Anti-Self Help Crusade

Off Topic
170

I have to respectfully disagree. First of all, the word “dream” means “use your imagination”. The United States of America is founded on “dreams”. Capitalism and entrepreneurship are founded on dreams.

Someone saw a need and filled it. It takes imagination to see what isn’t there - it takes creativity. Not to contradict your Grand dad, but it takes THOUGHT, careful planning, and faith in yourself and your ideas.

When I was an electrician, I had made it to being a foreman, having topped out on pay, had a service truck, worked for a good company, navigated the office politics well enough to make sure I got the good jobs to run, etc… I was at the “top” of the field riding the gravy train. Life was not bad. But, I had no more room for professional growth. I was restless and dissatisfied. (ok, I knew I could fuck hotter chicks if I had a white collar job - working the blue collar angle can only get you so far when you have to wake up and go to work at 5AM)

So I asked my Uncle, who was a Loan Officer at a mortgage company, “Hey Lawrence, you don’t need a college degree to do what you do, right? Do you think you could maybe show me the ropes?” His reply was, “Well frankly, Bradley, I don’t think you have what it takes.” If I had believed him, I’d still be an electrician. I KNEW I could do better. I BELIEVED in myself. I took a big risk. I dared to DREAM. Everyone in my family was telling me how stupid I was, how I should be lucky to be where I am, don’t rock the boat, etc… ad infinitum.

My Gut reaction was, “Fuck you, watch this”. Six months later I was a Loan Officer working for a Sub Prime broker shop in Northern VA. My gross volume was comparable to my Uncle’s. For those of you thinking BULLSHIT, back then it was totally easy to be a Loan Officer. There really was no thought involved, all it was was being able to network effectively and get clients - if they had a credit score above 540, they could go Stated Income/Stated Assets. If they didn’t, there were No Doc programs for that too, they just had a higher interest rate. I refinanced probably over a hundred electricians in my first year. Then I started fucking a few Realtors and getting referrals for their clients. I’m serious, it was that easy. I added a zero to my income that year.

I was able to do this by correctly reading the market and getting in on an industry as it was expanding. I am using the exact same strategy with my renewable energy company this year. It takes thought, imagination, and willingness to take a risk. I was an electrician with zero loan experience. I went to my day job, got home and took a shower and drove an hour in traffic to the mortgage office and stayed there until nine or ten learning the loan business. I did that for six months. I did what was necessary to succeed. I didn’t make money right away. The first loan I originated, I accidentally gave the guy an ARM instead of a 30 year fixed and he walked at the closing table… Stupid mistake! I’ve made thousands of mistakes… I very rarely repeat them, though. My point is, that JUST ABOUT anyone who really WANTS to actually do the work to change careers and make significant improvements in their lives… I got into mortgage first, got some capital, but I would say that right now, less than 30% of my income comes from originating loans. I expanded into other things and leveraged my connections into other opportunities. I couldn’t have done that from being an electrician…

Luck is where opportunity meets preparation. That takes imagination, and thought. You have to look at the economy like a chess game and see where it is going and make your moves. Not all of my moves pan out. But SOME of them do. I’d say about 50% of the phone calls and networking I do never goes ANYWHERE. It ends up being a complete waste of my time. But then there’s that chance call that ends up connecting me to someone, who’s uncle is a developer for XYZ company and they are looking for a 10 million dollar construction loan.

Someone up there said that the wealth that I accumulate is DEPRIVING someone else of wealth… Now I could go and argue about how different sectors grow with the economy and actually disprove the his statement, but I won’t. Instead I will address it this way: FUCK THEM, IT’S A JUNGLE OUT THERE AND IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE STUFF, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE SANDBOX. I don’t really care if my business edges in on someone Else’s “territory”. Now I won’t break the standards of professional courtesy and deliberately steal clients or commit fraud to gain an unfair advantage, but business is war. What was it that PMPM said? Winners go home and fuck the prom queen! There is plenty of opportunity for everyone who is intelligent, disciplined and who can read the market and predict the demand. It isn’t rocket science. There are SOOO many starving loan officers right now (those that are still in the industry). What did they do with all that money they made in '04 to '07? They failed to leverage what they had and now they are paying the price. I DO NOT feel sorry for them. /rant

171

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I have to respectfully disagree. First of all, the word “dream” means “use your imagination”. The United States of America is founded on “dreams”. Capitalism and entrepreneurship are founded on dreams.

