Anti-Self Help Crusade

Off Topic
125

[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

I want to meet the guy who really is where he wants to be: not gonna happen[/quote]

Well, thats because people who achieve their goal of being “where they want to be”, tend to set new goals once they are there.

Me for example:

  • Enlisted in the military after high school, fought in two wars and multiple campaigns.
  • Finished my enlistment, got out, joined the Air National Guard in my state.
  • Got right into college, being very successful in my degree (3.8+ GPA in Mechanical Engineering)
  • Have absolutely no debt (and own two good cars), and I get paid to go to school due to my VA benefits, and the Air National Guard picks up most of my tuition.
  • I have a great marriage (been married almost 5 years now) and a great wife
  • I have been offered great co-op oppurtunities with major companies with the aviation industry(which is what I am pursuing), and I get paid to work as an engineer with these companies when I am not in school (like summer time)
  • I will graduate with honors next year, and move on with my life.

Now, am I where I want to be? Of course not, I want to be done with school and working full time, but as far as being where I wanted to be 4 years ago, Im spot on.[/quote]

See, this is all great stuff, and congratulations to you.

Who could put this down? Career, wife, military service, lack of debt. I just give credit to you.

I have no idea why you’d think because of my dislike of self-help that I wouldn’t want good for other people. Actually, my best friend Steven has said several times that I’m one of the most friendly, MORAL people he’s ever met, and I’ve know him since 8 years old. I even had another good friend (former boss too) who said to someone else in my presence, “He’s a very caring person - one of the more caring people you’ll meet. Maybe even too nice sometimes - never likes to see anyone hurt.” Does this sound like some angry, vindictive, devious person to you people?

126

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

Well, according to many on this board, those who don’t strive for greatness–that is, those who have regular jobs and ordinary skills and aspirations–are just “ordinary”, LOWER human beings who don’t strive for (here’s a good self help line for ya) “constant and never-ending improvement”. You know, garbage men, gravediggers, orange crate stackers, toothpaste stackers, at Duane Reade, janitors, the Mexican who makes my roast beef sandwich at the deli, waiters, people who wave a wand over my bag at the airport, and so on – all jagoffs who don’t deserve respect because they are in positions in which “greatness” can’t be accomplished, nor is ambition called for. [/quote]

Who said anything about anyone being LOWER than anyone else? And just because you dont have an awesome job, doesnt mean you cant obtain greatness, in any aspect of your life.

Some people live to work, and get caught up in material objects, and some work to live, and tend to find happiness in other realms of life. To each their own.

127

Brick -

I wasnt meaning to judge you, I am just saying that reading your post, most sound negative. Obviously, a few others saw it that way too.

Im not saying thats you, Im just saying thats what it seems like to some of us that do not know you.

128

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
Brick -

I wasnt meaning to judge you, I am just saying that reading your post, most sound negative. Obviously, a few others saw it that way too.

Im not saying thats you, Im just saying thats what it seems like to some of us that do not know you.[/quote]

Fair points and I know you’re a good guy.

129

[quote]smithers584 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I suspect that many people purchase self-help books because they are already achieving at a fairly high level but are aiming beyond that.

Care to elaborate?

People who are successful know how to succeed, at anything. They know the steps to take and the work it takes, thats not something you find in a book.[/quote]

I totally disagree. Most people who are very successful are that way because they are constantly seeking out any resource that will help them, even a little bit. Information is information whether it is received from another person or from a book; from an audio tape or a conversation with a friend; from a seminar by a respected authority or a random guy on the street.

I think you also might be getting “self-help” confused with “New Age pseudo-spiritualism.” Who knows, maybe I’m the one who’s getting it confused.

To me, “self-help” implies information on changing behaviors and habits. Maybe for some, changing a behavior or habit is as simple as snapping their fingers. But I (and I suspect the vast majority of other human beings) often have difficulty changing these things, especially if they have been in place for years.

I consider myself a fairly successful person. But that’s not going to stop me from constantly seeking out new information on how to improve the things that I think need to be improved.

130

[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

I want to meet the guy who really is where he wants to be: not gonna happen[/quote]

Well, thats because people who achieve their goal of being “where they want to be”, tend to set new goals once they are there.

