Any hope for gains? Diagnose my lack of progress after years

Training Beginners
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35 year old male. Baffled by my lack of progress and hoping you guys can lend some advice or hope…

Started training 3 years ago and 2 years ago very seriously. Experienced strength gains at first but virtually no real noobie gains in size.
Gained a lot of fat in year one trying to essentially force-feed hypertrophy and ended up accidentally making myself obese (25% body fat) without realizing it until I got a DEXA scan. My fat was really evenly distributed so it was hard to tell.

Dropped the weight fairly quickly while keeping protein intake high. Then went back to trying to bulk but more cautiously and responsibly. Seemed like I was making progress for a few months and then started to not just plateau but lose strength. Got sick for maybe a couple weeks (sinus infection). Tried working out but took a week off to recover when it felt like the gym was making things worse. Felt way weaker when I got back in the next week (I’ve tracked everything and definitely backslid in terms of what I was able to do).

Got an expensive personal trainer and my health insurance covers a dietician. I’ve been working with them for a few months now and still just seem to be seeing maybe incremental progress for a few weeks or a month, then a bit of a backslide. I look healthier than when I first started training but not really visibly muscular… I am truly pouring a large amount of money, time, dedication and effort into this and I don’t really understand what I’m doing wrong or if I’m just genetically fucked.

Some more info that may be relevant:
I’ve tried various hypertrophic training strategies. Trained between 3-6 days per week. 3 seemed like not enough. 6 I would feel fatigued all the time.

I’m currently training 4 days per week and eating between 2300 and 2600 calories per day. Macros for today were 49g fat, 287g carbs, 188g protein and that’s pretty much in line with how I typically eat. I tried to limit saturated fats and go for simpler carbs only before and after workouts. Most of that is from whole foods – lots of fruits, veggies, grains, and lean meats-- but I do supplement with whey isolate protein powder and creatine daily (after workouts on training days).

I’m 5’9", 148 lbs, about 17% body fat now and 39% muscle
My labs look healthy with borderline high LDL levels being the only slightly off thing.

My testosterone and free test are in the normal range, on the higher side (931). IGF-1 looks normal.

My Apple Watch says my VO2 Max is a little below average but I don’t really do anything other than steady state cardio as far as aerobic exercise is concerned.

I uploaded my DNA sequence to some website that says, for the most part, I have average to better-than-average genetics for endurance and muscle-building with a couple exceptions. One of the exceptions is that my VEGFA genotype is GC which makes me a low-responder to traditional strength/resistance training. I’m not sure how much weight to put into that…
Is there anything you can do for that or do I just need to go full Bryan Johnson and try to hold out until gene editing is FDA or at least accessible on a remote island or some shit?

I feel like I’ve given you all, at once, too much and not enough information. What else is helpful to know so you can (hopefully) shed a bit of light on what I should do next?
If I were to eventually break the proverbial emergency glass and cycle would that even do anything given that I’ve barely made any progress naturally even though my test levels are on the higher side naturally?

I’m getting frustrated and kind of at a loss for what to do next. My PCP doesn’t seem to care and men’s clinic-type doctors are all-too-eager to let me try TRT even though my levels are where they are so I’m a little cynical about that.

I dunno, fellas, what do you think?

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As a fellow 5’9 trainee, at 39 years of age, let me ask…

You started training 3 years ago. What was your life like for the 32 years leading up to that? Do you have any manner of athletic background? What was your nutrition like?

You listed days of training, but how were you training when you lifted? Have you run any particular programs?

Do you engage in any fitness/general activity outside of lifting?

What foods are you eating to get your macro breakdown?

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How much did you weigh?

What was your final weight?

What does this mean? Backslide to what?

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Thanks, T3hPwnisher. Great questions.

I wouldn’t say I was super athletic, no. I walked and hiked a lot, and engaged in outdoorsy stuff like rock climbing, kayaking, etc., but not super intensely. I’d say I was a moderately healthy eater before, too. And I started running for a little before starting to lift and eschewing more intense cardio for mostly just lifting and steady-state (like walking or hiking).

At first my workouts were more about just building habits with a friend so they were lighter dumbells, machines, and yoga.
When I started getting more serious about 2 years ago, I had all my programming done by trainers through a fitness app called Future. I think that started as push, pull, legs and tended to be lighter weights and higher reps. from there I’ve tried a few different things after not seeing much in terms of results for a few months. And when my bodyfat got high I incorporated a bit of HIIT (I ended up losing a bit of muscle during that period even though I kept my protein intake high, but not that surprising since I went into a caloric deficient). At this point I stopped using that app and switched to a mix of talking to gym-goers whose results I admired and having them help me build a program while building more of my own knowledge. Checking form, etc.