Someone saw a need and filled it. It takes imagination to see what isn’t there - it takes creativity. Not to contradict your Grand dad, but it takes THOUGHT, careful planning, and faith in yourself and your ideas.

When I was an electrician, I had made it to being a foreman, having topped out on pay, had a service truck, worked for a good company, navigated the office politics well enough to make sure I got the good jobs to run, etc… I was at the “top” of the field riding the gravy train. Life was not bad. But, I had no more room for professional growth. I was restless and dissatisfied. (ok, I knew I could fuck hotter chicks if I had a white collar job - working the blue collar angle can only get you so far when you have to wake up and go to work at 5AM)

So I asked my Uncle, who was a Loan Officer at a mortgage company, “Hey Lawrence, you don’t need a college degree to do what you do, right? Do you think you could maybe show me the ropes?” His reply was, “Well frankly, Bradley, I don’t think you have what it takes.” If I had believed him, I’d still be an electrician. I KNEW I could do better. I BELIEVED in myself. I took a big risk. I dared to DREAM. Everyone in my family was telling me how stupid I was, how I should be lucky to be where I am, don’t rock the boat, etc… ad infinitum.

My Gut reaction was, “Fuck you, watch this”. Six months later I was a Loan Officer working for a Sub Prime broker shop in Northern VA. My gross volume was comparable to my Uncle’s. For those of you thinking BULLSHIT, back then it was totally easy to be a Loan Officer. There really was no thought involved, all it was was being able to network effectively and get clients - if they had a credit score above 540, they could go Stated Income/Stated Assets. If they didn’t, there were No Doc programs for that too, they just had a higher interest rate. I refinanced probably over a hundred electricians in my first year. Then I started fucking a few Realtors and getting referrals for their clients. I’m serious, it was that easy. I added a zero to my income that year.

I was able to do this by correctly reading the market and getting in on an industry as it was expanding. I am using the exact same strategy with my renewable energy company this year. It takes thought, imagination, and willingness to take a risk. I was an electrician with zero loan experience. I went to my day job, got home and took a shower and drove an hour in traffic to the mortgage office and stayed there until nine or ten learning the loan business. I did that for six months. I did what was necessary to succeed. I didn’t make money right away. The first loan I originated, I accidentally gave the guy an ARM instead of a 30 year fixed and he walked at the closing table… Stupid mistake! I’ve made thousands of mistakes… I very rarely repeat them, though. My point is, that JUST ABOUT anyone who really WANTS to actually do the work to change careers and make significant improvements in their lives… I got into mortgage first, got some capital, but I would say that right now, less than 30% of my income comes from originating loans. I expanded into other things and leveraged my connections into other opportunities. I couldn’t have done that from being an electrician…

Luck is where opportunity meets preparation. That takes imagination, and thought. You have to look at the economy like a chess game and see where it is going and make your moves. Not all of my moves pan out. But SOME of them do. I’d say about 50% of the phone calls and networking I do never goes ANYWHERE. It ends up being a complete waste of my time. But then there’s that chance call that ends up connecting me to someone, who’s uncle is a developer for XYZ company and they are looking for a 10 million dollar construction loan.

Someone up there said that the wealth that I accumulate is DEPRIVING someone else of wealth… Now I could go and argue about how different sectors grow with the economy and actually disprove the his statement, but I won’t. Instead I will address it this way: FUCK THEM, IT’S A JUNGLE OUT THERE AND IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE STUFF, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE SANDBOX. I don’t really care if my business edges in on someone Else’s “territory”. Now I won’t break the standards of professional courtesy and deliberately steal clients or commit fraud to gain an unfair advantage, but business is war. What was it that PMPM said? Winners go home and fuck the prom queen! There is plenty of opportunity for everyone who is intelligent, disciplined and who can read the market and predict the demand. It isn’t rocket science. There are SOOO many starving loan officers right now (those that are still in the industry). What did they do with all that money they made in '04 to '07? They failed to leverage what they had and now they are paying the price. I DO NOT feel sorry for them. /rant[/quote]

I enjoy reading your thoughtful, intriguing, and MOTIVATING posts. I’m serious - reading your posts makes me wanna hit the gym or go to work like RIGHT NOW.

