Anti-Self Help Crusade

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148

[quote]yusef wrote:

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
Self help books are worthless. I have never read one, [/quote]

This made me lol.[/quote]

Ill admit, I entered this conversation a little closed minded. Since I have no experience myself with self help books, I guess I shouldnt be making that claim. I also had a different idea in my head of what others here may consider a self help book.

On the flip side, I dont need to stick my hand in a fire to know its going to burn. One doesnt always have to experience something to understand the outcome of it, sometimes people can understand the outcome based on emperical data (outcomes observed from experiments, regardless of who performed the experiment).

However, I know people who have experience with self help books, that read and read, and never get anywhere. Its because THEY will not change, not because of anything else.

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[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

you are so full of shit I can’t believe it. Is this supposed to be good or what? because I don’t know and I don’t care. Each day, each moment is new and the past, your ‘‘achievements’’ that you seem to be self-righteous about will never give you any real security and will not make everything golden for you.

I wrote a bunch of other stuff but it wouldn’t make sense for someone so conditionned

Also I dont know if you are conscious that not everywhere in the world being in the military is so well seen as in the USA. For me it makes you a tool in every sense of the word.

God I hope everyone is not a douche like you in those higher education etablishments[/quote]

Well thats fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion in this country (though I see you are from Canada) and because of people like me (and many others) who have selflessly given up a lot to serve their country, they still have that fucking right.

Youre right though, how could having a good degree, valuable military experience (as seen by employers), a good wife, a good paying job doing something I want to do, ever possibly make me happy.

Listen, I dont give a shit if you approve of it. I dont give a shit if people around the world dont like the US military. Dont you think I know that? Have you personally been overseas in multiple countries such as:

Turkey
Kuwait
Iraq
Afghanistan
Spain
Germany
Bahrain
Saudi Arabi
Italy
Iceland
Portugal

And spent time with the civilians in these countries, as a member of the US military? Guess what, I have, an other than a couple dickbags in Spain, we were welcomed with open arms, people buying us drinks at bars and telling us how glad they are that Sadaam is out of power and no longer walking on this earth.

You sound like someone who has been chewed up and spit out by life. Go read a self help book.[/quote]

I dont care if it’s the Us military, the Canadian, mexican military or any other. You are still a tool, something that is being used for a purpose.

selflessly given up for your country? hahahahaha. Everything is calculated to serve your personal interest, to get a higher status and recognition. Would you join the military if they were not paying for college, if the employers didn’t care for it, or if there was something better to do at that time?

I understand some people go in the military because they need a job, but I’ll never believe that it’s ‘‘selfless’’

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[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
This IS a lot more experience and success than most people will experience. And that’s great. God bless (seriously)!

So you clearly are NOT so ordinary (could be a good thing). I just don’t think being ordinary is a bad thing either, like most of pop culture would have us believe. [/quote]

Thanks for the kind words Brick.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with ordinary, but I wish people could see how they are settling for things, instead of pursuing what they truely want.

All of our actions are based on some desire we have to obtain something in life. Sometimes, this means doing things you do not want to do in order to obtain a desired result. However, many people just wont do things they dont want to do, because they are typically hard. Those are the ones that end up settling.

The crazy thing about chasing what you really want, is that very few people want to help you along the way. Sans people you know, most people dont give two shits about you. So, when you need someone to help or make something happen, and they are the only ones that can do it (like a counselor at school, who needs to sign you off for a class), you have to push them, because in all honesty, they really dont give a shit (most of the time). And if they still dont want to do it, then you have to go above them and push.

In the end, it can make you look like a jerk sometimes, but you have to look out for numero uno.

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[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
This IS a lot more experience and success than most people will experience. And that’s great. God bless (seriously)!

So you clearly are NOT so ordinary (could be a good thing). I just don’t think being ordinary is a bad thing either, like most of pop culture would have us believe. [/quote]

Thanks for the kind words Brick.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with ordinary, but I wish people could see how they are settling for things, instead of pursuing what they truely want.

All of our actions are based on some desire we have to obtain something in life. Sometimes, this means doing things you do not want to do in order to obtain a desired result. However, many people just wont do things they dont want to do, because they are typically hard. Those are the ones that end up settling.

The crazy thing about chasing what you really want, is that very few people want to help you along the way. Sans people you know, most people dont give two shits about you. So, when you need someone to help or make something happen, and they are the only ones that can do it (like a counselor at school, who needs to sign you off for a class), you have to push them, because in all honesty, they really dont give a shit (most of the time). And if they still dont want to do it, then you have to go above them and push.

In the end, it can make you look like a jerk sometimes, but you have to look out for numero uno.[/quote]

You and others (even in my circle of friends) keep using the word “settling”.