Then, I stayed the course for several months working out 4 days a week doing a split like – lower, upper body, lower+arms, upper.

Then I tried 5 and 6 day variations of push, pull, lower. But I started losing motivation so I hired an in-person trainer. He had me doing 5 days a week but focused more on building strength and a lot more bodyweight stuff than anyone else had done with me before recently switching to a push day, squat day, pull day, hinge day sort of cadence which is what I’m doing now.
I’m not running any sort of branded program nor have I. Is that what you’re asking?

I don’t engage much in fitness outside of lifting other than walking and outdoorsy stuff, which tends to never be especially intense.

Foods? For simpler carbs I tend to reach for fruit – blueberries, dates, bananas, peaches, mangoes, pineapples, etc-- as well as white rice and pasta. Vegetables, I eat a lot of broccoli and a moderate amount of spinach and sweet potatoes, among others. Grains, a good amount of brown rice, quinoa, and whole grain bread (usual Ezekiel or Dave’s Killer). Proteins are lean ground beef, eggs, greek yogurt, chicken breast, salmon, tuna steak, beans, tofu. Definitely chicken breast and eggs mostly. And, of course, whey isolate protein powder. Fats, mostly just whatever I get from everything else plus avocados and olive oil. Sometimes cashews and other nuts/legumes.

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To make sure I am reading this correctly, you played no sports whatsoever growing up? No sports in high school/collegiate level? No pee wee baseball, bumblebee soccer, pop warner football, etc?

If that’s the case, you are beginning this journey at a significant physical deficit and have a LOT of lost ground to recover.

Alongside that, the training you describe is not very effective for physical transformation.

Are you able to perform the barbell squat, bench press, deadlift and press overhead?

I think the food choices being made are sound enough. I’m not the biggest fan of the macros, but that’s my personal preference.

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When I accidentally got up to 25% BF, I weighed 164 lbs at my heaviest.

My final weight as in how much I weigh now? 148 lbs. If you meant my final weight when I was trying to drop my body fat percentage, I got back down to like 137, I think, before I started eating in a surplus again.

“Backslid” meaning I started to experience failure sooner on weights I used to be able to lift more reps of. Like, my strength seemed to be waning.

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No sports in high school, no. I mean, I was an Eagle Scout, and did a lot of hiking, camping, mountain climbing, skiing, etc. That sort of stuff.

I did play pee-wee T-ball and did tae-kwo-do when I was very young. And in grade school and middle school I played basketball.

Yes, I perform barbell squat, bench press and deadlift. I have not tried overhead press with a barbell, only dumbbell and/or machine press.

Can you tell me a little more about what sort of training would be effective (or link resources you might recommend)? Also I’d invite more specifics about what you think of the macros.

Thanks!

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For muscular gain, I am a big fan of Dan John’s “Mass Made Simple”, Randall Strossen’s “Super Squats” and K. Black’s “Tactical Barbell Mass Protocol”. All 3 of these books will spell out exactly what you need to do in order to get bigger, to include how to train and what to eat. Tactical Barbell will boil down the food to the macro and calories, while Super Squats and Mass Made Simple take a more general approach. These programs are all built around hard sets of heavy barbell work, with the squat being the primary focus as a driver of full body size.

I, personally, prefer to keep carbs on the lower side and fats higher. Carbs are an energy source, and I find most trainees simply do not train hard enough to need a large percentage of their calories to come from carbs.

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Did you put on the 11 lbs. on your own or is this after getting the trainer?

How long have you been at 148 lbs.?

It could be you are just not eating enough or are doing too much during your sessions.

You are making progress then you stall and regress.

What do your sessions look like how many sets, reps etc.?

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Got it. I’ll check this out.
My fats were higher and carbs were lower but my trainer, dietician, and I adjusted to try this after my LDL tested a bit high during my last physical. Also my genetic testing says I process carbs a lot better than fat (again, I’m not sure how sound the science is with that, but I thought I’d try it).

I should say, the one thing I have pretty consistently seen progress with is my squat getting heavier and thighs growing, but veerrrryyyy slowly.

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I think like 60% of that 11 lb timeframe was on my own (with input from helpful guys informally at the gym) and 30% was working with this trainer for the last few months.

Currently my sessions are between 5 and 8 lifts usually 4 sets of 8-12 reps per movement not including warm-up. 30-45sec rest between sets. some supersets (e.g., bench press and planche push-ups as a superset or barbell squats with squat jumps; lunges with step-ups, etc.) – am I explaining this well?