However, we have different definitions of luck. I still don’t go with dreaming though. THOUGHT - I’ll go with. Preparation I’ll go with. Studying, perfecting, learning, etc - I’m for all of that.

I have ideas of what I want to do and most likely WILL try to do and perhaps succeed in some things I do. I don’t consider that dreaming. I use the words ASPIRE and ASPIRATION.

172

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[/quote]

I enjoy reading your thoughtful, intriguing, and MOTIVATING posts. I’m serious - reading your posts makes me wanna hit the gym or go to work like RIGHT NOW.

However, we have different definitions of luck. I still don’t go with dreaming though. THOUGHT - I’ll go with. Preparation I’ll go with. Studying, perfecting, learning, etc - I’m for all of that.

I have ideas of what I want to do and most likely WILL try to do and perhaps succeed in some things I do. I don’t consider that dreaming. I use the words ASPIRE and ASPIRATION. [/quote]

I think that only thing you and I really disagree on is our choice of/interpretation of the words we use. LOL Good “luck”, and may all of your “aspirations” come true ;p Seriously, I want nothing but good things for you, Brick.

173

Thanks.

Is your name Bradley too?

174

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Thanks.

Is your name Bradley too? [/quote]

Sure is, it’s a fine name, isn’t it? LOL

175

i love self help books. all they do is teach people to have confidence and a good attitude. nothing wrong with that.

177

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

I want to meet the guy who really is where he wants to be: not gonna happen[/quote]

Well, thats because people who achieve their goal of being “where they want to be”, tend to set new goals once they are there.

Me for example:

  • Enlisted in the military after high school, fought in two wars and multiple campaigns.
  • Finished my enlistment, got out, joined the Air National Guard in my state.
  • Got right into college, being very successful in my degree (3.8+ GPA in Mechanical Engineering)
  • Have absolutely no debt (and own two good cars), and I get paid to go to school due to my VA benefits, and the Air National Guard picks up most of my tuition.
  • I have a great marriage (been married almost 5 years now) and a great wife
  • I have been offered great co-op oppurtunities with major companies with the aviation industry(which is what I am pursuing), and I get paid to work as an engineer with these companies (actually, I have only co-oped with General Electric, turned down other offers because I like working for GE so much)when I am not in school (like summer time).
  • I will graduate with honors next year, and move on with my life.

Now, am I where I want to be? Of course not, I want to be done with school and working full time, but as far as being where I invisioned I would be (now) 4 years ago, Im spot on.[/quote]

you are so full of shit I can’t believe it. Is this supposed to be good or what? because I don’t know and I don’t care. Each day, each moment is new and the past, your ‘‘achievements’’ that you seem to be self-righteous about will never give you any real security and will not make everything golden for you.

I wrote a bunch of other stuff but it wouldn’t make sense for someone so conditionned

Also I dont know if you are conscious that not everywhere in the world being in the military is so well seen as in the USA. For me it makes you a tool in every sense of the word.

God I hope everyone is not a douche like you in those higher education etablishments[/quote]

If you think the men and women of this country who DEFEND YOU are tools then GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY BITCH

179

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
I sometimes wonder if people like the guy above had some abuse when they were younger, making them this paranoid. It’s actually a good theory. maybe a topic for a new thread if people were honest. You’d be surprised. [/quote]

A Freudian psychologist emerges amongst us, who seems to know and theorize about everyone’s inner feelings, conflicts, turmoil, and childhoods - a truly gifted T-mag forumite.

Keep up with the assumptions, genius.

180

[quote]ladieslove wrote:
i love self help books. all they do is teach people to have confidence and a good attitude. nothing wrong with that. [/quote]

Apparently you didn’t read my posts in full and haven’t read most popular self help books carefully or in full either.

They don’t just teach people anyway. They say downright deceptive and false and very, VERY unrealistic things too, as I’ve pointed out in numerous examples in this thread, many of which have nothing to do with positive thinking and confidence.

181

wow hold on a second. being in the military does NOT make you a tool. people act like tools in every profession. that’s not even what this thread is about. post that shit somewhere else there angry pants.

