is night and day.
So scientists have found where humans are definitely made to run on pavement? Is that what your saying? Because thats what I was saying. Don’t change shit around you dumbass.[/quote]
Lol, cute.
“But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone.”
I apologize, i misread then. I thought you meant that we weren’t built for endurance running.
There are millions of people (or hundreds of thousands, at least) who run recreationally.
All of them use shitty over pronating high heeled running shoes. Many of them run on pavement and many of them are fine.
Fyi, i’ve ran hundreds of kilometers/miles on pavement both barefoot and with shoes on.
My knees are fine. You know, when you run, you don’t have to pound your feet into the “stone” like a retard. You can run softly and that is actually how you are supposed to run.
Like i said, our legs work as springs, so why would this change if the ground is hard or soft?
We can outrun wolves, if it’s on our own turf. If you take into account that we’re not supposed to be wear clothes (naturally) and that we are most comfortable naked near the equator (and not in bumfuck, canada), then yes, we can outrun wolves. The wolves would overheat and die on “our turf”. On their turd, they’d have the advantage.
I just showed you that we can outrun horses.
We can outrun many animals, but it doesn’t mean we run faster than them. We chase and chase and chase and eventually the animal wears out (due to over heating, which we have a great solution for) and we catch it.
You can outrun a cheetah but you can’t run faster.
"Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. "
Please elaborate. What animals are you comparing too? You walk into any forest and you’d probably be able to kill all the animals you encounter except 1 or 2 (bear, wolf, mountain lion, etc).
Is that not good enough? With your bare hands you can kill most animals on this planet. We’re stronger and smarter than most animals, have the gift of endurance and we can manipulate things very well with our hands. What more do you want?
[/quote]
Your being so bias about how physically superior humans are its ridiculous. As to your comment about other mammals, your right we probably could kill all the animals we encounter aside from almost any animal that is of similar size (the three you mentioned as well as any ungulate- deer, bison, antelope etc…) so that leaves what? Bats, mice, squirrels, rabbits. Go outside and catch a few of those and let me know how it goes. Don’t even bring the smarter aspect into this discussion because I’m obviously not disputing that for christ sake. We arent even stronger than our closely related primates that are substantially smaller.
The one attribute we DO have is that we can run, and have pretty good endurance as a whole relative to other species, but its not something we were made for doing, especially on pavement. You mention all the ways humans are made for running, most of which I agree with. Are you also saying that there are not serious flaws in the human biomechanical system that makes running a very poor activity, especially when done for years and years? Also, humans these days live a hell of alot longer and are a hell of alot larger than the native types you talk about. Most of those native types are much shorter with very small frames. I’m willing to talk about both sides of the coin, according to you the human body is close to perfect.[/quote]
I’m not saying humans are superior physically but people really need to stop downplaying us. If If am saying humans are superior physically, then I mean it in terms of endurance running.
I still don’t see what these flaws are considering the number of people who run (marathons, etc) frequently well into their old age. I know several old men who run very very frequently and have, for decades.
We live a hell of a lot longer because of medicine and our environment. The san bushmen have a life expectancy of 45-50 years. What that has to do with running is beyond me.
If a 5’10 power lifter decides to bulk to 275 pounds, and then goes running and blows his knees out, that’s not an argument you can use against running. It’s very difficult, in the natural world, to be able to bulk to such a huge size. I would say that “naturally” we aren’t meant to bulk to such huge sizes.
There may be some flaws in human biomechanics, but i wouldn’t be quick to point them out.
Maybe you could?
As for not being able to jump high: that is besides the point.
“Hey, you might be able to bench 500 pounds, but i can clean and jerk 400, nanana”
Irrelevant.[/quote]
No its a little relevant. I’d say part of being a well rounded athlete is having a body that can run, jump, climb etc… When you do so much of one form of exercise with little to no variation besides how long you do it, things stop working properly. I agree with the lifting extremely heavy and bulking for sure, thats just bad on the other end of the spectrum.
Like I said in my initial post, one of the main reasons I’m against running is because it doesn’t work for me, I can feel in the difference in recruitment and mechanics when squatting and playing sports for instance. So I’m emphasizing everything negative about running, and I do think in general, its not good for the body. If someone has been doing it and has no issues, fine, but I’m not going to recommend a new client run.