Me for example:

  • Enlisted in the military after high school, fought in two wars and multiple campaigns.
  • Finished my enlistment, got out, joined the Air National Guard in my state.
  • Got right into college, being very successful in my degree (3.8+ GPA in Mechanical Engineering)
  • Have absolutely no debt (and own two good cars), and I get paid to go to school due to my VA benefits, and the Air National Guard picks up most of my tuition.
  • I have a great marriage (been married almost 5 years now) and a great wife
  • I have been offered great co-op oppurtunities with major companies with the aviation industry(which is what I am pursuing), and I get paid to work as an engineer with these companies (actually, I have only co-oped with General Electric, turned down other offers because I like working for GE so much)when I am not in school (like summer time).
  • I will graduate with honors next year, and move on with my life.

Now, am I where I want to be? Of course not, I want to be done with school and working full time, but as far as being where I invisioned I would be (now) 4 years ago, Im spot on.[/quote]

you are so full of shit I can’t believe it. Is this supposed to be good or what? because I don’t know and I don’t care. Each day, each moment is new and the past, your ‘‘achievements’’ that you seem to be self-righteous about will never give you any real security and will not make everything golden for you.

I wrote a bunch of other stuff but it wouldn’t make sense for someone so conditionned

Also I dont know if you are conscious that not everywhere in the world being in the military is so well seen as in the USA. For me it makes you a tool in every sense of the word.

God I hope everyone is not a douche like you in those higher education etablishments

131

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
quietly munches popcorn, amazed at the hypocrisy, ignorance and mindless judgment in this thread
[/quote]

I have to admit, my kneejerk response is to loathe self-help media. In my experience, the people who read self-help books and follow such programs are usually nutjobs. That isn’t to say there are people who don’t fit this profile, this is just what I have witnessed. Obviously, this would only be the folks who advertise their new-found religion and are trying to spread their joy, akin to ‘enthusiastic’ born agains. I’m sure the saner folks just keep it to themselves.

So, not to speak for anyone else, this is why my first thought about self-help is negative. Logically, I can’t find any fault in self-improvement through the wisdom of someone with some insights or similar experiences, or from finding inspiration from a auto-biography.

[quote]
I have no wish to engage in a discussion about this tonight, as I am about to meet someone for dinner, however, I will say that taking a percentage of authors (of any topic) and making broad, all inclusive generalizations about said topic is not only a logical fallacy, but downright ignorant.

And for those of you who don’t know me, I went to prison at 18, got out and went into construction, started a business or two, got into mortgage, bought some real estate, opened a marketing company, got involved with a number of non-profits and economic development organizations, helped a bunch of other small businesses succeed, opened an renewable energy company, and I LOVE Brian Tracy. My bookshelf is a fucking Self Help library.[/quote]

My opinion, off the top of my head and with only the info you’ve provided on this forum about yourself, is that you would have done that without the books. But you can give the credit to the books and I’ll just make Marge Simpson noises of disapproval :wink:

I’m going to qualify that with my own experience: I also come from a background that would surprise most people who know me. Some terrible childhood experiences, on my own at 16, a period without an address, high school dropout, living with an abusive dude until 17 until I fled to BC on my own, worked at many jobs, even fighting significant sexism to get union rate and being the first woman to do a job, saving every penny to put myself through university (and some other details omitted for brevity and self respect, blah blah blah) and now it seems like a different life I’m living with a house I will pay off in a few years, a nice German car in my driveway, and working in one of those fantasy places Brick described where I can go unwind with a PlayStation in the company rec room when my juices aren’t flowing.

Which, with regards to mediocrity, to those around me, my life is pretty average but I don’t think my path was. Although, I don’t really think I’m average because I do tend towards teh crazy, but I think I’m allowed :slight_smile:

But I wouldn’t dare give anyone else credit for anything I’ve ever achieved, but then again that is MY religion. So like folks who must credit God, self-help guru of the day or what have you, I must assert the opposite, because that is where my drive comes from. So I guess it’s a position of bias. Which, I suspect, most folks asserting one way or another are doing so to validate their own experience, with or without help.

Anyway, I gave all that background to make the point that you are who you are and if you want excuses to fail, you’ll make them, and if you want reasons to do well, you’ll find them but I don’t believe that self-help books work on some people because they are so effective, but because the people who make them work wanted them to.