I think you and others fail to realize that concepts such as “fulfillment”, “success”, “achievement”, and “ambition” don’t even occur to people! So the concept of “settling” doesn’t occur to them either. After all, if they’re not striving, how are they settling? Is there something wrong with these people? No!

I got into problems when I actually believed that most people are ambitious.

Example: I once had a job that was so boring to me that it affected my work. I literally felt like someone injected me with thorazine every day at work. That’s how boring it was to ME. My co-workers got along just fine. Why? They didn’t get bored at that mopey, boring, dull, SEDATE job. It’s in their personalities, hence why they don’t get bored. They’re unambitious, and that’s that. So work doesn’t have to be so damn challenging and intriguing to them, nor are they striving for some position or status. They are NOT settling.

I used to complain to my therapist all the time, “I can’t believe this job is so boring. Why is it so boring to me, but everyone just gets along fine?”

His response: “Brad, this stuff doesn’t occur to them! I have people in this office who eat dinner everyday on snack trays! In fact, they SEEK jobs that are inherently boring! They don’t give a shit, so therefore success AND boredom don’t occur to them either way. That’s not settling.”

153

I don’t have anything against self-help books or people that read them. In fact, I refer many of my patients to certain self-help books.

BUT I agree that there’s a lot of crap. Two criteria I adhere regarding self-help books:

  1. They have to be backed up by science. If it’s not evidence-based, then it goes straight to bin (which is about 80% of them).

  2. They should not promise any kind of rebirth, happiness or stuff like that…

Chasing happiness is a recipy for failure and cause of a lot of psychopathology.

154

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

selflessly given up for your country? hahahahaha. Everything is calculated to serve your personal interest, to get a higher status and recognition. Would you join the military if they were not paying for college, if the employers didn’t care for it, or if there was something better to do at that time?

I understand some people go in the military because they need a job, but I’ll never believe that it’s ‘‘selfless’’[/quote]

Date of enlistment: 17 Mar 2003

Keep this date in mind. After 11 Sep 2001, it was very clear shit was going to hit the fan.

Beginning of OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom): 7 Oct 2001
Beginning of OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom): 20 Mar 2003

In fact, my parents were driving me to MEPPS (place you go the night before you ship out to basic), and on the 3 hour drive we listend to the President of the United States declare war on Iraq, live on the radio. So, when others were fleaing to countries such as Canada to get away from the military, I was joining. A few of us decided to step up and fight for our country, and for the people who have died before us doing this, and for the people who cant fight for themselves.

Another interesting fact, I was not headed for college, ever. It was not until the military that I realized my potential and decided to get out and go to school, and may very likely going back in as a commissioned officer.

You are right, it is about the desire. My desire was to do something honorable and selfless in the name of helping others. I joined to fight the war on terrorism, so that I may leave this place a better world than when I came into it. Will that actually happen, who knows, doesnt look like it the way things are going. But I still have to try. I want my kids (when I have some) to be able to enjoy the freedoms I do.

155

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
You and others (even in my circle of friends) keep using the word “settling”.
[/quote]

I guess settling to me is the people who have the ability to change things for the better and they dont.

If they dont know better, I guess ignorance is bliss.

In the end, its all about happiness.

I realize sometimes people get too caught up in amibtions and what not, and never get to enjoy some aspects of life. I try not to do this, I try to enjoy every day. However, sometimes I do get caught up with so much going on, so I imagine after school I will slow down, and maybe just chill and enjoy things the way they are. That, to me, is not settling, thats enjoying the fruits of your labor.

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[quote]jasmincar wrote:

selflessly given up for your country? hahahahaha. Everything is calculated to serve your personal interest, to get a higher status and recognition. Would you join the military if they were not paying for college, if the employers didn’t care for it, or if there was something better to do at that time?

I understand some people go in the military because they need a job, but I’ll never believe that it’s ‘‘selfless’’[/quote]

Here is another little piece for you:

“I am an American fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.”

This is in the first article of the US militarys Code of Conduct. Try saying that, knowing that its a real possibility, and then come back and tell me its just a fucking job.

You, sir, are the tool.

157

stop this you are gonna make me cry. What do you think they are saying to themselves on the other side? The exact same thing as you, just change ‘‘American way of life’’ by ‘‘Islam’’ or ''equality ‘’

I dont care about the law around it, the situation and the label people have on each other, which is society. You are still killing someone and there is no difference between that and an homicide. That’s a direct perception, the only thing that matter. All your ideas around it are artificial, the only real thing is the uglyness. Having an uniform and signing a little paper with ‘‘I am defending my country’’ on it doesnt make any difference

I am not gonna fight for my country. I dont even believe in the concept of a country, altough I believe in civism. Maybe I have a canadian passport but I don’t consider myself part of any organisation. I am a nobody. In fact I could be born on the other side and be someone else, what’s the difference?