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As @T3hPwnisher pointed out: you got some growing up to do…in the iron game that is.

You’re where I was…when I was 12.

Personally, I’d say settle into a routine that has you pushing money movements mostly but ones that fit you.

I think of: the “Best Damn…” series here on Tnation, Fortitude training, Jordan Peters, but stay away from the 6 day stuff for now.

Get in 3-4 days/week, work those money movements with focus on getting stronger in the 6-15 rep range (movement specific).

*Make sure you find YOUR money movements. If someone says “You gotcha bench for big pecs” but bench does fuck all for you? Find a movement that just feels good and get strong at it.

And you’re obsessing a bit on the nutrition but good on you for the effort. I’ve been a Dietitian almost 21 years. I didn’t see that often.

Get your protein in, keep the “healthy” carbs and whatever fats and settle in for a good 1-2 years more of grinding that iron.

And: STOP. PROGRAM. HOPPING. If you are prone.

Best of luck.

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I couldn’t gain muscle or strength past a certain threshold until I started varying the set and rep ranges. From what you’ve written, it sounds like all of your work sets are in the 8-12 rep range. Some movements and muscle groups benefit from lower reps, others from higher.

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When you say you hit a backslide was that for a session or 2? Or continuously? Because we all have sessions where we’re just not quite at it and that could be for various reasons!
Also what’s your intensity like? Reason I ask is because you seem extremely analytical. When I was doing strongman I became very conscious about my training and reps in the back etc and it massively hit my progress. I perform much better when I get in the gym and just get after it

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Do you have a before photo and after photo?

What were you benching, squatting and deadlifting 2 years ago?

Progress can be made, but it’s slower than people think. Your progress might be right inline with an acceptable amount of progress on average, though it might not be as much as you were hoping for.

Social media accounts connected to fitness and bodybuilding will make you think everyone is walking around ripped. It’s not the case. If they have a lot of followers they are also typically the genetic outliers as well. Head over to the 2025 transformation link on here for a good average user’s winter physique that posts here. It will probably surprise you, as well as make you feel a little more “normal”.

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Yes, I’m data-driven. I like to track everything to understand if I’m hitting dietary goals and how/if I’m progressing with lifts, etc. My intensity is probably RPE 7 or 8 for most sets and to failure on the last set (or if I fail early in a set, I might drop weight to finish out).

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You could perhaps try relaxing a little with recording data? Try and go off feel a little more. Assuming you have a job and a life outside of the gym there’s just too many variables to be able to accurately predict what you should lift each session.

I trained chest today and just warming up I felt weak and lethargic. Rather than trying to lift what I did last week I chose lighter dumbells and got a few more reps and tailored the rest of my session after that. I haven’t suddenly got weaker, and I know next week I could potentially go in the gym feeling great and get a pb

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Sure. And I’m not saying I’ve experienced absolutely no progress in two years, I just feel like the progress stalled and has been on the underwhelming side. But maybe I just need more realistic expectations and patience? I just feel antsy about starting things later in life and wanting to build a stronger foundation before turning 40 in 5 years.

Photos linked here with noted dates. Except the last one, I just realized, I forgot to add date – that one is Jan 2025. Although it’s just a mirror selfie so comparison won’t be as easy.

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You look like you have made good progress to me.

I would bring cals up to maintenance, keeping protein high. Switch some of those carbs for more fats, to help with satiation, and concentrate on training hard for awhile on one of the programs the were mentioned earlier by @T3hPwnisher

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I’d agree, you look like you’ve lost some fat (smaller love handles) and gained some muscle (shoulders and pecs).

Like Pwn I’m a big fan of the squat for driving progress, particularly early in the lifting career, and honestly your legs stand out as an area that could use some more work.

I’d really focus on programming that emphasises the squat, and really pushes intensity. You want to be really sure that every session you have in the gym has moved the needle. I’d definitely be focusing on the big barbell lifts and staying away from too many machines at this point, they’ve got their place but I really feel like you’re at the foundation building place and the big 4 (squat, bench, deads and OHP) done as free weight movements are key to getting that foundation right.

I also feel like if you push the intensity hard in the gym, that you can get away with “force-feeding” a little more, don’t get me wrong it’s not about going from 2700 to 4500 cals overnight but pushing them up slowly, because really hard work burns cals, builds muscle and makes you metabolically able to eat more.

Pwn made some really solid suggestions for lifting programs, once you’ve done a few of them, got some bigger numbers and an appreciation of how to push stupidly hard, I’d plug Brian Alsruhe for some seriously intense programming and progress.

What’s your end goal by the way, have you got a goal physique, strength goals, or something else?

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