On your side, you find it works well for you so you only look at the positives and are blind to a certain extent when it comes to the negatives that accompany long distance running.[/quote]
Ah, well, i wasn’t looking at it from an athletic point of view but rather a “natural-this is how we evolved” point of view.
I guess if your goals are mostly powerlifting oriented, running is useless. With that i agree.
In all cases, i don’t disagree with anything that has been written. All i meant to explain was that we evolved as endurance runners and running isn’t “bad” for you. If at the end of the day you wish to squat or whatever, then that is your prerogative.
[quote]postholedigger wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
(and I think I look better too) when I run.[/quote]
You always look good Deb I know…I’m an asskisser.
[/quote]
I should clarify: What I meant my skin has more colour and my complexion is nicer when I ran that morning.
Whether it’s ideal or not to run long distance, it’s like anything. It has it’s pros and cons and you weigh them as they benefit you individually.
As far as what we are MEANT to do, I think that is kind of silly since all we need to do to spread our genes is live long enough to breed and allow our offspring to survive. There is nothing to say we were built to do anything past 30 comfortably or without pain or injury.
All I really have to say is the right kind of exercise is the one that you actually do. I hear from a lot of out of shape folks all the time (not referring to anyone here by the way) how X exercise is bad because of Y and I think it’s a way of justifying their inactivity or their dislike of an activity. But hey, no one HAS to run, lift weights, do crossfit or whatever the hell offends you but you’re talking out your ass if you’re going to try and say it is bad for you. Just admit you don’t like it. (That might sound a bit crankier than I mean it to…)
[quote]Wilba wrote:
I’m not addicted to running but I do find it can be addictive. I’ve been a runner a few times in my life and there is something about it that makes me want to continue moving forward. I recently started again because I’ve been neglecting cardio for too long and am sort of enjoying it. I’m still out of shape so I’m sure I will enjoy it more as I progress.
That being said I find lifting to be addictive and fucking and drinking and eating and football and boating and all sorts of stuff so maybe it’s just me and not really the running. I just like things and want to do them a lot. [/quote]
Similar to how it feels GREAT to be pleasantly fatigued after working really hard with the weights, you know that sleepy, nice, fuzzy feeling, I get the same great feeling after a run. It really is a high.
[quote]debraD wrote:
All I really have to say is the right kind of exercise is the one that you actually do. I hear from a lot of out of shape folks all the time (not referring to anyone here by the way) how X exercise is bad because of Y and I think it’s a way of justifying their inactivity or their dislike of an activity. But hey, no one HAS to run, lift weights, do crossfit or whatever the hell offends you but you’re talking out your ass if you’re going to try and say it is bad for you. Just admit you don’t like it.
[/quote]
Exactly what I need to tell a bunch of out of shape complainers I know. “Running hurts my knees” --Mr. Never Logged Enough Miles in His/Her Lifetime to Equal a Marathon. “Deadlifts are bad for your back” --Mr. Never Did a Deadlift in His/Her Life. “I don’t want to look like a freak that takes steroids” --Ms. Never Lifted Heavy Before. “Calf raises would injure me” --Mr. Never Even Tried It Before. Ad nauseum.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
I guess this is a thread only for people who love running, so this may get me kicked out but here I go. Running is the worst type of activity most people can do. Just like most things, I say this because I’m not any good at it. Well, thats not the only reason, but that definitely is a big one.
Just the basic premise doesn’t seem to work. Take an animal weighing between 100 and 250lbs made of soft tissue and take one stride on stone. Repeat several hundred thousand times. What would the logical result of such an activity be? Now being honest I have trained and I have seen some people who can run marathons, and pretty decent mileage per week while still having a body that works pretty damn well.
I’ve seen dozens more with serious soft tissue problems, recruitment issues, that have reached the point where you can say, their body really does not work properly anymore, and its close to a chronic condition. Many runners say there’s just nothing like it, and I guess I can understand that to a certain degree, being out there, on the road, just yourself and a pair of shoes.
But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone. The most natural movement that could be turned into effective exercise is hiking, which may come with its issues as well, but it seems to be alot better for alot of people including myself.
Lastly, I remember I had Mike Boyle for a class when I was getting my Ex Phys degree and this was his take on a marathon which I think sums it up pretty well. “Hundreds of years ago a man ran 26 miles during a war to save his friends and dropped stone-cold dead upon arrival. Now its a fitness event.”