[quote]
I agree that “The Secret” is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever written. It was so bad, I couldn’t finish it! THAT is not what self help is.

It sounds to me that a lot of the folks here who “hate” self help and judge others that have found it useful MAY have a few self limiting beliefs that just MAY be affecting the quality of their lives… Just sayin’…[/quote]

I fucking hate the Secret. And yoga. Just because :stuck_out_tongue:

Once I did get my hands on a self-help book when I was about 18 and it was all about that inner child crap, given to me by a friend who found it worked for her was concerned for me since I was prone to being a bit on the reckless and depressive side, but I couldn’t stomach it and self-pity seemed like a destructive force to indulge. So I never got to far into the book. It ends up, a couple of years later, my friend had a total nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for sometime. So, admittedly, this is probably where most of my bias originates.[/quote]

You’re right, Deb - I don’t attribute my modest level of success to ANY book. But that isn’t to say that some of what I read didn’t plant the seeds of ideas that I was eventually able to actualize. But I certainly didn’t read a book and follow a step by step plan or anything of the sort. I did the work.

For the record, I was being a bit sarcastic when I wrote, “I LOVE Brian Tracy”. Most of the books I have read that fall under what I call the “self help” category are books about psychology (written by PhD’s), evolution, biology, anthropology, NLP, Meyers Briggs, a BUNCH of sales and marketing books, The Western Cannon, auto biographies of great people, books about goal setting, etc…

The Secret, or “Getting the Life you Want” or “Ten Steps to (insert category here) success” or any of that Woo Woo crap… Not so much.

I will say that using affirmations, visualization exercises, re framing exercises, and guided meditations have helped me tremendously to “uncover” a lot of the shit that was holding me back (beliefs from my childhood, negative self esteem, etc…)

Let me qualify that by saying that I don’t go around saying, “I love myself, I love myself,… etc…” LOL Most of the self esteem work that I’ve done revolves around asking questions of my self such as:

What am I happy about in life right now?
What about that makes me happy?
How does that make me feel?

What am I excited about in life right now?
What about that makes me excited?
How does that make me feel?

Etc…

Based on the work by Nathaniel Branden

I have read SOME of Brian Tracy’s work and have absorbed what I considered useful and discarded what I considered silly. The same goes for ANY author - if you take responsibility for the media that you expose yourself to and absorb, you will be able to facilitate a CONSCIOUS EVOLUTION. But it has to be something YOU build for yourself.

Like you, I had it pretty rough growing up: I left home at sixteen as well after my mother’s FOURTH husband was beating the shit out of her and stepped in and she called the cops on ME! Husband number three put me in the hospital for a week when I tried to stand up to him when I was ten and she told them I fell down the stairs… Husband number two locked me in my room for days at a time - so I had a lot of shit that I had to come to terms with and put behind me as well. I can totally relate to that and I respect what it took for you to overcome that.

For me, it seemed like a very obvious concept that our Life is a result of our actions, which are a result of out habits, which are a result of our discipline, which are a result of our thoughts which are a result of our motives, which are a result of our beliefs, which are a result of what we feel we deserve, which is a result of our self esteem, which is a result of our self concept. So changes to a level that is deeper will produce changes further downstream. Anyone can challenge me on this one all you want - I KNOW this to be a fact because I’ve done the work. I was a pretty pathetic person at one point - barely finished school, drug dealer turned stick up kid cuz I thought I was SOOO gangsta (learned what a REAL gangsta was in prison)… Had the shit beaten out of me since I was about 3 after my Dad left cuz I was just stubborn and hated being told what to do (part of me STILL hates it)… I was able to change. It took A LOT of mistakes and A LOT of hard knocks and lessons learned the HARD WAY. But I eventually realized that the pain and disappointment I felt was not worth the feeling of “being RIGHT” and blaming others for my situation. So I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY.

Reading various books helped me get to that point. I was an electrician, so I wasn’t exactly having deep philosophical conversations with my coworkers very often (I DID have a few, however). So I completely agree with the person on the first page who so eloquently wrote that “if you have to read books to help you improve your self, there is something wrong with you”. LOL There was DEFINITELY something wrong with me and I’m sure glad I was able to have access to a resource that helped me overcome it!