I am sure you want to change things for the best and I am sure you are a ‘‘good guy’’. Most people are. but since at least 2000 years people have been fighting for various ideal, and look where we are now

If there is a world war three you bet I will be fighting on MY side against anyone who wants to hurt me for any of their twisted ideals or because of their ‘‘duty’’

       wild life
       along with my wife 
       I am going up in the mountain for the rest of my life
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[quote]jasmincar wrote:
If there is a world war three you bet I will be fighting on MY side against anyone who wants to hurt me for any of their twisted ideals or because of their ‘‘duty’’

[/quote]

Thats all I feel like I am doing. Thats what most of us are doing. Nobody wants to take someones life (ok, some fucks in the military might like it), but most dont ever want to be put in that situation.

I never said it was right, I dont believe I have the right to take any human beings life.

Unfortunately, when it comes between me and them, I will choose my side and do what it takes to make sure my side prevails. These people hate us, hate you and your way of life, hate your wife, your family, and your friends because of the beliefs and lives they live.

159

[quote]Carnage wrote:
I don’t have anything against self-help books or people that read them. In fact, I refer many of my patients to certain self-help books.

BUT I agree that there’s a lot of crap. Two criteria I adhere regarding self-help books:

  1. They have to be backed up by science. If it’s not evidence-based, then it goes straight to bin (which is about 80% of them).

[/quote]

Wow, you’re missing plenty of very good home spun wisdom from people like Zig Ziglar.

160

[quote]smithers584 wrote:

In the end, it can make you look like a jerk sometimes, but you have to look out for numero uno.[/quote]

True in some cases.

But this sort of attitude has lead to quite a bit of disharmony for myself and others in workplaces and relationships and just everyday living.

162

Brickn, I’m glad you pointed out how not everyone CAN be rich. That’s what I don’t like about this self help, when angrychicken started his successful business ventures and acquired wealth, someone else was being deprived of wealth. If he started an automotive repair shop, there was another automotive repair shop owner who started LOSING money because there is only a limited amount of people in a specific location seeking to have their car repaired.

Even if he was the only auto-repair shop in the nation, he still would be depriving other individuals of money, maybe since they got their trans fixed they aren’t going to buy a new car this year or they aren’t flying down south for Spring Break?

Bah lol, my analogies suck, but you get the point. I’m glad you do, because it took me a long time to learn this and it made me stop being a punk when it came to talking business.

Anyways, it’s just cool that you pointed out the competitive nature of the economy/life and how ridiculous everything would be if the competitiveness was increased. I think maybe that’s why countries with heavy socialist economies(Norway) rate so well on happiness surveys(no socialist), because they are happy with families/good food/various diversions and not intently focused on making a mil.

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[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I also find it funny that people think there’s something so disappointed about me or vindictive or frustrated because I pointed out the realities of life–particularly in careers and employment and finances and intellect–in which self help authors delude people!

Actually, when I did away with self help, my outlook and life improved tremendously! I was disappointed far less; started getting along better with co-workers, friends, and family; and started to accept life and people AS IS sometimes. Much of the self help material I was exposed to gave me VERY unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be like!

And what is so negative about challenging ridiculous written work? Like criticizing someone for saying that YOU, the reader, can increase income by 1/4 to 1/2 EVERY year, when it’s clear that nearly all people are NOT in the position to do that.

[/quote]

If you would have said “some” self-help books are not worth reading I think you would have gotten more agreement from the members. Who could possibly disagree with that? However, many self-help books have helped a lot of people including myself and others on this thread.
[/quote]

Some have helped me too - the ones that were written by people with real credentials - like the ones I listed above.

I understand you had busy weeks in the early 90s. However, if you slept six to eight hours per day, you couldn’t have had a 20 hour day as BT suggests. [/quote]

Sorry, I didn’t see where he suggested working 20 hours a day.
[/quote]

Shall I go through what he espouses again, AND add in other suggestions he has for daily living?

  1. Go to work an hour early and leave an hour late.

(This is on top of travel time. It also takes people who EAT HEALTHY BREAKFASTS an hour to get ready considering what we eat - oatmeal, veggie egg white omelets with cheese, coffee or tea, fruit - stuff that has to be prepared. Some people shower in the morning too. In major metropolitan areas, some people travel for up to an hour to work and back and sometimes travel to nearby states (eg, NJ to NYC, NYC to CT, NYC to CT or NJ).

  1. Read for an hour or two every morning. This is on top of number 1. So we’re already making for some long hours now. Half to one hour getting ready, one to two hours of reading, and one to two hours of travel time - not to mention unexpected traffic jams.