You could also open and close your refrigerator 10,000 times and get rotator cuff surgery to be able to keep it up. GPP is the way to go.[/quote]
Well, you are definitely a dumbass and i will tell you why.
Our physiology points to endurance running.
We are one of the few animals in this world that stands on two legs/feet (bipedal).
Most animals that stand on two feet need some way to stay balanced.
Usually this is done via either a long tail to counter balance (see monkeys and kangaroos) or you must directly support yourself (see other great apes like gorillas and chimps who use their hands).
So basically the only way for us to remain upright is to have some sort of counter weight.
We have this: a huge ass. Kangaroos have long tails but we have a large ass. If you haven’t noticed, most animals have a small or non existent ass (see: gorilla or any other animal).
Also, the way our legs are built make them extremely efficient for long distance running.
The Achilles’ tendon points to this. As does the foot. The arch in the foot (among other things) bends and unbends depending on how you apply pressure.
All these components come together to work like a spring. They are basically shock absorbers.
(Fyi, we are meant to run barefoot, not with shitty high heeled shoes).
Our flatter faces and less protruding features (short forearms, no snout, etc compared to chimps or gorillas) also made it easier for us to balance.
This makes us extremely efficient. Add to the fact that the largest muscles on our body are the glutes and hamstrings, which are the main muscles in running, and you have a pretty solid case for us being geared towards running.
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!
We, unlike many other animals, have the ability to sweat. This allows us to do much work and remain cool. Actually our perspiration is unique to us. Our lack of hair would probably account for something. If it wasn’t for our sweat capabilities, we’d die from over heating (brain generates a lot of heat).
This means in equatorial climate, we’d be fine.
Our anatomy also makes us very efficient at counter rotation via arm movement, which is key in running for bipedals. Our trapezius muscles also allow our head to remain more stable, which makes us…again…more efficient. Other apes have extremely small traps.
Our large shoulders and muscled core allow us to stabilize our body very well (also as i mentioned before, the counter rotation helps).
Add our long legs, and yes, we are built to run. Not sprints, but endurance.
It has been recorded that humans can outrun horses.
That’s how the 100 mile western race came to existence. Western States Endurance Run - Wikipedia
As for your thing about some man running 26 miles to only drop dead, that was a greek messenger who was running from the battle of marathon (name of a greek city, and that’s where the name of the event comes from) to declare that they had won the battle. At this point, it would mean he had ran non stop from a battle in which he had fought in.
So yea, maybe if you fight for a few days with little sleep, food or otherwise and then run 26 miles non stop, you might die.
All that being said, most “experts” (researchers with phds, experts in the field of human physiology and history) agree that humans are built for endurance.
Same tribes still hunt via endurance running.
The san bushmen still do this.
You can read some stuff here: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/may/tramps-like-us
I hope you have been enlightened.
[/quote]
Haha, I was trying to be self-depricating in my response, but that wasn’t good enough huh… ahh…
There are things about the human body that do help it during long bouts of exercise sure, but there probably twice the amount of negatives. So we have all of these special attributes why can’t we outrun wolves, or dogs etc…? Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. We all know without our brains we would have never risen above other species.
But you overlooked one very important point I made sure to make VERY clear. Sure there are native people who track animals for days running a good portion of the time. Do they do it on pavement? Answer is no. Do they do it in shoes with arch support? Answer is no. Those two differences right there are MASSIVE. Comparing some twig legged dipshit out running on the boulevard on the side of the road and people running barefoot on earth is night and day.
So scientists have found where humans are definitely made to run on pavement? Is that what your saying? Because thats what I was saying. Don’t change shit around you dumbass.[/quote]
Lol, cute.
“But in that same vein, I think you have a be a realist in saying, humans or any other animal did not evolve to run for long distances on stone.”
I apologize, i misread then. I thought you meant that we weren’t built for endurance running.
There are millions of people (or hundreds of thousands, at least) who run recreationally.
All of them use shitty over pronating high heeled running shoes. Many of them run on pavement and many of them are fine.
Fyi, i’ve ran hundreds of kilometers/miles on pavement both barefoot and with shoes on.
My knees are fine. You know, when you run, you don’t have to pound your feet into the “stone” like a retard. You can run softly and that is actually how you are supposed to run.