At any rate, I’ve written another wall of text so I should quit while I’m ahead. I hope that some of you with such a negative view of “self help” have gained a perspective that you may not have had before. If not, that’s OK too. Everyone is at where they’re at. Some people are ready to change and some people aren’t. But if I was able to come as far as I have with as much as I had against me, I can only believe that change is possible for just about anyone if the motivation is there. The hard part is maintaining the motivation over the long haul.

My .02

132

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I have read SOME of Brian Tracy’s work and have absorbed what I considered useful and discarded what I considered silly. The same goes for ANY author - if you take responsibility for the media that you expose yourself to and absorb, you will be able to facilitate a CONSCIOUS EVOLUTION. But it has to be something YOU build for yourself.[/quote]

I always love when somebody is able to express, in 3 sentences, what would take me a half-hour. This is exactly how I feel in regards to “responsibility for the media that you expose yourself to.”

Conscious evolution, I like that.

133

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

I want to meet the guy who really is where he wants to be: not gonna happen[/quote]

Well, thats because people who achieve their goal of being “where they want to be”, tend to set new goals once they are there.

Me for example:

  • Enlisted in the military after high school, fought in two wars and multiple campaigns.
  • Finished my enlistment, got out, joined the Air National Guard in my state.
  • Got right into college, being very successful in my degree (3.8+ GPA in Mechanical Engineering)
  • Have absolutely no debt (and own two good cars), and I get paid to go to school due to my VA benefits, and the Air National Guard picks up most of my tuition.
  • I have a great marriage (been married almost 5 years now) and a great wife
  • I have been offered great co-op oppurtunities with major companies with the aviation industry(which is what I am pursuing), and I get paid to work as an engineer with these companies (actually, I have only co-oped with General Electric, turned down other offers because I like working for GE so much)when I am not in school (like summer time).
  • I will graduate with honors next year, and move on with my life.

Now, am I where I want to be? Of course not, I want to be done with school and working full time, but as far as being where I invisioned I would be (now) 4 years ago, Im spot on.[/quote]

you are so full of shit I can’t believe it. Is this supposed to be good or what? because I don’t know and I don’t care. Each day, each moment is new and the past, your ‘‘achievements’’ that you seem to be self-righteous about will never give you any real security and will not make everything golden for you.

I wrote a bunch of other stuff but it wouldn’t make sense for someone so conditionned

Also I dont know if you are conscious that not everywhere in the world being in the military is so well seen as in the USA. For me it makes you a tool in every sense of the word.

God I hope everyone is not a douche like you in those higher education etablishments[/quote]

JAS: Dude, relax. You and I see eye to eye on some things and I like you. So I’m not making thos post to antagonize you.

I think this guy made a nice, fairly interesting life for himself.

134

[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

And for those of you who don’t know me, I went to prison at 18, got out and went into construction, started a business or two, got into mortgage, bought some real estate, opened a marketing company, got involved with a number of non-profits and economic development organizations, helped a bunch of other small businesses succeed, opened an renewable energy company, and I LOVE Brian Tracy. My bookshelf is a fucking Self Help library.

[/quote]

And you contribute you success to the books?

Tell me, how many other people in prison with you do you think would have changed their lives if they had read these books?

Congrats on your success story, I believe you are the exception to the rule.

I am man enough to admit that I have been too abrassive with argueing my point (I never thought people would pick apart my choice of words). If self help books truely help you, great, but you will never achieve excellence until you find out how to do it on your own. Maybe self help books will help get you there, but in all reality, 80% of the people in this country will never truely be excellent at anything, becuase they choose to take the easy road too often.[/quote]

I think the number is closer to 95%. The majority of people are indeed very lazy. And I do agree with you that I’m an exception and not the rule. I guess what I was trying to say is that change is POSSIBLE. We all have so much potential as humans. For moving in either a positive or a negative direction. At the end of the day it is our choices (or lack thereof) that define us. (I’m sure I read that in a self help book somewhere LOL)

135

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
quietly munches popcorn, amazed at the hypocrisy, ignorance and mindless judgment in this thread
[/quote]

I have to admit, my kneejerk response is to loathe self-help media. In my experience, the people who read self-help books and follow such programs are usually nutjobs. That isn’t to say there are people who don’t fit this profile, this is just what I have witnessed. Obviously, this would only be the folks who advertise their new-found religion and are trying to spread their joy, akin to ‘enthusiastic’ born agains. I’m sure the saner folks just keep it to themselves.