  2. Write your goals (even long term ones) EVERYDAY in the morning and at night (another 15 to 30 minutes of the day, depending how much thought someone put into this.

  3. Spend time with your kids.

  4. Spend time with your partner.

  5. Exercise three times or more per week (how to fit this in with days involving 1 to 5 is beyond me considering travel time to and from the gym for 1 to 1.5 hour workouts.)

  6. Listen to self help audio in your car or on your headphones on your way to work.

  7. Add 1 to 6 to all the annoying shit we must do on a daily basis, like go to the cleaners, clean our homes and kitchens, prepare food, get gas, get our cars fixed, go grocery shopping, and PERHAPS you won’t have a 20 hour day, but a fairly long one.

Not to mention I’d be SO fucking stressed out from over-stimulation and lack of sleep! Perhaps I’m wimpier than I thought I was. Poor me.

I’m really surprised you don’t see the inherent flaws I explained in his writings.

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[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
You guys are pussies. You really are. Now I’m understanding the psyche a little better here. BOO HOO!

Economies grow and expands by the decade. What a bunch of crap you guys cry about. [/quote]

Obviously, you continue to ignore posts.

I’m not crying about anything. I’m criticizing the self-help movement.

Thanks!

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[quote]nobodyreal wrote:
Brickn, I’m glad you pointed out how not everyone CAN be rich. That’s what I don’t like about this self help, when angrychicken started his successful business ventures and acquired wealth, someone else was being deprived of wealth. If he started an automotive repair shop, there was another automotive repair shop owner who started LOSING money because there is only a limited amount of people in a specific location seeking to have their car repaired.

Even if he was the only auto-repair shop in the nation, he still would be depriving other individuals of money, maybe since they got their trans fixed they aren’t going to buy a new car this year or they aren’t flying down south for Spring Break?

Bah lol, my analogies suck, but you get the point. I’m glad you do, because it took me a long time to learn this and it made me stop being a punk when it came to talking business.

Anyways, it’s just cool that you pointed out the competitive nature of the economy/life and how ridiculous everything would be if the competitiveness was increased. I think maybe that’s why countries with heavy socialist economies(Norway) rate so well on happiness surveys(no socialist), because they are happy with families/good food/various diversions and not intently focused on making a mil.[/quote]

Fair points.

It’s not just a matter of competition though - why people can’t get rich.

It’s also a matter of what it takes to get rich:

  1. Luck.
  2. Intelligence.
  3. Information.
  4. Hard AND smart work (This means an enormous amount of work. I don’t buy this New Age Tim Ferris shit about working very little. Even if you do start a killer website or business, it’s an enormous amount of work in the beginning stages anyway!)
  5. Ambition.

Number 2, intelligence, could be included in number 1, because how intelligent you are depends on the parents you were born to. You don’t choose your parents.

I know people will comment or think on this, “Intelligence is not a hereditary trait.” Sorry folks, it is! Just like athletic capability as well. I politely ask people to not insult my or THEIR intelligence by telling me that a mentally challenged person (sub-75 IQ) can turn into a genius and a spaz is going to one day have a sub-ten-second 100 meter dash! Sorry, ain’t gonna happen, no matter how much they “go for it!”

Intelligence and physical capability is necessary to succeed in a field in which someone will be highly compensated (law, medicine, some life or physical sciences, athletics, entertainment). Actually in sports and some forms of entertainment, both intelligence and physical capabilities are necessary.

Or you can have an extremely unique gift of gab or be beautiful or drop-dead handsome (back to the luck category) and/or simply step in shit (more luck).

Brian Tracy has also said other dumb shit in his books like, “How badly do you want it?” and “You can have anything you really want as long as you work hard and long enough.”

Pious fraud. Imagine fucking telling grown adults they can have and be anything they want. It’s truly hysterical!

This does NOT mean that I encourage myself and others to not go for what they want with a big kicker! And that kicker is, You can have and do anything you want … WITHIN YOUR LIMITATIONS.

Sorry. :slight_smile:

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[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
Go for your dreams, fuck the chumps. [/quote]

I don’t dream. If you want to, it’s fine with me.

I ASPIRE and DO - no dreaming.

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And as I’ve written before on this board – two simple yet profound statements by my granddad:

  1. “You don’t have to think.”

  2. “Are you a dreamer? You’re not supposed to dream.”

My life improved ever since he said those words.

169

BT also said something like: “What would you dare to dream if you knew there were no limitations on what you could have?”

What nerve! I say nerve because I want the wealth of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, or come to think of it, any of the top 20 richest men on earth! I want their income and I want their belongings and I want their ability to boff almost any drop-dead gorgeous piece of ass on this earth.