Like i said, our legs work as springs, so why would this change if the ground is hard or soft?
We can outrun wolves, if it’s on our own turf. If you take into account that we’re not supposed to be wear clothes (naturally) and that we are most comfortable naked near the equator (and not in bumfuck, canada), then yes, we can outrun wolves. The wolves would overheat and die on “our turf”. On their turd, they’d have the advantage.
I just showed you that we can outrun horses.
We can outrun many animals, but it doesn’t mean we run faster than them. We chase and chase and chase and eventually the animal wears out (due to over heating, which we have a great solution for) and we catch it.
You can outrun a cheetah but you can’t run faster.
"Whether it be from a power output/strength standpoint, or an endurance standpoint, humans are not very good at all when compared to other mammals. "
Please elaborate. What animals are you comparing too? You walk into any forest and you’d probably be able to kill all the animals you encounter except 1 or 2 (bear, wolf, mountain lion, etc).
Is that not good enough? With your bare hands you can kill most animals on this planet. We’re stronger and smarter than most animals, have the gift of endurance and we can manipulate things very well with our hands. What more do you want?
[/quote]
Your being so bias about how physically superior humans are its ridiculous. As to your comment about other mammals, your right we probably could kill all the animals we encounter aside from almost any animal that is of similar size (the three you mentioned as well as any ungulate- deer, bison, antelope etc…) so that leaves what? Bats, mice, squirrels, rabbits. Go outside and catch a few of those and let me know how it goes. Don’t even bring the smarter aspect into this discussion because I’m obviously not disputing that for christ sake. We arent even stronger than our closely related primates that are substantially smaller.
The one attribute we DO have is that we can run, and have pretty good endurance as a whole relative to other species, but its not something we were made for doing, especially on pavement. You mention all the ways humans are made for running, most of which I agree with. Are you also saying that there are not serious flaws in the human biomechanical system that makes running a very poor activity, especially when done for years and years? Also, humans these days live a hell of alot longer and are a hell of alot larger than the native types you talk about. Most of those native types are much shorter with very small frames. I’m willing to talk about both sides of the coin, according to you the human body is close to perfect.[/quote]
I’m not saying humans are superior physically but people really need to stop downplaying us. If If am saying humans are superior physically, then I mean it in terms of endurance running.
I still don’t see what these flaws are considering the number of people who run (marathons, etc) frequently well into their old age. I know several old men who run very very frequently and have, for decades.
We live a hell of a lot longer because of medicine and our environment. The san bushmen have a life expectancy of 45-50 years. What that has to do with running is beyond me.
If a 5’10 power lifter decides to bulk to 275 pounds, and then goes running and blows his knees out, that’s not an argument you can use against running. It’s very difficult, in the natural world, to be able to bulk to such a huge size. I would say that “naturally” we aren’t meant to bulk to such huge sizes.
There may be some flaws in human biomechanics, but i wouldn’t be quick to point them out.
Maybe you could?
As for not being able to jump high: that is besides the point.
“Hey, you might be able to bench 500 pounds, but i can clean and jerk 400, nanana”
Irrelevant.[/quote]
No its a little relevant. I’d say part of being a well rounded athlete is having a body that can run, jump, climb etc… When you do so much of one form of exercise with little to no variation besides how long you do it, things stop working properly. I agree with the lifting extremely heavy and bulking for sure, thats just bad on the other end of the spectrum.
Like I said in my initial post, one of the main reasons I’m against running is because it doesn’t work for me, I can feel in the difference in recruitment and mechanics when squatting and playing sports for instance. So I’m emphasizing everything negative about running, and I do think in general, its not good for the body. If someone has been doing it and has no issues, fine, but I’m not going to recommend a new client run.
On your side, you find it works well for you so you only look at the positives and are blind to a certain extent when it comes to the negatives that accompany long distance running.[/quote]
Ah, well, i wasn’t looking at it from an athletic point of view but rather a “natural-this is how we evolved” point of view.
I guess if your goals are mostly powerlifting oriented, running is useless. With that i agree.
In all cases, i don’t disagree with anything that has been written. All i meant to explain was that we evolved as endurance runners and running isn’t “bad” for you. If at the end of the day you wish to squat or whatever, then that is your prerogative. [/quote]
I agree to a certain point with most of what you’ve written as well, but I don’t agree ALL humans have evolved as distance runners. There’s alot of smaller branches off of the homosapien evolutionary tree, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. Alot of these strengths and weaknesses are apparent when people from certain geographical areas keep popping up in the same Olympic events. Good discussion.