So, not to speak for anyone else, this is why my first thought about self-help is negative. Logically, I can’t find any fault in self-improvement through the wisdom of someone with some insights or similar experiences, or from finding inspiration from a auto-biography.

[quote]
I have no wish to engage in a discussion about this tonight, as I am about to meet someone for dinner, however, I will say that taking a percentage of authors (of any topic) and making broad, all inclusive generalizations about said topic is not only a logical fallacy, but downright ignorant.

And for those of you who don’t know me, I went to prison at 18, got out and went into construction, started a business or two, got into mortgage, bought some real estate, opened a marketing company, got involved with a number of non-profits and economic development organizations, helped a bunch of other small businesses succeed, opened an renewable energy company, and I LOVE Brian Tracy. My bookshelf is a fucking Self Help library.[/quote]

My opinion, off the top of my head and with only the info you’ve provided on this forum about yourself, is that you would have done that without the books. But you can give the credit to the books and I’ll just make Marge Simpson noises of disapproval :wink:

I’m going to qualify that with my own experience: I also come from a background that would surprise most people who know me. Some terrible childhood experiences, on my own at 16, a period without an address, high school dropout, living with an abusive dude until 17 until I fled to BC on my own, worked at many jobs, even fighting significant sexism to get union rate and being the first woman to do a job, saving every penny to put myself through university (and some other details omitted for brevity and self respect, blah blah blah) and now it seems like a different life I’m living with a house I will pay off in a few years, a nice German car in my driveway, and working in one of those fantasy places Brick described where I can go unwind with a PlayStation in the company rec room when my juices aren’t flowing.

Which, with regards to mediocrity, to those around me, my life is pretty average but I don’t think my path was. Although, I don’t really think I’m average because I do tend towards teh crazy, but I think I’m allowed :slight_smile:

But I wouldn’t dare give anyone else credit for anything I’ve ever achieved, but then again that is MY religion. So like folks who must credit God, self-help guru of the day or what have you, I must assert the opposite, because that is where my drive comes from. So I guess it’s a position of bias. Which, I suspect, most folks asserting one way or another are doing so to validate their own experience, with or without help.

Anyway, I gave all that background to make the point that you are who you are and if you want excuses to fail, you’ll make them, and if you want reasons to do well, you’ll find them but I don’t believe that self-help books work on some people because they are so effective, but because the people who make them work wanted them to.

[quote]
I agree that “The Secret” is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever written. It was so bad, I couldn’t finish it! THAT is not what self help is.

It sounds to me that a lot of the folks here who “hate” self help and judge others that have found it useful MAY have a few self limiting beliefs that just MAY be affecting the quality of their lives… Just sayin’…[/quote]

I fucking hate the Secret. And yoga. Just because :stuck_out_tongue:

Once I did get my hands on a self-help book when I was about 18 and it was all about that inner child crap, given to me by a friend who found it worked for her was concerned for me since I was prone to being a bit on the reckless and depressive side, but I couldn’t stomach it and self-pity seemed like a destructive force to indulge. So I never got to far into the book. It ends up, a couple of years later, my friend had a total nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for sometime. So, admittedly, this is probably where most of my bias originates.[/quote]

You’re right, Deb - I don’t attribute my modest level of success to ANY book. But that isn’t to say that some of what I read didn’t plant the seeds of ideas that I was eventually able to actualize. But I certainly didn’t read a book and follow a step by step plan or anything of the sort. I did the work.

For the record, I was being a bit sarcastic when I wrote, “I LOVE Brian Tracy”. Most of the books I have read that fall under what I call the “self help” category are books about psychology (written by PhD’s), evolution, biology, anthropology, NLP, Meyers Briggs, a BUNCH of sales and marketing books, The Western Cannon, auto biographies of great people, books about goal setting, etc…

The Secret, or “Getting the Life you Want” or “Ten Steps to (insert category here) success” or any of that Woo Woo crap… Not so much.