182

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]ladieslove wrote:
i love self help books. all they do is teach people to have confidence and a good attitude. nothing wrong with that. [/quote]

Apparently you didn’t read my posts in full and haven’t read most popular self help books carefully or in full either.

They don’t just teach people anyway. They say downright deceptive and false and very, VERY unrealistic things too, as I’ve pointed out in numerous examples in this thread, many of which have nothing to do with positive thinking and confidence. [/quote]

apparently? apparently. i hate when people use that word on me. especially self righteous pricks on the internet. no, its not apparent. i like to read. i read a lot of books. like i said, i love self help books. APPARENTLY, i dont give a shit about your opinion of them. that’s mine. i like them.

183

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Who else here wants to tell the whole assortment of charlatans, knaves, rubes, liars, manipulators, and hucksters of the self-help movement to take a flying leap and to take their Law of Attraction and shove it up their asses?

This thread will be dedicated to ripping this disastrous, destructive “movement” apart.

In particular, I’d like to criticize the written work of Brian Tracy because when I was very young and naive, actually read a few of this man’s books and actually fell for much of the crap in them. [/quote]

The surest way to counter the self-help folks is to go get totally shit-faced drunk, bang your wife’s best friend and then donate your worldly goods to Oral Roberts. Works every f-ing time. Honest.

184

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

Someone up there said that the wealth that I accumulate is DEPRIVING someone else of wealth… Now I could go and argue about how different sectors grow with the economy and actually disprove the his statement, but I won’t. Instead I will address it this way: FUCK THEM, IT’S A JUNGLE OUT THERE AND IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE STUFF, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE SANDBOX. I don’t really care if my business edges in on someone Else’s “territory”. Now I won’t break the standards of professional courtesy and deliberately steal clients or commit fraud to gain an unfair advantage, but business is war. What was it that PMPM said? Winners go home and fuck the prom queen! There is plenty of opportunity for everyone who is intelligent, disciplined and who can read the market and predict the demand. It isn’t rocket science. There are SOOO many starving loan officers right now (those that are still in the industry). What did they do with all that money they made in '04 to '07? They failed to leverage what they had and now they are paying the price. I DO NOT feel sorry for them. /rant[/quote]

I agree with your business philosophy. All I’m saying is that the success books that say “everyone can be rich if they apply principle X, Y, and Z” are crap because they do not understand the competitive nature of the economy. IE, in order to have high wages SOMEONE has to have low wages, if someone applies principle X(let’s say including risk-reversal into their marketing) they will probably out-pull the people NOT using the risk-reversal, but what happens when every competitor begins implementing risk-reversal? Well, suddenly principle X isn’t effective anymore.

What about other principles, ie right now I can do a lot of ‘lifehacks’ that make me a more competent person, such as eating clean nutrition, getting good sleep, etc. They give me a one-up over CEO’s who are the competition because I have more productive/creative hours than the techie eating frozen burrito’s and playing online games, so my business out-pulls his.

But what happens when he starts practicing principle Y, the principle of optimal nutrition? Again, competition has increased and now me and him are ‘even’ again.

It’s just messed up, but this is how it works. That’s why the self help industry is harmful to my interests in many ways, because at some point someone is going to talk about omega 3’s to the public and all of a sudden my mental edge is gone, or at some point people are going to realize that they are stunting their intelligence by not sleeping enough.

You see that? You got ahead because you developed a mindset that is not common in a glutted economy with the US. Now what if all of a sudden EVERYONE adopts your mindset? Would that mindset lead to financial success? It wouldn’t anymore, because you would be competing against your equal.

Thankfully, a lot of the smart people have been picked for a path via our education system, so they aren’t running as our competitors. We are competing, imo, against incompetents(no hate, that’s just how I see the small-midsize business world).

Summary point: I agree with your ruthlessness, just because one person becoming wealthy results in another becoming less wealthy(or missing out on potential wealth) doesn’t mean I’m anti-business–It just means that Brian Tracy is a huckster for saying that everyone can have wealth.

185

so, saving never works.

186

[quote]ladieslove wrote:
…angry pants.

[/quote]

snicker

Sorry, the 12 year old in me just giggled.