I think it is addictive.If you run and you are out of shape it hurts, if you run fast and you are in shape it hurts… I wouldn’t say I love running over weight training but there is nothing like it. I run long and do short distances, speed work you name it. There is nothing like it. I can bike for hours but run for an hour and it is an a** beating.
I feel bad if I don’t. I also never really run on lifting days unless preparing for a race and I will back off legs and do more speed and plyo related stuff. I think weight training has helped balance over use and inury prevention. I would gather that most people on this site that do run are probably bigger than the average runner and a lot of people are always shocked that someone a bit bigger can be fast and have muscle.
To me I think it goes hand in hand. If I am training the heart and lungs to be more effecient then shouldn’t that in turn help moving the vital nutrients through my body and aide recovery and growth after weight training? I always feel better when it’s over.
Addicted to running is a little harsh but i think its soothing !
And all the talk about you should not run other things than sprints if your a basketball players cause thats all you do on the court i think thats wrong too !!
theres something about distance running (im talking 5-10 km) that seem to make you indestrutible ! i always feel my ankels always feel super good when im in good runnning conditioning… and also it feels like recovery gets faster when your in good long distance running condition !?
[quote]musclegym wrote:
I think it is addictive.If you run and you are out of shape it hurts, if you run fast and you are in shape it hurts… I wouldn’t say I love running over weight training but there is nothing like it. I run long and do short distances, speed work you name it. There is nothing like it. I can bike for hours but run for an hour and it is an a** beating.
I feel bad if I don’t. I also never really run on lifting days unless preparing for a race and I will back off legs and do more speed and plyo related stuff. I think weight training has helped balance over use and inury prevention. I would gather that most people on this site that do run are probably bigger than the average runner and a lot of people are always shocked that someone a bit bigger can be fast and have muscle.
To me I think it goes hand in hand. If I am training the heart and lungs to be more effecient then shouldn’t that in turn help moving the vital nutrients through my body and aide recovery and growth after weight training? I always feel better when it’s over.[/quote]
^^^ Couldn’t agree more. It’s not always fun and it doesn’t always feel good, but there is nothing like it.
[quote]blunt wrote:
Addicted to running is a little harsh but i think its soothing !
And all the talk about you should not run other things than sprints if your a basketball players cause thats all you do on the court i think thats wrong too !!
theres something about distance running (im talking 5-10 km) that seem to make you indestrutible ! i always feel my ankels always feel super good when im in good runnning conditioning… and also it feels like recovery gets faster when your in good long distance running condition !?[/quote]
It depends on the type of player you are. There are alot of players who’s game is not based around being fast and powerful, but rather smart and efficient. Those players already lack the power and speed necessary to play that style of ball and usually are better endurance athletes, that is, they are slow.
I actually have a client that is built like MUSCLEGYM, he runs marathons and is a good endurance athlete, but he is more toward the built for speed side of the endurance spectrum than the built for distance, which is where most well built people who can run fall. However, it should be noted that most of these types are really not very good power athletes, with rare exception. Now many may actually be pretty strong, but almost never explosive.
I understand what your saying about recovery and this and that when being in long distance running shape, but the fact of the matter is this. Your body adapts to the task it is given. And so, since long distance running rewards feeble, repetitive movement, strong, powerful movements take a serious hit.
But again, people do what they are good at, or at least they care more about the running than about all the negatives associated with it, or they don’t care about the negatives.
Nope.
I, like a couple of you, started as a runner. I went from 210 lbs to 135 lbs, building up to about 50 miles per week. This caused countless trips to foot / ankle specialists, and probably cost me about 3 thousand dollars over a 2 year span. I still enjoy running, but only a couple miles at a time, maybe 6-8 miles per week. I now like short, fast runs vs long slow runs.
Advice to fat people. You must me in shape to run, you must not run to get in shape. Save your body the agony!
what if i were to say to you ‘cross trainer’…? is that too controversial? or a hidden win/win/win situation?
[quote]glasgow_rangers wrote:
what if i were to say to you ‘cross trainer’…? is that too controversial? or a hidden win/win/win situation?[/quote]
That’s like saying crossfit! =0