I will say that using affirmations, visualization exercises, re framing exercises, and guided meditations have helped me tremendously to “uncover” a lot of the shit that was holding me back (beliefs from my childhood, negative self esteem, etc…)

Let me qualify that by saying that I don’t go around saying, “I love myself, I love myself,… etc…” LOL Most of the self esteem work that I’ve done revolves around asking questions of my self such as:

What am I happy about in life right now?
What about that makes me happy?
How does that make me feel?

What am I excited about in life right now?
What about that makes me excited?
How does that make me feel?

Etc…

Based on the work by Nathaniel Branden

I have read SOME of Brian Tracy’s work and have absorbed what I considered useful and discarded what I considered silly. The same goes for ANY author - if you take responsibility for the media that you expose yourself to and absorb, you will be able to facilitate a CONSCIOUS EVOLUTION. But it has to be something YOU build for yourself.

Like you, I had it pretty rough growing up: I left home at sixteen as well after my mother’s FOURTH husband was beating the shit out of her and stepped in and she called the cops on ME! Husband number three put me in the hospital for a week when I tried to stand up to him when I was ten and she told them I fell down the stairs… Husband number two locked me in my room for days at a time - so I had a lot of shit that I had to come to terms with and put behind me as well. I can totally relate to that and I respect what it took for you to overcome that.

For me, it seemed like a very obvious concept that our Life is a result of our actions, which are a result of out habits, which are a result of our discipline, which are a result of our thoughts which are a result of our motives, which are a result of our beliefs, which are a result of what we feel we deserve, which is a result of our self esteem, which is a result of our self concept. So changes to a level that is deeper will produce changes further downstream. Anyone can challenge me on this one all you want - I KNOW this to be a fact because I’ve done the work. I was a pretty pathetic person at one point - barely finished school, drug dealer turned stick up kid cuz I thought I was SOOO gangsta (learned what a REAL gangsta was in prison)… Had the shit beaten out of me since I was about 3 after my Dad left cuz I was just stubborn and hated being told what to do (part of me STILL hates it)… I was able to change. It took A LOT of mistakes and A LOT of hard knocks and lessons learned the HARD WAY. But I eventually realized that the pain and disappointment I felt was not worth the feeling of “being RIGHT” and blaming others for my situation. So I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY.

Reading various books helped me get to that point. I was an electrician, so I wasn’t exactly having deep philosophical conversations with my coworkers very often (I DID have a few, however). So I completely agree with the person on the first page who so eloquently wrote that “if you have to read books to help you improve your self, there is something wrong with you”. LOL There was DEFINITELY something wrong with me and I’m sure glad I was able to have access to a resource that helped me overcome it!

At any rate, I’ve written another wall of text so I should quit while I’m ahead. I hope that some of you with such a negative view of “self help” have gained a perspective that you may not have had before. If not, that’s OK too. Everyone is at where they’re at. Some people are ready to change and some people aren’t. But if I was able to come as far as I have with as much as I had against me, I can only believe that change is possible for just about anyone if the motivation is there. The hard part is maintaining the motivation over the long haul.

My .02 [/quote]

This is a very good post.

I don’t classify the books you speak of as “self help” though. They’re books on specific topics.

I can relate to Debra and AC because I too had some messed up things happen growing up. I suffered from domestic violence and I pretty much don’t have a dad. Actually, I’ve considered that I don’t for a long, LONG time, despite the fact that he’s alive and isn’t a bad person per se. He was just so goddamn negligent and has suffered from various, very serious psychiatric disorders. Eventually his negligence and uncaring attitude made me discard him mentally, in my head that is. Now he’s completely discarded from my life. He’s probably one of the most selfish people I know.

So I too have had to get through some tough things.

136

If you prey enough on someone’s insecurity, you can turn them into a sucker for just about anything.

I did read a book that I felt truly impacted me and it wasn’t a self-help book, just philosophical. It really made me look at myself differently and I am NOT one of those people who is easily swayed. I was just so floored by the elegance of the concepts presented that I would look up and around me and think, “Is anyone else fucking reading this?”

I try to read it once a year and have gotten 13 people to read it so far.

I can’t tell if Brick is more masochist (for trying to get people to “see the light,” knowing he’ll end up frustrated) or sadist for how he goes off on people.

If Brick isn’t pissed, the world isn’t turning.

137

I’ve spent most of my infant and adolescent years in a children’s home / orphanage and was unhappy because of it and the circumstances: lots of violence among the ‘in-mates’ and ‘wardens’.