187

[quote]nobodyreal wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

Someone up there said that the wealth that I accumulate is DEPRIVING someone else of wealth… Now I could go and argue about how different sectors grow with the economy and actually disprove the his statement, but I won’t. Instead I will address it this way: FUCK THEM, IT’S A JUNGLE OUT THERE AND IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE STUFF, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE SANDBOX. I don’t really care if my business edges in on someone Else’s “territory”. Now I won’t break the standards of professional courtesy and deliberately steal clients or commit fraud to gain an unfair advantage, but business is war. What was it that PMPM said? Winners go home and fuck the prom queen! There is plenty of opportunity for everyone who is intelligent, disciplined and who can read the market and predict the demand. It isn’t rocket science. There are SOOO many starving loan officers right now (those that are still in the industry). What did they do with all that money they made in '04 to '07? They failed to leverage what they had and now they are paying the price. I DO NOT feel sorry for them. /rant[/quote]

I agree with your business philosophy. All I’m saying is that the success books that say “everyone can be rich if they apply principle X, Y, and Z” are crap because they do not understand the competitive nature of the economy. IE, in order to have high wages SOMEONE has to have low wages, if someone applies principle X(let’s say including risk-reversal into their marketing) they will probably out-pull the people NOT using the risk-reversal, but what happens when every competitor begins implementing risk-reversal? Well, suddenly principle X isn’t effective anymore.

What about other principles, ie right now I can do a lot of ‘lifehacks’ that make me a more competent person, such as eating clean nutrition, getting good sleep, etc. They give me a one-up over CEO’s who are the competition because I have more productive/creative hours than the techie eating frozen burrito’s and playing online games, so my business out-pulls his.

But what happens when he starts practicing principle Y, the principle of optimal nutrition? Again, competition has increased and now me and him are ‘even’ again.

It’s just messed up, but this is how it works. That’s why the self help industry is harmful to my interests in many ways, because at some point someone is going to talk about omega 3’s to the public and all of a sudden my mental edge is gone, or at some point people are going to realize that they are stunting their intelligence by not sleeping enough.

You see that? You got ahead because you developed a mindset that is not common in a glutted economy with the US. Now what if all of a sudden EVERYONE adopts your mindset? Would that mindset lead to financial success? It wouldn’t anymore, because you would be competing against your equal.

Thankfully, a lot of the smart people have been picked for a path via our education system, so they aren’t running as our competitors. We are competing, imo, against incompetents(no hate, that’s just how I see the small-midsize business world).

Summary point: I agree with your ruthlessness, just because one person becoming wealthy results in another becoming less wealthy(or missing out on potential wealth) doesn’t mean I’m anti-business–It just means that Brian Tracy is a huckster for saying that everyone can have wealth.
[/quote]

I get your point, but as we evolve as a society, different skill sets become more common. The challenge is to stay on the cutting edge of Technology/nutrition/customer service/marketing/social networking. Who heard of Facebook three years ago? Now everyone has a page and if your small business doesn’t today, you are missing out. If you can stay ahead of the curve, you will capture new markets as well as the fall out from people/businesses that fail to evolve. The “bar” is ever raising, so we must rise with it.

189

[quote]OWspider wrote:
If you think the men and women of this country who DEFEND YOU are tools then GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY BITCH[/quote]

I dont need to be defended thanks anyway

190

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
The more people that make the world a new and better place in order to function a higher efficiency is going to make money. Everyone can be wealthy because if you think NEW RATHER THAN PAST and not like the FUTURE scare you, you’ll expand the economy and you won’t have to take from some one else.

Just because you can’t free yourself to think new thoughts or come up with new evolved ideas, don’t get mad at people for it.

I can’t wait for that new movie INCEPTION to come out. [/quote]

What’s your profession?

192

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]ladieslove wrote:
…angry pants.

[/quote]

snicker

Sorry, the 12 year old in me just giggled.[/quote]

lol as far as i’m concerned every insult can be ended with ‘pants’

193

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
Sales[/quote]

Thanks for the answer. It’s a good field for you - a field in which you can use your line of shit.

I’d also like to know, if you care to share again, where you found that:

  1. Dislike of self help products correlates to employment at Taco Bell and living in trailers (two things which you lack respect for while at the same time boasting of how respectful you are and how disrespectful I am)

  2. Dislike of the military and self help correlates to suffering from abuse in the past.

Let us know, genius.