When I was eleven, I overheard someone saying that life could be pretty easy and one hell of a cool ride if everyone used ‘common sense’. Common sense - that was my ‘self-help’ methodology. Doesn’t sound too special, but it’s pretty brilliant from a KISS perspective. In a basal way, it can be applied to a lot of use cases. I never needed a self-help book and breezed through school and university and have very cool friends. And I know other guys with similar personal and professional careers.
But I wouldn’t go so far as to say self-help books are shite only because I never needed them.

There are some parallels to what debraD has stated, with the exception that I’m driving a FRENCH car, duh! (that coming from a German).

Regarding self-help books per se: it’s the ‘born-again’ preachers that I despise. In contrast, a friend of mine managed to pull himself out of some serious depressive shit using ‘NLP’ stuff. I haven’t tried that stuff, yet, but maybe, someday, it might come in handy. Who knows? Don’t discard a tool until you know what it can do.

Besides: ignoring the whole nurture vs nature debate, everyone comes with a certain set of abilities and skills. If you’re lacking in certain areas, self-help books might be of some help.
An example: some people are just wired in an ‘empathic’ kind of way, meaning that they have a pretty ‘intuitive’ and reliable way of sizing other people up. This ‘data’ can then be used to manipulate your surroundings. Sometimes it’s used unknowingly, sometimes in an intended fashion. Some say this comes from having developed some kind of ‘emotional radar’ as a child, picking up slight cues in people who might harm you. But here’s the catch: what if you aren’t wired that way? For instance, I’ve always had an easy time connecting to people, especially women. What if you’re an uptight son of a bitch who never learned to pay attention to his surroundings? Such a person could really benefit from self-help books. As much as it makes me cringe: I know a few guys who practically went from zero to hero with women by learning and applying PUA methods.

My take on the subject: self-help books can help. A lot. If used in a realistic context.

139

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I also find it funny that people think there’s something so disappointed about me or vindictive or frustrated because I pointed out the realities of life–particularly in careers and employment and finances and intellect–in which self help authors delude people!

Actually, when I did away with self help, my outlook and life improved tremendously! I was disappointed far less; started getting along better with co-workers, friends, and family; and started to accept life and people AS IS sometimes. Much of the self help material I was exposed to gave me VERY unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be like!

And what is so negative about challenging ridiculous written work? Like criticizing someone for saying that YOU, the reader, can increase income by 1/4 to 1/2 EVERY year, when it’s clear that nearly all people are NOT in the position to do that.

[/quote]

If you would have said “some” self-help books are not worth reading I think you would have gotten more agreement from the members. Who could possibly disagree with that? However, many self-help books have helped a lot of people including myself and others on this thread.
[/quote]

Some have helped me too - the ones that were written by people with real credentials - like the ones I listed above.

I understand you had busy weeks in the early 90s. However, if you slept six to eight hours per day, you couldn’t have had a 20 hour day as BT suggests. [/quote]

Sorry, I didn’t see where he suggested working 20 hours a day.

141

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

you are so full of shit I can’t believe it. Is this supposed to be good or what? because I don’t know and I don’t care. Each day, each moment is new and the past, your ‘‘achievements’’ that you seem to be self-righteous about will never give you any real security and will not make everything golden for you.

I wrote a bunch of other stuff but it wouldn’t make sense for someone so conditionned

Also I dont know if you are conscious that not everywhere in the world being in the military is so well seen as in the USA. For me it makes you a tool in every sense of the word.

God I hope everyone is not a douche like you in those higher education etablishments[/quote]

Well thats fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion in this country (though I see you are from Canada) and because of people like me (and many others) who have selflessly given up a lot to serve their country, they still have that fucking right.

Youre right though, how could having a good degree, valuable military experience (as seen by employers), a good wife, a good paying job doing something I want to do, ever possibly make me happy.

Listen, I dont give a shit if you approve of it. I dont give a shit if people around the world dont like the US military. Dont you think I know that? Have you personally been overseas in multiple countries such as:

Turkey
Kuwait
Iraq
Afghanistan
Spain
Germany
Bahrain
Saudi Arabi
Italy
Iceland
Portugal

And spent time with the civilians in these countries, as a member of the US military? Guess what, I have, an other than a couple dickbags in Spain, we were welcomed with open arms, people buying us drinks at bars and telling us how glad they are that Sadaam is out of power and no longer walking on this earth.

You sound like someone who has been chewed up and spit out by life. Go read a self help book.

142

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

I wrote a bunch of other stuff but it wouldn’t make sense for someone so conditionned

[/quote]

Conditioned? Haha, well even if that was true, is it a bad thing? No matter what you say, I have led an extremely successful life so far (Im only 25). I have done more, seen more, and accomplished more than most will do in their lifetime in the past 7 years.

So, maybe I am conditioned, but this “conditioning” leads me to being successful in almost everything I attempt (other than music type stuff, I suck at that shit). Guess what? I dont have a high GPA because I am a genius, I have a high GPA because I work my ass off to obtain it. I didnt get offered to come back to GE this summer because I wasnt successful last year when I worked with them, I got offered to come back because they obviously were pleased enough with the work I did for them to offer me another position.

So yeah, if I am conditioned, I think more people in this country could use some conditioning. However, I dont think thats the case, I think I am successful because I take control of my life and my strategic moves to ensure I am capable to being where I want to be and being the person I want to be.

143

TL;DR

The fool or the fool who follows?

144

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
I consider Gourmet Nutrition by Dr. John Berardi and self help book.

I consider Eric Cressey’s Off Season Training Manual a self help book.[/quote]

I have several of EC’s and JB’s products. I don’t consider them self help products, but if you do, that’s fine.

They don’t belong to the class of products that I’m referring to - products that are written by charlatans and bullshit artists like Anthony Robbins and Brian Tracy that have very little rhyme or reason.

JB and EC and other great authors give you CONCRETE information that can be applied by any competent person.

145

[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

you are so full of shit I can’t believe it. Is this supposed to be good or what? because I don’t know and I don’t care. Each day, each moment is new and the past, your ‘‘achievements’’ that you seem to be self-righteous about will never give you any real security and will not make everything golden for you.

I wrote a bunch of other stuff but it wouldn’t make sense for someone so conditionned

Also I dont know if you are conscious that not everywhere in the world being in the military is so well seen as in the USA. For me it makes you a tool in every sense of the word.

God I hope everyone is not a douche like you in those higher education etablishments[/quote]

Well thats fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion in this country (though I see you are from Canada) and because of people like me (and many others) who have selflessly given up a lot to serve their country, they still have that fucking right.

Youre right though, how could having a good degree, valuable military experience (as seen by employers), a good wife, a good paying job doing something I want to do, ever possibly make me happy.

Listen, I dont give a shit if you approve of it. I dont give a shit if people around the world dont like the US military. Dont you think I know that? Have you personally been overseas in multiple countries such as:

Turkey
Kuwait
Iraq
Afghanistan
Spain
Germany
Bahrain
Saudi Arabi
Italy
Iceland
Portugal

And spent time with the civilians in these countries, as a member of the US military? Guess what, I have, an other than a couple dickbags in Spain, we were welcomed with open arms, people buying us drinks at bars and telling us how glad they are that Sadaam is out of power and no longer walking on this earth.

You sound like someone who has been chewed up and spit out by life. Go read a self help book.[/quote]

This IS a lot more experience and success than most people will experience. And that’s great. God bless (seriously)!

So you clearly are NOT so ordinary (could be a good thing). I just don’t think being ordinary is a bad thing either, like most of pop culture would have us believe.

147

I don’t work at Taco Bell. I work as a registered dietitian at a personal training studio and at a fellow dietitian and chiropractor’s office doing outpatient and community nutrition counseling.

Where did I write that I disrespect other human beings? Did you not see my clear and concise statements showing one of the reasons I dislike self help authors is because I believe many of them are DISRESPECTFUL?

And your post just goes to show how disrespectul YOU are because you attempt to insult by saying that I work at Taco Bell and live in a trailer - indicating YOUR disrespect of such people. AS IF something is wrong with working at Taco Bell or living in a trailer.

Who’s the disrespectful one?

Nice try again, jackass.

It’s clear you don’t read my posts or if you do, don’t read them in full or pay attention, or have an uncanny penchant for ASSUMING and putting words in other people’s mouths.